Nathan Gardels – editor of Noema magazine – offers in the latest issue a glimpse of the latest philosopher with a theory of history, or historiography. One that I'll briefly critique soon, as it relates much to today's topic. But first...
In a previous issue, Gardels offered valuable and wise insights about America’s rising cultural divide, leading to what seems to be a rancorous illiberal democracy.
Any glance at the recent electoral stats shows that while race & gender remain important issues, they did not affect outcomes as much as a deepening polar divide between America’s social castes, especially the less-educated vs. more-educated.
Although he does not refer directly to Marx, he is talking about a schism that my parents understood... between advanced proletariate and ignorant lumpen-proletariate.
Hey, this is not another of my finger-wagging lectures, urging you all to at least understand some basic patterns that the WWII generation knew very well, when they designed the modern world. Still, you could start with Nathan's essay...
...though alas, in focusing on that divide, I'm afraid Nathan accepts an insidious premise. Recall that there is a third party to this neo-Marxian class struggle, that so many describe as simply polar.
== Start by stepping way back ==
There’s a big context, rooted in basic biology. Nearly all species have their social patterns warped by male reproductive strategies, mostly by males applying power against competing males.
(Regretable? Sure. Then let's over-rule Nature by becoming better. But that starts by looking at and understanding evolution.)
Among humans, this manifested for much more than 6000 years as feudal dominance by local gangs, then aristocracies, and then kings intent upon one central goal -- to ensure that their sons would inherit power.
Alas, large-scale history is never (and I mean never) discussed these days, even though variants of feudalism make up the entire backdrop -- the default human condition -- against which our recent Enlightenment has been a miraculous - but always threatened - experimental alternative.
The secret sauce of the Enlightenment, described by Adam Smith and established (at first crudely) by the U.S. Founders, consists of flattening the caste-order. Breaking up power into rival elites -- siccing them against each other in fair competition, and basing success far less on inheritance than other traits. That, plus the empowerment of new players... an educated meritocracy in science, commerce, civil service and even the military.
This achievement did augment with each generation – way too slowly, but incrementally – till the World War II Greatest Generation’s GI Bill and massive universities and then desegregation took it skyward, making America truly the titan of all ages and eras.
Karl Marx - whose past-oriented appraisals of class conflict were brilliant - proved to be a bitter, unimaginative dope when it came to projecting forward the rise of an educated middle class...
…which was the great innovation of the Roosevelteans, inviting the working classes into a growing and thriving middle class..
... an unexpected move that consigned Marx to the dustbin for 80 years...
... till his recent resurrection all around the globe, for reasons given below.
== There are three classes tussling here, not two ==
Which brings us to where Nathan Gardels’s missive is just plain wrong, alas. Accepting a line of propaganda that is now universally pervasive – he asserts that two – and only two – social classes are involved in a vast – socially antagonistic and polar struggle.
Are the lower middle classes (lumpenproletariat) currently at war against 'snooty fact elites'? Sure, they are! But so many post-mortems of the recent U.S. election blame the fact-professionals themselves, for behaving in patronizing ways toward working stiffs.
Meanwhile, such commentaries leave out entirely any mention of a 3rd set of players...
... the oligarchs, hedge lords, inheritance brats, sheiks and “ex”-commissars who have united in common cause. Those who stand most to benefit from dissonance within the bourgeoisie!
Elites who have been the chief beneficiaries of the last 40 years of 'supply side' and other tax grifts. Whose wealth disparities long ago surpassed those preceding the French Revolution. Many of whom are building lavish ‘prepper bunkers.' And who now see just one power center blocking their path to complete restoration of the default human system – feudal rule by inherited privilege.
(I portrayed this - in detail - in Existence.)
That obstacle to feudal restoration? The fact professionals, whose use of science, plus rule-of-law and universities – plus uplift of poor children - keeps the social flatness prescription of Adam Smith alive.
And hence, those elites lavishly subsidize a world campaign to rile up lumpenprol resentment against science, law, medicine, civil servants... and yes, now the FBI and Intel and military officer corps.
A campaign that's been so successful that the core fact of this recent election – the way all of the adults in the first Trump Administration have denounced him – is portrayed as a feature by today’s Republicans, rather than a fault. And yes, that is why none of the new Trump Appointees will ever be adults-in-the-room.
== The ultimate, ironic revival of Marx, by those who should fear him most ==
Seriously. You can't see this incitement campaign in every evening's tirades, on Fox? Or spuming across social media, where ‘drinking the tears of know-it-alls’ is the common MAGA victory howl?
A hate campaign against snobby professionals that is vastly more intensive than any snide references to race or gender?
Try actually counting the minutes spent exploiting the natural American SoA reflex (Suspicion of Authority) that I discuss in Vivid Tomorrows. A reflex which could become dangerous to oligarchs, if ever it turned on them!
And hence it must be diverted into rage and all-out war vs. all fact-using professions, from science and teaching, medicine and law and civil service to the heroes of the FBI/Intel/Military officer corps who won the Cold War and the War on terror.
To be clear, there are some professionals who have behaved stupidly, looking down their noses at the lower middle class.
Just as there are poor folks who appreciate their own university-educated kids, instead of resenting them.
And yes, there are scions of inherited wealth or billionaires (we know more than a couple!) who are smart and decent enough to side with an Enlightenment that's been very good to them.
Alas, the agitprop campaign that I described here has been brilliantly successful, including massively popular cultural works extolling feudalism as the natural human forms of governance. (e.g. Tolkien, Dune, Star Wars, Game of Thrones... and do you seriously need more examples in order to realize that it's deliberate?)
They aren’t wrong! Feudalism is the ‘natural’ form of human governance.
In fact, its near universality may be a top theory to explain the Fermi Paradox!
… A trap/filter that prevents any race from rising to the stars.
== Would I rather not have been right? ==
One of you pointed out "Paul Krugman's post today echoes Dr B's warnings about MAGA vs Science.
