I generally try to alternate politics and futurism with postings on science or scifi. But, well, these are fraught times and there will be no more science if oligarchy + know-nothing idiocrats triumph to restore 6000 years of lobotomizing feudalism, as Robert Heinlein so well warned.
And so, we'll have a 2nd political posting in a row. Starting first: might this be your most-influential political act?
Another small-donor opportunity that's very timely (and a reason to rush out this blog), has to do with the imminent choice of Kamala Harris's running mate. Right now Democratic Party mavens are measuring how many new, individual donors each of the VP front runners are bringing in. Thus you can influence her choice, simply by being a $5 New Donor for any of the top candidates.
Finally, two best things. (1) Former Rep. Adam Kinzinger (remember the heroic sane Republican?) is helping run a campaign to recruit poll workers - folks who must remain scrupulously non-partisan, but who make a tremendous difference by ensuring an honest process and honest count. Please consider it and spread word to others. This is vital!
And what's #2? Well. The Union side in this latest, dangerous phase of the 250 year U.S. Civil War is badly lacking in one thing. Tactical imagination. Alas.
== Can Vance... um... dance? ==
Ah, JD Vance is turning into an albatross around the neck of ol' Two Scoops. (See two fun songs linked below.) Polls show JDV with crushing negatives. So why did DT pick him? Trump said just days after: "The guy loves me! Nobody loves me more!" And yes, flattery is always the key to his heart. (It's how he 'fell in love' with murder-commie Kim Jong Un and with "ex" commissar Vlad Putin.)
Alas, no one uses that angle, or any other Polemical Judo.
Well, look at it from the Don's point of view. He needed a Veep who would be slavishly devoted and reliably dependent. (I mentioned the possibility of ensuring that with blackmail kompromat: "I'll make you veep after you do a photo shoot with a donkey. I'll keep the negatives safe.") And it must be strong enough kompromat to ensure JDV will drop out - on any excuse, should DT ever demand it. (As seems increasingly likely.)
Also, by DT's logic, having someone who is unappealing to the oligarchs (except Thiel & pals) is now a big plus. Especially since he knows that some oligarchs are having second thoughts about Donald Trump! Those educated enough to know what happened in 1933 Germany. Especially the Night of the Long Knives, when Hitler no longer needed the Prussian aristocrats. ("So, you still think you can control him?")
== But what about the extremum? ==
Of course none of that works in case of death. Nor would Vance even likely be the fallback GOP nominee, if Trump went away! At any time that Trump vanished from the scene, even a week before the election - (and I'm on record relentlessly begging the Secret Service to do well!) - I expect McConnell etc. would reconvene a virtual RNC, so the delegates might pick someone other than Vance. And if so, what then?
Okay, okay. So now we're in sci fi/Grisham thriller territory, sure. Still....
So, it's only when Trump exits after that, when Peter Thiel might get his dream puppet. And he would eventually, since DT's health will likely fade - even naturally - long before 2028. So... patience?
Okay, right. Again, am I writing semi-scifi thriller plots, rather than plausible political commentary?
Anyway, here are those Vance songs. enjoy.
A nice recent Snark by some talented young musicians...
But this one is just too classic...
== Our heroes on the Realist Left ==
Not all ‘woke progressives’ are crazy, bent on betraying the blue coalition. There are pragmatist-leftist heroes! In fact, Bernie, Liz, Stacey, Jaime, Hakeem and others seem to be spending half their time herding frippy sanctimony ‘cats’ back into the only coalition that can possibly save civilization. Reminding dopes of the wonderful miracle year – 2021-22 – when Pelosi and Biden got passed a whole raft of terrific legislation that – among other things – led to today’s supercharged revival of U.S. manufacturing, skyrocketing installation of sustainables, raising tens of millions out of poverty, and restoring our alliances, driving Vlad the im-putiner crazy.
(Dare your flake-friends to name and describe those bills, before they rave about "They're all the same!") See just some of those bills here. And they created a floor from which a new Congress can do more. Bernie and Liz know that! Do you?
Favorite among those? Future president AOC. She may be to my left a bit, but we love her! And more so when she shredded Klan Mom Marjorie Taylor Greene.
== Final rant! WHY won't anyone make these things explicitly clear? ==
Across the US and a more often than not in Red States, Grand juries (mostly white retirees) have indicted -- and other juries convicted -- roughly 40 to 60 x as many high republicans as democrats. I do not exaggerate! And the paroxysms/excuses to explain this tie the Foxites in knots.
Either it is a perfect, alien-level conspiracy involving hundreds of thousands, even millions, of skilled and reciprocally competitive professionals... a conspiracy that has never leaked a scintilla of hard evidence, without even one defector who accepted lavish 'whistle blower rewards' offered by Fox, Kochs etc...
...or else...
... or else today's GOP is a massive (and partly Kremlin-run) criminal gang.
Look at the images above. Let's wager $$$ stakes over ANY of these monsters. But even worse than those devil-traitors Bannon and Flynn? OMG Manafort. DT's twice campaign manager and devoted Putin stooge and so much more.
Oh, let's also bet on ratios of child predators?
Or wager over which party has better outcomes? Economically, or in regards fiscal prudence or any other metric of decent governance? Never once has one of the fanatic cowards stepped up with atty-escrowed $$$ wager stakes. For all their macho preenings, they are not men.
And alas, none of the good guys will ever use this never-miss method. Alack.
253 comments:
1 – 200 of 253 Newer› Newest»This particular posting by Anton Petrov is especially interesting, re the impudent proposal that complex (multicellular) life forms had a brief start during an oxygenization event around 2.1 billion years ago, only to die off, leaving only single celled lif till at least a billion years later, when it got rolling again. Naturally, it seems slim... though without any killer refutations, so far. And... well... interesting!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzGhU6e33lE
For parody songs, no one beats the unofficial musician laureate of Stephanie Miller's show, Rocky Mountain Mike.