"But why do our new rulers want to destroy science in America? Sadly, the answer is obvious: Science has a tendency to tell you things you may not want to hear. ....
And one thing we know about MAGA types is that they are determined to hold on to their prejudices. If science conflicts with those prejudices, they don’t want to know, and they don’t want anyone else to know either."
The smartest current acolyte of Hari Seldon. Except maybe for Robert Reich. And still, they don't see the big picture.
== Stop giving the first-estate a free pass ==
And so, I conclude.
Whenever you find yourself discussing class war between the lower proletariats and snooty bourgeoisie, remember that the nomenclature – so strange and archaic-sounding, today – was quite familiar to our parents and grandparents.
Moreover, it included a third caste! The almost perpetual winners, across 600 decades. The bane on fair competition that was diagnosed by both Adam Smith and Karl Marx. And one that's deeply suicidal, as today's moguls - masturbating to the chants of flatterers - seem determined to repeat every mistake that led to tumbrels and guillotines.
With some exceptions – those few who are truly noble of mind and heart – they are right now busily resurrecting every Marxian scenario from the grave…
… or from torpor where they had been cast by the Roosevelteans.
And the rich fools are doing so by fomenting longstanding cultural grudges for – or against – modernity. The same modernity that gave them everything they have and that laid all of their golden eggs.
If anything proves the inherent stupidity of that caste – (most of them) - it is their ill-education about Marx! And what he will mean to new generations, if the Enlightenment cannot be recharged and restored enough to put old Karl back to sleep.
115 comments:
Once again we agree about the Seldonian Paradox of Marxism. When the oligarchs take seriously Marx's prediction of mass immiseration and political upheaval, then they enact semi-socialist reforms to buy off the masses. This negates Marx's predictions, as Seldon predicted. When this insurance policy works, then the oligarchs cease to take Marx's predictions seriously, so they defund and cancel the reforms, and Marx's predictions tend to come true. So from the oligarch's point of view, Marx is as true a prophet as he is false.
The logical resolution of the paradox is either a stable intermediate compromise, or a high-amplitude oscillation with period between two generation to two lifetimes. Which happens depends in part on which oligarch faction prevails: the sustainable-parasite faction, or the extremist-parasite faction.
Your triad of lumpen-proletariat, advanced proletariat, and oligarch reminds me of the triad in the Roman proverb:
"To the masses, the gods are equally true; to the philosophers, the gods are equally false; and to the magistrates, the gods are equally useful."
If lumpen = masses, advanced = philosophers, and oligarchs = magistrates, then what corresponds to the gods?
then what corresponds to the gods?
Well, religion not the entire answer, but it's obviously a subset of the thing you're asking about.
There is another divide that is becoming more and more apparent. Men versus women. Look at the number of women representatives in left of centre parties versus right of centre parties - in various countries. Australia (Last parliament Australian Labor Party: 54 women/49 men (103 total). Liberal Party of Australia: 19 women/49 men (68 total). Australian Greens: 9 women/7 men (16 total) - in the new parliament the difference will be greater still). UK: (In the current UK Parliament, the Labour party has significantly more female representation than the Conservative party. Of the 263 female MPs, 190 are Labour, while 29 are Conservative. This represents a notable disparity, with Labour having approximately 46% female MPs and the Conservatives having just under 24%.) Germany (The parties that have gained strength traditionally have the lowest proportion of women. Only 23% of CDU representatives, 25% of CSU representatives, and just 12% of AfD representatives are women. In contrast, left-leaning parties have significantly higher shares of women, with 42% for the Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands SPD, 56% for Die Linke, and 61% for Bündnis 90/Die Grünen (the Greens).) Canada - (2021 Liberals 35.6%, NPD 44% BQ 37.5% Conservatives 18.5%). USA (Women from the Democratic party make up 21.8 percent of the House, and Republican women account for 7.5 percent. Democratic women are 16 percent of the Senate, and Republican women are 9 percent.)
Everywhere left leaning parties have higher numbers of women representatives. Women understand dependencies and the need for support structures, many men don't or they want women to be financially dependent on them.
In honour of Star Wars day, and of the upcoming opening of Canadian Parliament by King Charles III, and of my ancestral lands, and of the ancient Orkney Archives, here is a montage of relevant pics:
https://bsky.app/profile/orkneylibrary.bsky.social/post/3lodfiiaefs2x
LH: After some thought, I speculate that what corresponds to the gods are racism, sexism, and religious bigotry. To the lumpen proletarians, racism, sexism, and bigotry are equally true; to the advanced proletarians, racism, sexism, and bigotry are equally false; and to the oligarchs, racism, sexism, and bigotry are equally useful.
Its never kind to choose a minority group's most important religious festival as an opportunity to (falsely) accuse them of being enemies of the people ... and yet I wake up on Star Wars day to this:
"Alas, the agitprop campaign that I described here has been brilliantly successful, including massively popular cultural works extolling feudalism as the natural human forms of governance. (e.g. Tolkien, Dune, Star Wars , Game of Thrones... and do you seriously need more examples in order to realize that it's deliberate?)"
If you chose MCU as an example - sure.
And yes, there is an element of "the messiah blessed by god, will save his people" to Star Wars, though I'd argue that is mostly because storytelling requires a hero to be its focus. To the extent that some of the heroes are "Princess" or "Queen" of some planet, for the most part, these are very clearly constitutional monarchs, in the 18th-20th century British mold, not some sort of feudal lords.
And yes, there's also an element of primitive alien tribes/kingdoms helping the heroes (because of Lucas's obsession with a false duality between spirituality and hope vs technology and fear)
But at least a third of Star Wars' material (clone wars, the three prequel movies, the intro to Foster's star 1977 star wars novelization, Rogue One, and most especially Andor* ) has been about the heroes (for the most part, either regular folks (Andor, R1), or loyalists in the military (clone wars)) fighting against dictatorship and populism to prevent the fall of their enlightenment democracy. "So This Is How Liberty Dies: With Thunderous Applause"
(and most of the rest is about resistance to that dictatorship, finishing with the final liberation achieved by "It's not a navy, sir, it's just… people")
* Going by Season 1 - I've just started Season 2 - was waiting till after my kids' exams so we could watch it together. Please no spoilers ;-)
@Paradoctor, while I see your point, I was thinking of religion in a different sense. The ability to perceive oneself and have others perceive you as a Christian in good standing seems important to the masses, entirely separate from the bigotry.
I don't think it's just religion, though. The kind of jingoistic patriotism that Trump exemplifies works as well. The important characteristic is there being any sort of in-group representing the way things should be if only those others weren't causing problems. And it's less important to actually adhere to any sort of ethic attributed to that in-group as it is to have the credentials of belonging to it.
@scidata, I like the cat with the cannon. "Bad doggie!"
I'd argue that is mostly because storytelling requires a hero to be its focus. To the extent that some of the heroes are "Princess" or "Queen" of some planet,
...
The original 1977 Star Wars was much more about everyman heroes. Luke was an 18-year-old farm kid, and had not yet been retconned into the son of a sorcerer. Han and Chewie were random smugglers who got involved by happenstance. Even Princess Leia was involved more as a senator and a rebel than as royalty.
It was only after the "I...am...your father!" line (which still might have been a lie) and its acceptance as truth in RotJ that the Force became an inescapable destiny belonging to a specific family.
How much better might the series have gone if Vader's line was actually the one that I've heard was used on-set to disguise the spoiler. "No, Luke. Obi-Wan killed your father!"
What corresponds to the gods?
The modern manifestation of the god Mammon, of course ... i.e. "The Market"
In that analogy the 'gods' are our ideals. All of them... making us pantheistic.
Larry,
I answered some of your free will comments on the previous thread. Didn't catch the onward until I got to the bottom of the page.
I'm going to try to stay on topic for a few days. though. The spin dial says 'Marx', so it's time for dead economists and political philosophers. 8)
Duncan, Alfred, Larry,
Regarding the free will discussion, Larry has interpreted my word salad accurately.
Duncan, yeah of course my thought experiment (not actually mine by the way) is not possible in reality. That's kind of the point.
Alfred, that was kind of off target. I agree, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the point I was trying to get across. I was kind of doing back flips trying to head of just that kind of misinterpretation, but didn't quite pull it off.
Nothing of what you said leaves any room for magic free will that is not bound by the same laws of nature, whatever they may be, as everything else is. That we don't know what all of those laws are, or that the answers might be fundamentally incalculable isn't relevant to that simple point.
I'd be interested if you don't agree with that. Are you holding out for some version of magic free will? Where human minds are capable of doing something not bound by the laws of nature that everything else is? And please let's not get metaphorical with the word magic. Just because we don't know what the laws are and that they might seem like magic to our current ignorant selves isn't relevant. What's relevant is whether or not human minds obey the same underlying rules as everything else, or not.
It is not fair to lump GoT in with Dune et al in glorifying feudalism. We've been over this ground before and the host here does not know what the hell he is talking about when it comes to GoT.
GoT has the Brotherhood without Banners to explain *at length* how inherited leadership is bad. The fan club took it's name from them. The series makes very clear how stupid inherited rule is.
David either did not read the stories or is maliciously, jealously attempting to undermine them. I honestly do not care enough about what he thinks to attempt to figure out which one is true.
matthew did you see what happened to Band of Brothers? I had hopes George would come through on his promise... but in vain.
Paradoctor I earlier quoted your ‘immiseration’ contribution (was it yours?)
"To the masses, the gods are equally true; to the philosophers, the gods are equally false; and to the magistrates, the gods are equally useful."
To lumpens, the lords & priests speak for the gods. And those below the lumpens are dogs to be beaten. And the bourgeoise and philosphers are agents of the devil.
Reason: “Everywhere left leaning parties have higher numbers of women representatives.” Well, sure. And mazeltov and I yearn for a future when women lead. But how does this support your men-vs.women narrative? And moreover it does not mean the left doesn’t have a continuing problem with sanctimony-driven polemical foolishness.
Kamala was a fine candidate. But her advisers, mostly women, guided the dumbest political campaign I ever saw.
And we are paying for it.
-"No, Luke. Obi-Wan killed your father!" Ooooh woulda been cool
David - I mean, women and men are not only represented differently, they are voting differently. Gender roles are a big part of the culture war. It doesn't appear in a class based narrative.
matthew:
It is not fair to lump GoT in with Dune et al in glorifying feudalism.
The overlap seems to be that both series' authors wanted to portray feudalism as a bad thing, and both series' fans seemed instead to revel in it.
To me, that says that it's very hard to lead an audience to feel differently about the story than the protagonists are portrayed as feeling. I do that with Ayn Rand, but it's most certainly not her intent.
Dr Brin:
did you see what happened to Band of Brothers?
I did not watch the miniseries to the end. I gave up somewhere in season 7, when the sense of geography was so abandoned that Daenerys was able to ride to the rescue on her dragons to a location north of the wall in about ten minutes.
So I didn't see how anything finally ended up, but my sense was that the last two seasons were not taken from George RR Martin books, and I'm not sure how much influence he had over the plots. The change in the writing was as obvious as the seasons of West Wing that weren't written by Aaron Sorkin.
Just say No to the magic free will concept. That's how I see it. Bunch of old-time theist malarkey. Even modern theists are backing away from it.
I suspect that all of us sitting around a bar would drink to the same proposals after everyone got done defining their terms. Might take all night to get to that point, though. 8)
reason,
I'm not so sure of that. Have women historically been treated as equals? Are they not of a different 'class'?
Sure... noble women weren't peasant women, but neither were they exactly free in much of Europe... and a lot of other places. Marx might not have chimed in on the topic, but 'class' can be a flexible concept.