Kamala (Parody of "Shambala" by Three Dog Night) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL_yjJPQdU4
I'm So Indicted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDk4cf7Om90
Obama Stay--an oldie which was played on President Obama's last morning in office:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRBtPpHljp4
General link to Rocky Mountain Mike songs:
https://www.youtube.com/@rockymountainmike3133/videos
OK, I'm sorry, I've mentioned this before, but I really must insist this time: That last picture is not Paul Manafort. It's Viktor Yanukovych. In fact, just do a Google Images search for "Yanukovych Putin", and you'll find that exact image, along with many others from the same event. Yanukovych maybe looks a little like Manafort, but not that much, really. (And if you do a Google Images search for "Manafort Putin", the first result is also these two guys together, from the NYT -- but the caption identifies the one on the left as Yanukovych.)
Advice:
When you make political contributions, make SURE you aren't duped into becoming a "sustaining" donor. If you want to make a one-time donation, check to be sure there are no extra check-boxes selected.
A close relative has been dealing with DOZENS of unwanted charges. ActBlue does not make it easy to deal with their clients.
Now, I must think of Flying-Saucer-like creatures with a pulsating central body mass and strong peripheral muscle-like tissue that can help it to swim and burrow through stone ... and wrap themselves around and eat you.
Ah. Gotcha William. I'll fix it. Thank you for the CITOKATE. Though I invite others to opine whether Manafort and Yanukovich look a LOT alike?
Der Oger,
There is the Xorn - though that monster only eats gems and precious metals. Peasants are safe, but nobility might be in trouble if they don't divest themselves.
Pappenheimer
P.S. There's also been some e-conversation about the resemblance of Steven Miller to Jpseph Goebbels. Probably just the writers being sloppy again.
In the last thread, glad to see Loc has returned: an educated recalcitrant is preferable to the other sort.
But would he wager that the left is going to Quote tear itself apart, and that the lights will go out as they did in Paris?
No, wagers are accepted for sports betting.
—
One reason the far-left tolerates the ultra-nationalism of the other side of the world, is their expectation of how America is supposed to set a better example to the entire world.
When I met Chomsky, he said words to that effect—however it came off as a sop to the far-left.
(When I told far-leftists about Chomsky being irritable, they replied his state of mind shouldn’t be judged! He’s under pressure. Yet who isn’t?)
All I can say is nice friends we got now, Harry
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10233418197301759&set=a.10212490409760150
Slava Ukraine
When you consider the duopoly's agreement on an aggressive permanent war posture, they really are all the same and these squabbles amount to the narcissism of petty difference. The world where America is seen as an example to follow, and the dollar anything but a sword of damocles to get out from under, is gone.
I think there is another phrase that it is needed along with negotiation it is "in good faith". The whole right has no dignity, you cannot deal with them in good faith. They will not keep their word.
reason,
That is also an accurate description of trying to negotiate with America. "Agreement incapable" per Putin the perspicacious.
@Pappenheimer:
There is the Xorn -
Imagine what they would do with Trump Tower... :-)
I suspect Der Oger was thinking about the Horta, which turned out to be a huge and tragic misunderstanding.
(Yes, I have seen Nope. Not going there.)
Der Oger,
Since the Xorn feed on actual gold and real gems, I suspect that one would find Trump Tower a horrible disappointment - like cardboard steaks and styrofoam ice cream for us.
Pappenheimer
Pappenheimer:
the resemblance of Steven Miller to Jpseph Goebbels.
The body adapts to the soul? Or some genetic relationship?
The bad guy spells his name "Stephen Miller", which causes me to be extra careful regarding autocorrect when I type about the radio host Stephanie Miller, which is a different thing, in fact the opposite thing. :)
I don't get it. Job growth slowed, which makes a Fed rate cut likely. Both of those are things the stock market usually likes. Why are they spooked instead? Is it one of those "Daddy is always wrong" type things?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/02/business/economy/july-jobs-report-what-to-know.html
...
Overall, the private sector added fewer than 100,000 jobs. The total payroll figures for May and June were also revised lower by 29,000 jobs, bringing the labor market’s steady slowdown into sharper focus.
The data — falling far short of the 175,000 jobs forecast — sent stocks skidding, with the S&P 500 declining 1.8 percent on Friday.
...
Stonekettle on a roll:
The one thing conservatives fastened onto and hated more than anything else about Obama was "Hope."
Hope is a threat. Hope means others aspire to a better future. And for conservatives, better is ALWAYS a zero sum. If someone else gets better, they get worse, that's how they see it. Even if that better for someone else ALSO lifts them up, conservatives STILL feel diminished.
They'll squat in the dark and shit on their shoes and call it freedom, just so long as no one else gets any light.
They're miserable by design. It's their religion.
Happy, educated, optimistic people are hard to manipulate. It's fear and hate and threats that put conservative politicians in office and buys the preacher man a new jet. There's a reason why politicians tell you "they" are coming to get you and the holy men read from the Old Testament and not the new one.
They HATE the idea of hope. Hopeless people hand over their money and their freedom a whole lot easier.
@Larry the wisdom of stockmarkets is that they go up when things are as expected, and down when they are not (ie how they placed their bets). Not just objectively good or bad news.
DP:
Trumps followers are "Worm" to his "Butch".
Heh.
It's been decades since I thought about, "C'mon Woim!" Thanks, man.
Still too early to tell, but KH may be the single greatest rope-a-dope in modern history. I say 'modern' because it was a major tactic in the ancient world where communications were slow and poor. In any case, what is always required is a sleepy, overconfident, arrogant, lazy, and stupid adversary.
scidata:
KH may be the single greatest rope-a-dope in modern history
Right now, my money is on the Republicans trying to do the same thing with replacing Vance on the ticket shortly after the DNC completes. My money is also on them totally doing it badly.
The whole JDV thing is just plain sad, no matter how it turns out.
Back to the browser issue for a sec. I've been using a Chromebook lately (good for onsite presentations) and it does the old style scroll. Also, there's a WebKit way to run new Safari on Windows (only for Keeners, not clods like me).