Yet another lesson in the meaning of 'adaptation' as applied to screenplays.
Some topics are difficult to render on TV and in movies. There isn't enough time unless that topic IS the central theme. AND the productions have to sell eyeballs.
I'd love to see a production (TV or movie) focused on the bourgeois enrichment of the world. How it came about is one of the historical wonders of the world. I don't know how to sell it, though.
Yet another lesson in the meaning of 'adaptation' as applied to screenplays.
The first 5 or 6 seasons of GoT were adaptations of novels. The last two were not. From what I heard, the producers of the miniseries expected Martin to provide more books by the time they got there, and he did not, so they had to wing it.
Alfred Differ:
Have women historically been treated as equals? Are they not of a different 'class'?
Sure... noble women weren't peasant women, but neither were they exactly free in much of Europe...
Your later sentence is to the point. Men vs women might seem like a class struggle, but "women" as a set are not of a single class. The wants and needs of ladies are different from those of drudges, and often at cross purposes to each other. Many upper class women are protective of their husbands' privileges', which accrue to themselves as well.
At least remove, gender can't be a hereditary class in the same way that race, religion, wealth, or poverty have been historically. It is not the case that the child of a man will be a man or that the child of a woman is a woman.
Alfred Differ: I'd love to see a production (TV or movie) focused on the bourgeois enrichment of the world
There is a good book, and it has been developed into a screenplay, but never made into a movie. I read it because I was fascinated by Steven Johnson's coffeehouse Enlightenment talks. Much of the trading intrigue, and Jewish-Catholic interplay were over my head, but that's the usual case for me with any serious novel :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coffee_Trader
There's an excellent show on Netflix, 'Bodies', which plays with a murder mystery, time travel, and the notion of free will, in the sense of 'Can you change what already will happen?'
"Obi-wan killed your father'... well, it's not wrong, is it? (He certainly had a good go!)
My take is that Vader was a clone of Anakin who got a bit confused by the memory uploads after killing him. It allows the falling angel to meet the rising ape.
Glorious Leader's latest flight of fancy has him doffing the papal raiment for a more rugged depiction of a heroic Jedi Knight, wielding a... red lightsabre!?
Musk-ovites vote to create a company town of 'Starbase'. This puts me in mind of Niven and Pournelle's "Oath of Fealty" (been a while since I read that one, so I'll need to check for TASAT worthiness)
Futures trading is seriously risky business. 8)
How did you hear of it being adapted to a screenplay?
Couldn't find the page I heard of it, but here's a substack by the author:
https://danielmartineckhart.substack.com/p/the-coffee-trader-the-joys-of-first
"Looking across all that time, till the near-present, I invite you to find any exceptions [to male dominated feudalism] among societies with agriculture."
Challenge accepted: "DNA study identifies iron age matrilocal society". These were the 'Durotriges', a group of Celts in pre-Roman Britain, and they apparently made the Romans do a double take when they found out it was the women who were in power.
One swallow does not a Summer make, but you did say *any* exception.
Hi Dr Brin
One of your suggestions is to take a climate skeptic (by now there are no actual skeptics just deniers) to the shore and measure the Ph
This article about "measuring Ph - and lies to children"
https://substack.com/home/post/p-162237869
Was a complete eye opener to me!!!
Sounds a bit like any episode of Dr. Who.
It's a bit like so many people don't understand that The Police song "Every Breath You Take" is meant to be creepy and condemn Sting for it.
A good deal more rigorously plotted.
Tony Fisk:
"Obi-wan killed your father'... well, it's not wrong, is it? (He certainly had a good go!)
I guess if you count attempted murder. But Vader saying that instead of the other thing at that moment conveys a different thing, regardless.
My take is that Vader was a clone of Anakin who got a bit confused by the memory uploads after killing him. It allows the falling angel to meet the rising ape.
I'd have much preferred if no familial link had been established between Luke and Vader at all, let alone bringing in Leia too.
Still, the family thing does give a new and more sinister meaning to Leia's plea to Obi-Wan Kenobi: "You fought with my father in the Clone Wars." Emphasis mine.
Glorious Leader's latest flight of fancy has him doffing the papal raiment ...
I know this isn't a Cerebus-related group, but Trump as pope has overtones of Dave Sim's "Church and State" arc.
Musk-ovites vote to create a company town of 'Starbase'...
Thanks for using "Musk-ovites". :)
A scene wherein the First Felon is shown draft plans for a new and expanded Alcatraz:
FF: It reminds me of Mar-a-Lago.
Officer: Why yes, sir. Yes, it does!
For something totally different, this past weekend's Kentucky Derby brought to mind the first time I watched the 1973 Belmont Stakes, about 12 years ago. I'd never watched horse racing before, and yet Secretariat put on such an amazing performance it brought tears to my eyes.
In that race he won by 31 lengths "going away", meaning that he was still increasing the gap at the time he crossed the finish line. That margin of victory is still a record. The time he set, is still the record.
Said his jockey, "He is smart. I think he knew he was going 1-1/2 miles. I never pushed him."
Said the editor of a big-time horse racing magazine, "Two twenty-four flat! I don't believe it. Impossible. But I saw it. I can't breathe. He won by a sixteenth of a mile! I saw it. I have to believe it."
The three biggest races in US horse racing are the Kentucky Derby, The Preakness and the Belmont Stakes, collectively called the Triple Crown. In 1973 Secretariat was the first horse to win the Triple Crown in 25 years. The times he set in all three of those Triple Crown races in 1973 are still unbeaten records.
Interestingly, every single one of the 19 horses in this past weekend's Kentucky Derby are descendants of Secretariat. It should be no surprise at all that any given top level race horse would have one of history's great race horses in its lineage, but I think it says a lot about how big of an impact Secretariat had on the sport that all 19 horses in the 2025 KD do.
Larry,
'Church and State' may not be where I found this exchange, but it's relevant to this moment in history..(paraphrased due to interposition of the mists of time)
Elf (Maybe): "so how much gold is enough?"
Cerebus (having gained power): "All of it."
Pappenheimer
P.S. Tony, I recall at least one society that is agricultural, matrilineal and internally non feudal, although it has had to adapt itself to Islam - the Minangkabau of Sumatra. There are exceptions to nearly every rule within humanity.
Cerebus (having gained power): "All of it."
I believe that IS "Church and State". Cerebus had been prime minister of Iest, and then was made pope, which turned into a real "Do you still think you can control them?" moment.
Re This: DC's solution would be to 'universe' my graphic novel THE LIFE EATERS... which they published! Which would be utterly cinematic and blkow Marvel out of the water! Of course the original Hugo runner-up novella WAS entitled "Thor Meets Captain America."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPV3huvxDy8
Darrell that was a fun post.
They called out what I've noticed on my own, that the DCU movies (except for Wonder Woman) forgot to include fun. Or rather, made a point of not doing so.
I'm reminded of a magazine Marvel published in the 80s that had an article about what a Marvel Batman might be like. One line I still remember is, "That's right, Bruce Wayne was bitten by a radioactive bat."
Apparently rumpT is now gargling about putting a tariff on foreign movies or movies shot in other countries? So, instead of Tunisia and Tikal, Lucas would have had to film Star Wars in Arizona, or downtown Burbank? How in the Eight Hells would that tariff work anyway?
Pappenheimer
P.S. the 1st Wonder Woman movie was glorious nonsense, particularly the Over the Top sequence. I had to sit on my inner military historian all the way through the movie, though...for just one thing, you don't send a ship out at night to follow an aircraft. (I know, I know, there's a Rope of Truth and an Island of immortal Amazons and I'm kvetching about search radii...)
One thing I didn't understand is why they placed Wonder Woman's initial mission to the mainland in WWI instead of the WWII that it has always been a part of. I wonder if they felt that a WWII Wonder Woman would be too much like Marvel's Captain America.
rumpT is now gargling about putting a tariff on foreign movies or movies shot in other countries
He's pushing the limits of what can be claimed as a threat to national security with a straight face.
And I thought right-wingers hated Hollywood.
Both the Duniverse and Westeros suck as places to live.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsSKFlk8oEo
Mark Hamill Didn’t Tell Carrie Fisher the Big Star Wars Secret | The Graham Norton Show
That's why I doubt those stories of women remembering past lives via reincarnation. Everyone seems to remember being an empress or queen of the Nile. Nobody remembers being a chambermaid or laundress.
@ Darrell E.
"For something totally different, this past weekend's Kentucky Derby ..."
Not completely different. That's feudalism in action -- lineages of the great lord Secretariat and his harems, still dominating horse-racing. If it's good for horses, why not humans?
Heh. I'd thought of saying something nostalgic about Northern Dancer, but exactly that same thought crossed my mind.
The growing contempt for hard work and expertise is especially frustrating because we bicycle and ski mechanics seem to be immune. One of the "lumpen proletariat" who thinks vaccines have 5G connected nanobots will accept any recommendation I make. They will call any citation of peer reviewed scientific literature as an "appeal to authority falllacy" while accepting that I need to look up torque specs.
Celt,
At least George Patton admitted to being just a foot soldier - hoplite, legionnaire, etc., during some of his previous lives, but of course was a knight during the Hundred Years' War. Well, in over a century's worth of intermittent combat, he had at least a couple of shots at rank...
Pappenheimer
And this is our future, if we don't turn it around...
"European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announced on Monday a 500 million euros ($566.6 million) incentive package to boost European science research, as Europe hopes to lure top U.S. scientists disgruntled with President Donald Trump.
"Science is an investment – and we need to offer the right incentives. This is why I can announce that we will put forward a new 500 million euros package for 2025-2027 to make Europe a magnet for researchers," she said at a speech in Paris alongside French President Emmanuel Macron."
Pappenheimer
The (Self appointed0 important people in the US seem to have decided we have enough science already. By the time the knowledge deficit becomes obvious, we'll be behind by a lot. Possibly enough to threaten the privilege and authority of TPTB.
To all above, my thanks for your additions to the pantheon. So now they are: racism, sexism, bigotry, cultism, jingoism, and materialism. Any other additions?
They are all, to the lumpen MAGAs, equally true, to the fact-based class, equally false, and to the oligarchs, equally useful.
Because humans aren't houyhnhnms?
I guess if you were actually breeding for intelligent, moral humans, that might work, but a review of human history suggests that you usually wind up with Habsburgs.
Pappenheimer
Seems to work moderately well if you want to breed pretty actors and actresses for Hollywood.
The difference (of course) is our brains. Interbreed the smartest of us and we (continue to) walk the razor edge. Some of us are broken right from the start. It doesn't take a lot of damage to do it. But OMG(!) the advantages gains when the child isn't broken!
If it's good for horses, why not humans?
In the sense of "Good football players sire good football players," it might well work.
Feudalism is something different. More like "Good football players get to kill the other good football players, so that only their sons can win." That's a different thing, in fact the opposite thing.
Our fine libertarian friend tends to contradict himself on an increasing basis, as the following 'internet famous' AZ & Brainy quotes tend to show:
"Life is not fair... Anyone who says it is, or even that it ought to be, is a fool or worse." ~ David Brin
"The Enlightenment diamond-shaped society, with a huge, prosperous, socially-mobile, empowered middle class, is by far the most productive and creative system the world has ever seen. ~ David Brin
"You don't have conversations with microprocessors. You tell them what to do, then helplessly watch the disaster when they take you literally!" ~ David Brin
"Only people with full stomachs become environmentalists." ~ David Brin
Yet, interestingly enough, all these words come from a man who (1) pushes for socialism, marxism & a 'flat-level-equal' playing field because he believes in 'fairness', (2) lionizes the 'diamond-shaped middle class' even though his marxism requires middle class & bourgeoisie destruction, (3) equivocates between artificial intelligence & incipient godliness and (4) equates climate & environmental denialism with malicious stupidity.