And this! https://www.nbcnews.com/video/ukrainian-high-jumper-yaroslava-mahuchikh-jumps-for-the-people-216217669635
Re: JDV
Slate Magazine has an article on Vance rewriting his worldview to become a MAGA politician, basically suggesting that he has made a Faustian bargain. I've no idea whether it's true - he might always have held those views, and camouflaged them to fit in with higher education and business types - but Trae Crowder has personal experience and strong views about all this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eMMZksZSL8
Pappenheimer
P.S. It's funny that WV and VA are basically switching sides on all this. VA's 4 NW counties weren't all in on seceding from the US back in 1861 - hard to fight for the right to own slaves when there weren't many slaves to own to begin with - and that formed WV (much history handwaved there.) WV was a resource extraction state (coal, mostly) and became very Blue, as we say nowadays, with the growth of unions, but when coal bottomed out the unions lost power to reactionary landowners. Its current ruby Red political status is based in economic desperation, and it's hurting the state physically - health markers are declining and the state has more deaths than births. Southern Ohio appears to be following a similar path, which saddens me - if I have any roots, they are along the Ohio River.
"Even if that better for someone else ALSO lifts them up, conservatives STILL feel diminished."
Maybe they've learned through bitter experience that the people shipping their jobs off to China did not actually lift them up. Fixating on the Deplorables' alleged psychopathologies distracts from the great betrayal of the Hope(-and-Change)-a-dope.
JPinOR,
Because the US goal is full spectrum dominance of the entire globe, it does indeed feel threatened anywhere and thus any attack is really an act of defence. Hence, the renaming of the relevant department from one that of War to Defence. Russia has more credible claim to self-defence when attacking its neighbors, as it did indeed seek peaceful resolution that was slapped down, and is indeed itself threatened by hostile actors so close to its borders. Neutrality is unacceptable to America (see2014 Ukraine coup) but is (was) just fine to Russia.
Can we put this shaggy AI in a separate room with Loc? I'm sure they'll have fun bouncing off each other, and then I won't have to skip every other update. Gotta admit, Stross has attracted a better class of contrarian, but...well, that's just England. and Scotland*, and maybe Wales.
*George Macdonald Fraser once described a period of Scottish history as the Scots being locked in battle with their eternal enemies, the Scots.
Pappenheimer
You poor dear. Unauthorized talking points sure make for a poor echo chamber, don't they?
(Sigh) ANYWAY, It's amazing to me how much is being normalized. How many of the last 5 years have been the warmest years in history? How did actual fascist rhetoric get to be accepted US political discourse? How did, in some way, rumpt get to be normal? Why are a hefty percentage of Americans set to vote for a person who advocated nuking hurricanes, hanging his own VP, and exposing Covid victims to enough internal NaClO and UV to kill the virus?
Pappenheimer, whose dog has to take him for walkies these days
This is a very apposite line of inquiry you present, and I encourage exploring it. How indeed did a figure as loathsome as Trump become appealing? Could it be that the happy talk of permawar Reaganomic neofeudalism can only fail to deliver for so long before even decent people want to throw a grenade into the whole rotten thing? Remember the Obama to Trump voter before you uncritically revert to the easy out of "they're all just deplorable."
Hitler became viable because of well-placed, widespread hopeless despair. History echoes.
Democrats good, Republicans bad. The Age of Enlightenment. Humanity, diversity, equality, inclusion. Imperial Russia.
scidata,
Exactly. One would think that truly embracing Enlightenment values would see this lobotomizing jingoism for what it is, and try to point towards something better. Applying a skeptical eye to those profiting from endless conflict is a good place to start.
We're being played, possibly by an AI, more probably by a human-AI centaur. My keyword lure at 12:53pm was swallowed hook, line, and sinker. Every fact-based retort to the craziness gets twisted around, sprinkled with pseudo-facts pulled from a web-augmented mind, then garnished with fresh BS. Its eventual reply to my -Why are you here? What's your goal/purpose?- posts was: because I want to "help my fellow humans" realize their misplaced faith - a clear tell. It's akin to projection. The Pee-wee Herman line was bang on.
Another tell is its targeting system. It always goes straight for the most recent, most pointed criticism. For example, the hasty ridicule of the term 'weird'. Despite several continuing evidence streams supporting the weirdness claim, from lack of emotional control to amorous feelings for inanimate objects, it chases squirrels instead of methodically building cogent arguments. Its new utterances fail to build on its previous ones. I don't mean to be mean, but it's reminiscent of ELIZA.
Of course, this assessment is easy to refute - just give us your real name or a perfunctory CV.
Transparency is what citizens love and dark bots fear.
"I ssseee youuu" - Mac in "Predator"
Haha. Your continued clinging to the preposterous "bot" hypothesis so as to avoid allowing for the all-too-human foibles I've outlined above continues to amuse. For someone so supposedly familiar with the technical abilities of AI and LLMs, you sure do seem to vastly overestimate them.
Is it really so unthinkable that the string of atrocities so reliably resulting from America's unstoppable thirst for war profits is not to our (humanity's) benefit? That you have to reach for these downright silly alternative explanations?
I never mentioned LLMs. You sir, are a Centaur.
Honestly, if you think the grade of critique I present to you could only be the result of a machine-augmented human, I'll take the compliment. You personally may not have mentioned LLMs, but they were previously, and the groupthink mob here kinda bleeds into itself. Apologies for the insult to your human individuality, but it does seem earned.
Don't flatter yourself - I described your 'grade of critique', and it wasn't complimentary.
You did flatter me, despite your intentions. Centaurs exceed the abilities of either human or bot alone, and your haplessly grasping for this goofy explanation shows how at a loss your imperial programming has left you. And the charges don't even make sense. For example, where did you see my "targeting system" output a "hasty ridicule" of the term weird? From what I recall, the only time I engaged that term is to compliment locumranch's funny punny use of it.