We are like horses in the sense that we are all born & bred with certain innate capabilities, putting to lie the great Equality Falsehood of our age.
Whether Palestinian, Israeli or otherwise, the various breeds of humanity are neither 'equal' nor 'interchangeable' because we are all different assuming that such a thing as 'diversity' actually exists, as it's a tautological category error to claim that items are simultaneously 'different & the same'.
Best
Stark, jibbering loony, if articulate. He takes things spoken by CHARACTERS in stories and claims to see contradictions. But the 'pushes marxism'?.... oog, you got me. I actually read it and only 60% to guffaw.
These characters who (1) think of 'fairness' as a natural right, (2) equate Smithian 'socialism' with the much less cuddly Marxist variety, (3) confuse the rise of a prosperous middle class with Karl_M's hatred thereof and (4) spurn the human demigod in favour of an artificial AI divinity, are they in the room with our host right now?
Do they speak in his voice? Are they donned & doffed like hats? And do they convey any information but entertainment?
Our fine host exercises an exceptionally slippery command of the english language.
Best
1. Entropy-increase is a law of nature.
2. Life is low-entropy matter.
By locum logic, this is a contradiction, like the unfairness of existence plus the political virtue of fairness. How to resolve the contradiction? Simple, though not easy:
3. Life is a struggle.
1. I am not you and you are not me.
2. We are equally human.
By locum logic, this is a contradiction. This too has a simple - though not easy - resolution:
3. Diversity is the 'variation' part of evolution. Species and societies without diversity go extinct.
Or Earth has an exterior energy source that drives life to low entropy states while adhering to the overall ever increasing entropy of the universe
...Earth has an exterior energy source ...
Back on the old Cerebus list, one of the religious right-wingers argued that evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics. When I countered that the sun is inputting energy into the system, he actually thought he had a mike-drop of an unanswerable response with, "What if the sun is included in the system?"
By that logic, I suppose a refrigerator violates the second law as well.
Larry,
I think I wrote this before, but I had the same argument about thermodynamics and evolution with my station commander in the wee AM of the weather station, just the 2 of us, high pressure*, 3+ decades ago. Guy was a regular AF Captain with a meteorology degree from U Penn. I'm sure the 'point' is still floating around in the fundy punchbowl, because they don't need to update their arguments. Heck, another USAF Cpt. pulled the 'universe was created old' argument that he seems to have come up with independently of Philip Gosse, who published it under the title 'Omphalos' in 1857; in order for a fully functional universe to be created, it would have to incorporate traces of a precreation history that did not exist - i.e., Adam's navel, evidence of the birth he never went through. Gosse's thesis was not well received even in 1857, because the corollary is 'God is lying to us'.
Many paintings of Adam, iirc, avoid showing his navel, because of this theological question - assuming an inerrant Old Testament, did he have one?
*'high pressure' here means in weatherspeak 'not much weather to worry about'
Pappenheimer
Dr. Brin,
Dipped a toe in the Loc and - you are accused of Marxism? Has Marx's ghost stopped laughing yet?
I am reminded of Anthony Burgess's Malayan Trilogy, where a British prep school teacher in the waning days of the British rule (in fact, during the Emergency) is accused of being a communist by political enemies, and bursts out "we were ALL communists in our school days! It doesn't mean anything!" Growing up in British stratified, self-satisfied semi-aristocracy meant that if you had an ounce of humanity you were at least a socialist.
Which allowed the KGB a fertile recruiting ground, it is true. I wondered, when I was the only American (then in high school) to go to see a Soviet film about Stalingrad* at the Soviet Embassy in Kuala Lumpur, why the military attache himself came out to talk to me afterwards. I mentioned the meeting to the USAF recruiter when I volunteered but he apparently forgot to put that bit, and the one time I smoked pot, on the form.
*pretty good movie, actually, showing the murderous casualty rate on both sides and the despair and disillusionment of the survivors (there was a scene where a commissar ventured out to the front lines and distributed medals to all the men left in a unit - who then tossed all the medals in their samovar. ("They make the tea taste better.")
Pappenheimer
Pappenheimer there were no battle scenes like those made by commie film-makers. The Soviet WAR & PEACE Battle of Borodino was incredible! Esp since they did not mind killing real horses. And some men died, too.
In HG Wells's THE SLEEPER WAKES, there is an early scene in which the protagonist, losing his love interest to a smooth aristo, tries to frighten the lord by confronting him: "Sir, I'll have you know I am a socialist!"
To which the aristo yawns: "Isn't everybody, now?"
Reminds me of the duel between the Sandman's Morpheus and the demon Choronzon.
M: "I am a world. Space floating. Life nurturing."
C: "I am a nova. All exploding. Planet cremating."
M: "I am the Universe. All things encompassing. All life embracing."
C: "I am anti-life. The Beast of Judgment. I am the dark at the end of everything. The end of universes, gods, worlds, of everything. Sss, and what will you be then, Dreamlord?"
:
:
M: "...I am hope."
(and with that, instead of an incandescent ball of gas, the Sun rose once more.)
Pappenheimer:
in order for a fully functional universe to be created, it would have to incorporate traces of a precreation history that did not exist - i.e., Adam's navel, evidence of the birth he never went through.
It's a distinction without a difference.
Assuming for argument's sake that 6000 years ago, God created a universe with initial conditions such that it appeared in every way to have had a 15 billion year history, I would say that for all practical purposes in trying to extrapolate natural laws and make predictions, one might as well assume that 15 billion year history to be correct.
Let's bring it down to the personal. You can't prove that God didn't create you just this morning with fake memories of a past. But so what? What's the point of even considering such a possibility when everything that happens going forward aligns with the fake memories? You live in the house you remember buying, the wife you remember marrying is lying next to you, etc.
Many years ago, the gov used to make a lot of vignettes about Canadian history. My favourite had a 19th century geologist exploring the badlands of Alberta. He was brushing the dust and rubble off some patterns in the rock. He suddenly realized that they were six-inch teeth. Imagine the frantic re-interpreting of scripture that ensued.
Could it all be artificially created? Even our memories be too?
Possibly, but discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin would be more rational. And follow the money/power trail of those who promote the 'fake universe' narrative.
You two REALLY ought to read my story CHRYSALIS! In any event, if God clearly WANTS us to believe it's 13.8 billion years, who am I to disobey?
Someone posted the _whole_ content of Startide Rising online:
https://studylib.net/doc/7610438/david-brin---uplift-war-2. Any advice how to get it down? If you guys keep one eye cracked for such piracy, I'd welcome the help... thx
From what I see about that site, it is all about getting around copyrights. I'd bet 99% of what is there is in violation. Tracking down who hosts them would have to happen to do anything, but they'd probably just move their content elsewhere.
They make money offering what isn't theirs then harvest the information people provide to get those freebies. I don't recommend doing anything that draws more attention to them. That pig would like the mud.
Nothing violates the second law because there is no way TO violate it.
Entropy is a measure of how many indistinguishable microstates lead to the same observable macrostate. Lots of different arrangements of helium inside a kiddie balloon lead to the same internal pressure and the measurable diameter. The balloon will usually be found in a macrostate with the most microstates OR be found moving in that direction.
It's just math. It's the frequentist's meaning of probability.
--------
Open systems sip at a nearby energy gradient to shift (locally) to unlikely (local) macrostates. Folks here know this, but it takes the stat-mech definition of entropy to get it across to the general public. That definition enables them to think in terms of dice and coins as the core metaphor for probabilities.
Except that, if God created your memories, then you had no say in what they are. So you did not choose your past actions; you did not have your past feelings; the "you" that is you was created whole cloth by God.
So what happened to free will? And who is responsible for your sins from your past? :)
Know anybody with a Ransomware program? Bwahahaha! ;)
@A.F. Rey,
Hmmmm, I hadn't thought about it that way. Like the moral implications of, "What if the Holocaust never actually happened, but the world was created yesterday as if that's what happened 80 years ago?"
No practical difference, but a huge moral one, eh?
"With the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day" (2 Peter 3:8). IOW God does not experience time the same way we do. So from His point of view maybe it was only six days.
Habemus papam!
Pope Leo XIV is the first American pope.
Real name is Robert so they are calling him Pope Bob.
He's on the progressive side on many social issues while remaining conservative on church doctrine
A good way to bridge both wings of the church.
Also an insider (Vatican prevost) and an outsider (missionary to Peru)
Good choice with broad appeal.
He's been very critical of vice president JD Vance, Trump's immigration policies and MAGA already hates him.
Very strong on workers rights and immigrants (took the name Leo from Leo XIII who promoted labor unions). In favor of letting divorced Catholics have communion. Lukewarm on gay marriage.
"He also supported Pope Francis's stance on allowing divorced and remarried Catholics to receive Holy Communion. However, he only showed mild support for Francis allowing priests to bless same-sex couples."
His Twitter feeds show a complete and critical rejection of Trump and MAGA.
Leo XIV could do to Trump what John Paul II did to the Soviet block.
This could be fun
And he's a Cubbies fan:
https://ftw.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2025/05/08/pope-leo-chicago-cubs-fan-white-sox-robert-prevost/83516795007/
And while that has led to so many sports jokes and talk about bets that weren't made on him, there's a very important question fans are asking: is he a fan of the Chicago Cubs or the Chicago White Sox? He's actually from Dolton, which is on the south side. That should mean he's a Chicago White Sox fan, right? Turns out ... no! Per a report, he's a Cubs fan. If you were wondering that? Now you know the answer.
So will this affect the Cubs chances of reaching the World Series this year? :)
That’s why theologians don’t think much of the idea. It undermines pretty much every ethical lesson.
Al Capope?
(Sorry, had to get that out of my system)
Chicago now has the Malort Pope.
He's been very critical of vice president JD Vance, Trump's immigration policies and MAGA already hates him.
I know MAGA probably isn't overwhelmingly Catholic, but I'm amused by the way religious conservatives are all about the supremacy of religious doctrine until they disagree with it.
In favor of letting divorced Catholics have communion. Lukewarm on gay marriage.
That's probably as good as progressives can expect at this moment, and better than most possibilities. There could have been a conservative reaction against Francis just as there was here in the US against Obama, and it could have lasted a long time.
His Twitter feeds show a complete and critical rejection of Trump and MAGA.
I'm telling ya, Trump has managed to unite the world (all exceptions duly noted) against his insanity. To malign Homer Simpson: "Awww...it'd be funnier if they were uniting against a country that wasn't mine."
Leo XIV could do to Trump what John Paul II did to the Soviet block.
Woo hoo!
And while that has led to so many sports jokes and talk about bets that weren't made on him,
Heh. Just now, my wife came in and said, "An American pope wasn't on my BINGO card."
He's actually from Dolton, which is on the south side. That should mean he's a Chicago White Sox fan, right? Turns out ... no! Per a report, he's a Cubs fan.
In my youth and before, north-siders were supposed to be Cubs fans and south-siders liked the White Sox. But that was before people were as mobile as they are today. And the correlation doesn't seem to extend to whether one lives in a north or south suburb.
I could have seen him really shake things up by being a Cardinals fan.
Since the new pope is American and at least somewhat on the tolerant side, I have to believe the choice was somewhat influenced by reaction to Donald Trump, just as the Canadian and Australian elections were.
Since the average age of death of a pope is 79 and rumpT is 78 years 10 months and some-odd days old, I was almost cool with him becoming pope. Unfortunately the Law of Averages is more like a guideline.