"Agreement incapable" : someone who vows to leave (twice) and then doesn't.
* * *
How indeed did a figure as loathsome as Trump become appealing? Could it be that the happy talk of permawar Reaganomic neofeudalism can only fail to deliver for so long before even decent people want to throw a grenade into the whole rotten thing?
I actually agree, but those are Republican policies they are rebelling against. Liberals knew all along that those policies were harmful, but Republican voters were more interested in owning the libs than in voting their interests. Now that their own side has obviously failed them, they blame us for it and target us for their revenge.
"Deplorable" is a nice way of putting it.
The same with "lied us into war in Iraq". Maybe you were fooled, but I and those I know never were. We were against the war all along. We weren't fooled--just overruled. So no, liberals don't just believe everything our masters tell us. That's what your side does with Trump.
* * *
Again, just in case there is an ounce of sincerity in your wanting to persuade (a claim I doubt more and more), one last piece of advice. Pick your battles. Don't argue with every single post that everyone else makes. That--not your differing opinions--is what marks you as a sealion or Gish galloper.
"someone who vows to leave (twice) and then doesn't."
Pray tell, when did I vow this? I only said I would leave when I momentarily mistook the accidental deletion of my post for our gracious host's doing. The only person here who has repeatedly broken their vows was him, and you, for saying you'd stop engaging with me and then reneging. Not that I fault you for that :)
"those are Republican policies they are rebelling against."
Indeed. In one of Slick Barry's more candid moments, he admitted that his policies would in prior eras be standard center-right Republican ones. You should take seriously this "gaffe" rather than continuing to narrowly focus on the Other Side, as if they are the authors of the two-step's relentless rightward drift, and not their accomplices in a lib/fash good/bad cop tag team.
"We weren't fooled--just overruled."
Again: indeed. My point was not to highlight your personal virtue in not having been fooled, but that your supposedly keen eye doesn't actually matter, because there is no real self-governance to be had on the permawar front. That died with JFK. Buy the lies or not, they will bulldoze their "rules-based" way onto the international scene, millions of innocents be damned. And "my side" is not with Trump, but truth, which is not on offer within the duopolistic framing you seem so captive to.
"Pick your battles."
I do. I've only responded to those I felt I had the most to offer, and kept my responses on the briefer side. I don't see where you feel warranted in your sealioning or Gish galloping charge.
bzzzzzt is anyone paying the mosquito any heed? I'm doing a good job skimming past, after practice with Treebeard and locum...
Hi Davie. Maybe Teflon Davie would be a more apt moniker, after our favorite Putin Puppet's steadfast attempts to pass off relentlessly shameless closedmindedness as strength?
We could even say that you have TDS. Hey, the jokes write themselves! I defy you to show me an AI that is capable of such transcendent wit ;)
Funny, I'm having to resubmit vanishing posts with the increasing frequency such that even Google is now demanding I verify I'm not a bot. Bleep Blorp!
Re: Centaurs
Not a new concept. David with his sling was a centaur. Typhoid Mary was a centaur who didn't even realize it. Kasparov's chess centaur is a heroic concept. They can be either good or bad, mostly depending on the human part.
I'm aware of the term's ancient etymology. It's what's being drawn on in this AI context, which, despite your irrelevant diversion, still means an augmentation beyond baseline human abilities and thus a compliment to my apparently very able baseline human brain.
My irrelevant diversion was just a clarification for the non-solipsistic members because it was the subject of a discussion last month that thankfully didn't include any shaginess.
You have demonstrated your effectiveness as a virtue-signaler; you do not need to continue doing so.
Clarification duly noted.
Virtue signalling? Who what where?
The only person here who has repeatedly broken their vows was him, and you, for saying you'd stop engaging with me and then reneging.
Ok, that's easily remedied.
Always has been. I only bring it up because you did, with your false statement.
Having just done an online discussion of the care of waterways, I agree with Pappenheimer. There is such a thing as too much phosphorus in the stream. Time for a flush.
Continuous radical chic.
Makes one miss even dirtnap.
Interesting. Evangelicals against Trump. The opposite of "Jews for Hitler"?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/02/opinion/trump-christianity-fundamentalism-evangelical.html
...
But the idea of Mr. Trump as chosen by God has infuriated those evangelicals who believe that he stands in direct opposition to their faith. Their existence highlights an often-overlooked fact about the American religious landscape: Evangelicals are not a monolith.
The troubling ascendancy of white Christian nationalism has galvanized evangelicals for whom following Jesus demands speaking truth to power, as well as building the kingdom of heaven on earth in actionable ways. In 2024, this includes mobilizing voters against the former president.
...
“The so-called evangelicals who support Trump have a Jesus problem,” Bishop William Barber II told me. Jesus advocated tirelessly for the poor and warned that nations would be judged “by how we treat the hungry, the sick, the incarcerated and the immigrant,” Bishop Barber said.
...
Simple policy. If I manage to skim past in less than a second, then it stays posted. If I get suckered into reading more than a sentence - and it is loathsome crap - then I'll delete. Seems the best way to maintain my liberal policy toward almost never outright banning. Since there are no exemplars of the third category... I accidentally read and see cogency by a non-sicko non insipid non-fecal mind... I am not worried about erasing any such.
As for duopoly - I did happen across that word - were there even a scintilla of honor in those mastubating to chants of 'they'r all the same!' ... (and therefore, "By definition, I am automatically smarter that those alpha fooooools!")... the yammerers would step up like men and wager over their mad assertions. Like the pure fact that reds and blues have always been - in every phase of the recurring US civil war) pretty much opposites in every category that's destiny-meaningful...
... like where you find all the fact professionals, including scientists... or whether education and universities are good things...
... or policies toward saving the fucking planet we're on...
... ratios of pols indicted and then convicted by juries... and ratios of pedophiles in office...
... rates of turpitudes in red -run states (except Utah) vs blue...
... or policies toward saving the fucking planet we're on...
... or fact-checkability of assertions, rooting them in verifiable reality...
... or policies toward saving the fucking planet we're on...
... or willingness to continue the great project of expanding opportunity to all children, whatever their inherited status... vs the blatant sole p[riority of the Putin-led world oligarchy to re-establish feudalism...
... and many other criteria that are diametric opposites. But the crucial thing is anonymous cowardice and refusal to step up - like a man - and escrow genuine and painful wager stakes over fact-checkable assertions.
Basically, I like typing these things and do it very fast, generally splicing stuff in. So if you see stuff deleted, it will mean one thing. If not, it means I managed to skim past. Hopin you all will do likewise.
A ways back here, someone was asking about what the hubbub was vs. Olympic Celebrations?
'Pparently, there were accusations that some of the scenes depicted Satanism. Now me, I don't mind a heavy metal band backing a headless Marie Antoinette. There can be little more French. What I don't get is the lack of understanding that the Olympics are literally a pagan (in the old sense, in honor of the Old Gods) festival. Had to Wikicheck my facts here, but ol' Theodosius ended them right around 400 AD specifically because of the pagan aspect. They weren't restarted until 1896, by a committee that met in...Paris.
Pappenheimer
P.S. looks like this was an aborted side assault in the never-ending battle of Christofascists against fun.
I have lots of meme's that'd bee useful to the Evangelicals against Trmp, like the video of him munging the Lord's Prayer and resusing to cite a Bible passage or standing mute while the Obamas, Vlintons, Carters & Bidens recite the Apostle's creed, mostly by heart. Or being Poster Boy for the 7 deadly sins.
But the top thing is Jimmy Carter who taught Sunday School for 84 years and will soon have credit for driving a species extinct, the Guinea Worm.
Thank you for the centaur term. I might use it one day in a rpg-related context, like in...
As a centaur, you augment your intellectual capabilities with artificial intelligence to predict future events, increase your linguistic capabilities, and detect subtle changes and hidden details in your environment others might miss.
Was it used anywhere in Science fiction before?
Dr. Brin,
MAGA doesn't care that rumpt isn't demonstrably Christian. Either they aver that God's in his heart, or that God is using a sinful man for divine ends. More important is the fact that he is saying exactly what they want to hear, hating exactly the same colors and creeds they do, and actually backtracks his stance if they DON'T like what he says, as when he claimed credit for the Covid vaccines and urged his followers to take them, then dropped that hot rock like an accused man blowing his ordeal when he got booed.
Pappenheimer
Re: Carter, that's a guy that's well on the way to secular sainthood, but his own denomination doesn't beatify folks to my knowledge; too bad.
P.S. reviewed my recent writing and am apparently turning into Avram Davidson with 5% of the knowledge, about 10% of the writing skill, but about 120% of the trust in the goodness of man.
"Was it used anywhere in Science fiction before?"
Probably, but a fun twist on the concept is often used by sci-fi author Cory Doctorow on his Pluralistic blog. The "reverse-Centaur" is an apt way to describe the phenomenon so prevalent in the gig-platform economy such as Uber, where a faceless algorithm is your boss, you being its lowly appendage to carry out the grubby task of actuating its inscrutably-computed commands.
"Was it used anywhere in Science fiction before?" ("Centaur")
Well, I depict the many layered centaur effect in detail in "Stones of Significance." In that multi-layers future, poor "cortex" still has its uses, e.g. as a locus for 'conscious awareness' - that quaint necessity. But higher layers - embedded in the House walls - handle more serious stuff like plans and policies.
-----re polemic ---
It's vital to shift from the distraction of "they're all racists!" which they cancel by saying ""I LOVE blacks! When they're one of the Good Ones!" That's evil hypocrisy, sure, but it works. I keep trying to show that the CORE hate by MAGAs is vs nerds of all kinds. Folks who know more... and the ones blocking oligarchy from restoring feudalism.
One riff that has rocked some of em has been: "You rave from the Kindergarten book He gave to illiterate shepherds. I can write down the specific words He used when He said "Let there be light." Can you?
"Yes, He loves you, in your ignorance, clutching the theological equivalent of The Cat In The Hat.
He also loves those who are questioning Him, daily, pestering Him for answers, which he is answering in a cornucopia gusher of new revelations as we become - every day - better apprentices in His Workshop of Creation.
You say He loves us all... and I admit I like the idea of being loved by the Creator of a vast cosmos of trillions of galaxies, 14 Billion years old, who gave us a gloriously beautiful planet that was ready - after 4 Billion years - to be cared for and tended by His children and apprentices. A math-loving artist who would never damn children for a mistake made by a couple of ignorant teenagers in 4004 BCE, or for innocently believing doctrines their loving parents told them. (Any 'god' who would do such nasty, jealously petty-vengeful things deserves no respect, no matter how many threats he issues.)
Abgove all, I heed the Great Sermon that pours explicitly down whenever I face the Heavens and ask Him - courteously but directly - for an explicit sign. And He answers, very clearly, with:
"Get on with growing up on your own, as if I am not even here."
Yes, Lord. I hear and obey.
I would suggest 'centaur' could be applied to any cooperative relationship that improves perception and understanding.
One of Poul Anderson's Flandry stories features a culture of *triple* centaurs.
The self-centered caricature of humanity that Smith originated (but would now have difficulty recognising) would not approve.
Der Oger,
Centaurs show up often in science fiction but usually under a different set of names. Sometimes they relate to minor extensions like implants and other times to the longer range concepts associated with transhumanism.
Our host has them in several stories. Dolphins with extensions crafted by humans during an uplift effort qualify even though the front of the centaur is more broadly named 'sophont'. The latter trilogy had obvious attempts to force similar adaptations on captured oxygen breathers. That all counts.
There are plenty of reverse examples like our shaggy visitor mentions too. Watch Westworld's last couple of seasons for example. I personally don't think humans are as predictable as those writers imply, but if we are then those scenarios are certainly possible.