Pappenheimer
Alfred hit the nail on the head, and Gosse's thesis was roundly dismissed, exactly because of the presumption that the God can't be dealing from the bottom of the deck and remain a deity worthy of worship. Which marks me as not a Calvinist, I guess. If I were a believer, I'd be a Pelagian - no catechism, no original sin, no predestination, every person has the free will to mess over or help out their fellow mortals - and that's what counts. The church really hated Pelagius.
Pappenheimer
Also the average includes those who died before his current age. If you condition the age of death on having already survived to his current age it will be somewhat later.
Actually, American bishops (many of them) have a reputation for doctrinal conservatism, in a few cases extreme.
But not this guy, so... intended to correct that?
I said:
I could have seen him really shake things up by being a Cardinals fan.
I must have been out of it last night, because I totally missed the inherent pun in that statement. That makes it funnier than I intended.
Once a thing is seen, it can't be un-seen.
Heard on Stephanie Miller's show:
"Donald Trump could still be pope if only Mike Pence had the courage."
@Larry Hart
I'm still laughing at the terms the Google spits out when queried on "Malort"
Possibly the worst drink ever, with hints of
ear wax, desperation, grapefruit, burned rubber, and heartbreak
I miss Chicago a lot, that city has spunk. Go Sox, Go Leo.
I love that Leo XIV's brother held a press conference to clarify that Leo is a Sox fan, not a Cubs fan. The most Chicago thing ever.
Our timeline may be dark but there are moments like this one that show the universe has a sense of whimsy.
As you may have guessed, the Chicago connection led to a boatload of coverage on the local tv news. WGN spend the first 20 minutes or so of the nightly newscast on pope-related stories.
I love the fact that local people who knew him when refer to the pope as "Bob".
I also love the fact that the coverage totally pre-empted anything about Trump's wonderful trade deal with the UK.
Time to bring deep dish pizzas to Italy?
I do appreciate that a Chicago hot dog place, The Weiners Circle, posted this in response to Leo's elevation:
"Canes nostros ipse comedit" - Latin for "he has eaten our dogs."
Pappenheimer
Sadly, the rumor that the pope was a jazz trombone player appears to be completely false.
Dr Brin:
Actually, American bishops (many of them) have a reputation for doctrinal conservatism, i
Yes, the selection of an American pope could have gone in a Trumpy direction. I'm sure the fact that it did not was intentional.
I used to think that the reason for not choosing American popes was because America was too secular, or at least not Catholic enough. However, every reporter and his brother has been mentioning that the choice of an American was usually avoided because "America already has so much power on the world stage." Maybe this selection was to indicate that that is no longer true?
https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3looa7mqf5t2f
REPORTER: But we're seeing as a result that ports here in the US, the traffic has really slowed and now thousands of dockworkers are truck drivers are worried about their jobs
TRUMP: That means we lose less money ... when you say it slowed down, that's a good thing, not a bad thing
Von Schitznpantz seems to really believe that buying food at the grocery store is "losing money", and that if there was no food to buy, we'd all save so much money we'd be rich.
We live in the stupidest timeline.
Yep.
Remember though that he has a record of buying things and then not paying for them. His contractors have had to sue him a number of times. Paying ANYBODY probably feels like losing money to him. Amplify how we feel about it (no one likes forking over cash for what we want) and we might be close.
I doubt it. This kinda feels like when Obama got his Peace Prize way too early. It was an obvious signal meant to influence. Who better to reach US Catholics than a US Cardinal being chosen?
no one likes forking over cash for what we want
At the level of the id, yes. But most of us understand that that's the whole point of money. We might complain that we think someone is overcharging us, but most rational adults don't think the stores we buy stuff at should be giving it away for free. The reason we like having money is because of the goods and services we can trade it for.
The logical conclusion of Von Schitzenpantz's economic theory is that we'll all save money by not having anything to buy.
...and there's a name for Trump's wet dream of hoards of currency chasing little or no goods. Inflation. Hyperinflation, even.
Republicans are now demanding that the American populace suffer through some short-term pain in order to usher in...inflation!
Heard on Stephanie Miller's radio show:
"Judge Jeanine, Brett Kavanaugh, and Pete Hegseth walk into a bar.
[comedic beat]
That's it. That's the whole joke."
A military parade for a repeated draft dodger.
Are you guys Great Again yet?
Scidata:
"...The United States will begin admitting the first group of White South African refugees next week, whom President Trump’s administration has argued have been victims of “racial discrimination....”
Because we had such a shortage of racists to begin with. Yes, have truly become great again.
Pappenheimer
Yep. Id level objection. Free markets are odd that way. We know they work but no one really likes how they do it. Even the folks who understand the ideal version can see that the objections lead to a need to regulate.
Yep. Mission accomplished.
Putting the ‘bully’ in bully pulpit.
admitting the first group of White South African refugees next week...
Wait until they start eating the dogs and cats.
Have any of you read NEW AMERICA by Poul Anderson? It is, as usual for Poul, a great yarn by the best storyteller I ever knew. Despite the fact that I found some of his political leanings, well, a bit...bad. You'll see what I mean at the start of this novel where he does pose a thought provoking image of a USA gone so multi-racial/ woke (and this was written in the 60s) that half a million old-fashioned (implicitly mostly-white) USA-ans demand to be given use of the (non-FTL) starships to emigrate to a new world.
Let me be clear that Poul & Karen weren't racists. And it truly is a fine yarn. And yu can feel twinges in both directions without ever questioning which side we're on in this version of Heinlein's CRAZY YEARS.
Just bought New America on Kindle - its apparently the second book - the first was Orbit Unlimited - it's a shame Poul is gone I would have loved to ask him why he called one of his villains "The Cairncross"
I thought Orbit Unlimited was the 1st half of NEW AMERICA. IT'S ORBIT that starts with some errily prescient woke resentment
onward
onward
You're not making any sense.
Post a Comment