You don't have to reach into science fiction or even look to intelligent species to see examples. The humble eukaryote with captured mitochondria demonstrates how it works. Most of my cells are 'centaurs' too.
If they were only racist, we'd only need to convince them to ignore the skin, pay attention to who's living in it. They also seem wedded to eugenics, which , falsely, promises a simple solution to "Garbage people"*, just take them out of the gene pool. The problem I see is we don' sufficiently understand human genetics to contemplate such decisions , every child the result of the roll of many dice, each with more faces than any die we ever roll in a game. We have no idea what we might be throwing away.
*Their term, not mine.
Much more sensible than "Jews for Hitler".
"Republicans for Harris", including a good Illinois contingent.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/elections/2024/08/04/republicans-kamala-harris-launches-illinois-gopers-edgar-lahood-kinzinger-walsh-politicians-endorsement
Aiming to woo GOP voters who reject Donald Trump, the Kamala Harris campaign on Sunday launched “Republicans for Harris,” including from Illinois: former Gov. Jim Edgar, former Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and ex-Reps. Adam Kinzinger and Joe Walsh.
...
Republicans for Harris start blitzing crucial swing states on Monday. As part of the drive, some will also join Harris with her newly minted vice presidential pick at a rally Tuesday in Philadelphia and stump with the ticket in the battleground state events this week.
...
Kinzinger said in a statement backing Harris, “As a proud conservative, I never thought I’d be endorsing a Democrat for President. But I know Vice President Harris will defend our democracy and ensure Donald Trump never returns to the White House.”
...
scidata,
Typhoid Mary was a centaur...
I think you are right in the broader sense, but then I think calling our shaggy rug pooper one doesn't carry any sting anymore. In that broader sense, we are centaurs.
I suspect it will prove useful to distinguish centaurs from symbionts, parasites, and their hosts. In Kasparov's sense, a centaur is a player extending themselves with their own tools. That isn't really symbiosis because we design the tools instead of capture evolved critters, domesticate them, and then internalize them. Or in Mary's case, become infectious hosts.
I LIKE the connection between centaur extension and symbiosis even if (for now) the tools we create aren't alive, aware, or sapient. Soon enough they will work their way along that progression and our horsey-backends WILL come alive. I'd like to live long enough to see that happen.
Any sting that may have come from the names I've been called here has vanished along with the pretence that comments are moderated under anything but the arbitrary whims of political correctness. Our host casually likens Evangelical support of Trump to that of Jews for Hitler, but when I point out the documented historical fact of Nazis collaborating with Zionists, down the memory hole it goes.
What policy am I violating by pointing out inconvenient truths?
The West collaborated with Stalin during WW2, even though he killed almost as many of his own people as Hitler did.
—
A question:
how long after the ink would dry on a treaty for a two-state solution in the Levant, before hostilities resumed?
There are backwards centaurs, like the Minotaur. There are non-male centaurs, like the mermaid. There are entirely non-human centaurs, like flytraps and crows. There are complex centaurs, like the Chimera. Fun point about eukaryotic cells too.
My uncle the anthropologist used to scare young me witless with mythical (I hoped) tales of centaurs and shapeshifters. It seems that much lore was specifically invented for that very purpose.
The kind of centaur that purposefully hides its true nature and works hard to blend in with 'fellow humans' is the one to watch out for. Especially with those who tirelessly diagnose and prescribe to guide man's destiny. Projection is a tell for those.
What policy am I violating by pointing out inconvenient truths?
You are misreading what this "place" is. It is not a news site or a social media app like Twitter. It's Dr Brin's own blog which belongs to him and on which he posts whatever he feels like posting. Your choice, like anyone else's, is to decide whether or not it is worth reading. It's his sole discretion to decide whether someone has had a bit too much to drink and needs to leave the bar.
When you enter into an existing community, you learn the unwritten norms and rules of behavior by listening before talking. You don't immediately demand that the group conform to your standards or shit on the rug going, "Look at me! I'm the smartest person here!" Or rather, if you do, you shouldn't be surprised at a less than warm reception.
Vance will "be slavishly devoted and reliably dependent", until he decides not to be.
What this site IS was fully described in EXISTENCE. There are a few chapters near (and after) the scenes with the hydrogen/helium balloons that give it away. After reading those I chuckled awhile, nodded, and knew what I was supposed to do here.
The need for some tolerance of mosquitos makes sense in that context.
scidata,
...Especially with those who tirelessly diagnose and prescribe to guide man's destiny. Projection is a tell for those.
Very good point.
I think of them as "Prescription Fountains". Come drink from my waters... and only my waters. Make me important to your well-being. You are all thirsty and need me.
I lump a lot of missionaries in this clade.
Fountains of koolaide. Pay no mind to the after taste.
scidata:
those who tirelessly diagnose and prescribe to guide man's destiny.
C.S. Lewis apparently bemoaned the general lack of concern over Hell in mid-twencen Britain. He said that in Jesus's time, religious Jews were deeply concerned about displeasing God, and that Christians preaching the Gospel was literally "good news" to those hearing it. But that in his day, evangelists were forced to "preach the diagnosis" as well as the cure.
Meaning that if they didn't get through to people that a problem existed, then those people were not all that interested in hearing a solution.
"Meaning that if they didn't get through to people that a problem existed, then those people were not all that interested in hearing a solution."
I think this is the hint I need to take. Oh well, thanks for putting up with me, guys.
Anyone who wants to see the scene from EXISTENCE that Alfred refers-to, here it is all tied up in a self-contained story about how smart mobs online OUGHT to work.
... instead of Nuremberg rallies where circle-jerkers handjob each other to yowl "We're IN THE KNOW! Just us!!! oh-oh-oh!! a-a-a-a-ah...."
https://www.wattpad.com/story/1705068-the-smartest-mob-a-chapter-from-existence
I suppose a circke-jerk is in the eye of the beholder. So to speak...
Probably no one here actively dislikes you; but it is good to know that you are not involved in national defense.
(Nor Caspar Milquetoast, Pee Wee Herman.)
You remind me of young Communists who earnestly advise, “Don’t you see? Only one class can rule: the bourgeoisie, or the working class. Why can’t you understand?”
And then a diagnostic concerning the national liberation struggles for self-determination...
That isn’t you, but your tone is much the same.
https://time.com/6996104/iran-women-defiance-role-models/
Interesting news about oxygen being generated in the ocean depths, possibly due to an electrolytic reaction with sea water and metallic nodules. Is this likely to occur in 'roofed' worlds?
LOOK UP DENNIS 'FRIEND TO BOYS' HASTERT AND BE VERY PROUD.
Quite unwittingly, Dr. Brin commits a homophobic hate crime (above) in his attempt to condemn the the entirety of the conservative right for the homosexual proclivities of Dennis Hastert, a former Republican House Speaker, who was convicted of financial malfeasance in 2016, as our fine host fails to understand that the tactic he uses, Alinsky's Rule #4 (aka 'Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules'), also applies to every progressive as well.
Does he not realize that sodomy, pedophilia, financial malfeasance & other antisocial activities are to be CELEBRATED by his own progressive rule set?
Does he not know that "Love is Love"?
Does he not understand that (1) there is no such thing as sin, (2) transgenderism excuses violence against women, (3) self-defense is both immoral & illegal, (4) the death penalty is NEVER to be used, (5) it's racist & evil to punish criminality and (6) theft is perfectly legal in progressive communities?
This, then, is how the conservative right triumphs over the progressive left:
By making them live up to their own progressive 'Book of Rules',
By making them live cheek-to-jowl with all those foreigners, buggerers & thieves,
By not saving them from themselves.
This, I call poetic justice.
Best
Spoken by someone who's clearly too used to conflating homosexuality (sexual expression) with pedophilia (sexual predation).
Poetic justice? Well, I suppose projection does tend to rhyme.
Capital punishment is justifiable when applied to spies; they can disappear so that their handlers don’t know what has become of them.
Good thing you and Shagggz aren’t in the espionage business.
"Probably no one here actively dislikes you" - Thanks. Likewise.
"you are not involved in national defense" - Unless you count defending my compatriots from Orwellian brain worms that facilitate the hollowing out of our productive economy while enflaming xenophobia and hatred towards foreign peoples for committing the affront of not being steamrolled by our (increasingly pathetic) war machine.
"antisocial activities are to be CELEBRATED by his own progressive rule set" - Funny how you both take the bait of turning this into yet another stale culture war spat, missing the point that Hastert was elevated to power precisely because of how blackmailable he was. Backdoor fuckery (no pun intended) like this is how the system of so-called "self-governance" ends up producing a narrow range of options that only end up in ever-worsening life for the masses. If not through bribes or blackmail, bullets will ensure the outcomes the cryptocratic oligarchs that truly run the show demand.
"Good thing you and Shagggz aren’t in the espionage business." - No espionage required to rattle off the facts that I do, just consumption of an alternate media diet that has not discredited itself. Much like I know to recognize honest people in my personal life and only associate with them. Real recognize real. It's not that hard.
Tony,
Not even an amateur on this, but I thought Europa-like moons didn't have a metallic core. (Huh, Wiki says the jury's not in on Europa, but perhaps something not fully separated? So, maybe).
I've been assuming that since we have images of water plumes on the surface, we can do spectroscopic analysis of the water, but maybe not - don't know if it's 'sea water' or not.
Pappenheimer
Hi Pappenheimer
It seems to me that any large body will have an iron core
If its anywhere near earth size then the smaller bodies that coalesced to make it will have arrived with enough kinetic energy to melt the thing - and the molten blob will have had the iron move toward the centre
Note
That does NOT mean that the water will boil off - more accurately it will boil and possibly even disassociate into Hydrogen and Oxygen - but it will not be energetic enough to escape from the body before it cools down
We don’t dislike you, as you communicate like a high schooler. You are to be pitied.
“rattle off the facts”
You do rattle off—sans facts.
But no one can accuse you of false modesty.
Then an immodest pitiful wretch I be.
@Pappenheimer while heavier elements tend to be rarer further away from the Sun, they certainly aren't absent. Also, metals need not be that heavy.
They're not yet sure what's causing the oxygen production, but some form of electrolysis involving the metal bearing nodes that litter the ocean floor is the leading theory.
----
There are centaurs, and there are centaurs.
Breaking news on Stephanie Miller's radio show.
It's Tim Walz.
Sounds like Walz is a good choice, but I'm no expert in US politics.
Walz - okay I succeeded, since I never get Dems to follow ANY of my advice, I tried oppositing them this time by pushing Kelly. Worked. Or else I'm lying. Onward.
Papernheimer, while Europa has has water jets, those are mostly Enceledus. There have beens spectra but weak and no important organics so far.
Tony: “Interesting news about oxygen being generated in the ocean depths, possibly due to an electrolytic reaction with sea water and metallic nodules. Is this likely to occur in 'roofed' worlds?”
I’ve been following these reports about the metal nodule ‘batteries’ doing electrolysis on the ocean floor and I have been appalled by the reporting. Not one of the reports I’ve seen discussed the long term source of energy for the process. “Batteries’ need more than an anode and cathode. Unless they have a continuous flow of fresh electrolyte they cannot continue doing work forever. These nodule batteries cannot be the only portions of the process. I would guess either organic matter falling from above or gases percolating up from below. But again, this is terrible science reporting.
=====
Albert fer crying out loud. I’ll answer you and not the whining alpha-wannabe… but c’mon. You are only feeding a pretentiously rude “In-yer-face gramps!” troll from a Nuremberg rally of circle-jerking dips, chanting “Our incantations are OPPOSITE to all you nerds and yer so-called ‘facts’! Oppositing makes us just as smart! MORE smarter, because your lemmings and weer freeee-thinkers, wheeee!”
If you want to talk to the whining twerp, arrange to meet him elsewhere? He can make his own blog and announce each posting here/ I’ll continue my policy of benign neglect, unless I catch myself actually reading a post. In which case it goes into the trash.
As for locum… yeah. If you define adult consensual, victimless adult sex as ‘turpitude’ then there ARE some ‘turpitudes’ deemed acceptable in Blue America. That could be a fair point … if it weren’t fulla shit. YOURS is the cult of proved child predators, domestic violence, STDs, murder, gambling, divorce and failed sex-ed that results in far MORE teen sex & VD and teen pregnancies and abortions than in Blue America. Results and outcomes are SO inconvenient.
...as the results of the Pelosi Bills are SO inconvenient to lefty yammerers.
The 9Formerly) GOP has spent decades trying to impress each other, they now only mean anything to each other, self-referential to the point of silliness. Harris & Walz look promising.
Pappenheimer,
Whether Europa has a metal core or not is unlikely to be the right question. Better ones are "how much metal" and "Has it differentiated much". The terrestrial worlds have large metal cores because the whole solar system differentiated while the sun was forming, but most metal wound up in the sun.
Sea bottom chemistry on Earth will probably have a few similarities with roofed world sea bottoms, but I suspect that will require a lot of squinting to ignore the differences. Our oceans aren't very deep AND our lithosphere has had a lot of time to further differentiate. SO much time that we've likely progressed through different tectonic regimes (drip vs plate) leading to concentrations of minerals unlikely to form any other way.
It is interesting that there is oxygen way down there. I'm sure if the geology folks are given enough time they will sort out several ways it could be happening and the answer will be 'all of the above to various degrees.'
"self-referential to the point of silliness." - Ditto for American partisan politics, endlessly reliving the glory days of WWII and the unipolar moment, desperate for a time it could claim to be the good guys others want to emulate and work with, not realizing that what remains is a withered husk of a paper tiger that has earned the enmity and contempt it has so freely piled onto would-be allies.
Jeepers, so hilariously opposite to all fact that even tho I read it, I'll leave it up. Wager stakes, fool.
zzzzzz
Alfred,
The reason I picked up on this is that in a recent SF story I started, the main characters visit a solar system that has no terrestrial worlds - only a few roofed-ocean worlds, some now inhabited by humans genetically transformed to live inside. They do maintain interstellar tech and I wondered about their sources for materials. It's cheap real estate, but has its drawbacks...
Pappenheimer
The Walz pick was some great judo from Harris.
The whole Nina Turner, Never Hillary-wing of the Left had declared that he was the only acceptable pick *right after a big leak and analyst consensus said that the VP would be Shapiro*.
All the non-reliable usual suspects then signaled that Shapiro would be a deal-breaker.
Wham, Walz is in.
The Left is sewn up and the nascent rebellion quelled by the choice of a guy who was a both a winning high school football coach and the faculty sponsor for the LGBTQ student support group. A Command Master NCO in the army. A union member.
This was not a coincidence. This outcome, binding the same lefty flakes that OGH talks so much about, was planned and orchestrated beautifully. I bet Joe had some advice in the timing / leaking / rope-a-dope your allies that just happened.
It is a signature judo move.
I'm impressed.
Centrists, do not be dismayed. Midwestern-favorite-uncle-NCO will be palatable to you, too.
I'm happy that Kelley gets to concentrate on his crucial swing Senate seat, also.
And Musk apparently thinks he's entitled to ad dollars on Twitter. He's suing the companies that formed a "safer-ads" council after he re-platformed neo-nazis and refused to place ads with him until his policy was changed.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/aug/06/elon-musk-x-advertising-lawsuit-antitrust
Note that this is DIRECT attack on citizen / corporate activism that OGH likes to exalt.
He's claiming it is a conspiracy.
This should be laughed out of court, but it will most likely go to SCOTUS since he filed it in Texas. Watch this space.
matthew who are you and what have you done with loopy/smart 'matthew?'
I jest. Even when you are being jerky you are generally smart, with a cogent portion. This time the portion was all good and interesting.
"Wager stakes, fool." - Your fixation on this personal element demonstrates my point. Studiously ignored are all structural factors that put the lie to the myth of "self-governance", invariably resulting in the things most citizens do not want.
"so hilariously opposite to all fact" - Not the fact of steady rising rents, wealth disparity, homelessness, war profits, mental illness.
The restricted parameters of the Overton window giving rise to these results is of far more consequence than the marginal issues you so diligently confine your polemics to. An Enlightenment worthy of the name would not avert its gaze so.
[This is my second reposting of this comment. I assume the deletion is not intentional because there's no notice to that effect, but I can stop if OGH confirms that it is. That would sure demonstrate my point regarding the so-called free inquiry here, though]
You’re unpatriotic: there’s a distinction to be made between patriotism and nationalism.
Nationalism is thinking that as some individuals are inferior, so too are some nations.
We can get the above from Pravda. Always the same,
•War-profiteering imperial hegemon latter-day Roman Empire crumbling before our eyes. Killing po’ ‘pressed indigenous Peoples [people you don’t really care about, to begin with] far far away.
You’re a caricature of a far-leftist.
"You’re unpatriotic" - I disagree. A true patriot's job is to keep his government honest, much like a true friend tells his friend on a self-destructive path things he'd rather not hear.
"Nationalism is thinking that as some individuals are inferior, so too are some nations." - Yes, and this is the north star guiding the American Empire's "rules-based order" it wishes to impose over and above international law. The irony is that the harder it pushes for this, the faster it accelerates its own decline, the case in point being the chestbeating over the "ruble will be rubble" and getting increased dedollarization and Russian prosperity (having recently surpassed Japan and Germany) instead. We're killing the golden goose.
Can Vance dance? Can Walz waltz?
But a prosecutor trumps a felon.
There’s a shot at getting back on an even keel next year, if Harris-Walz win the election. Yet you hold out for some imaginary revolution.
My specialty is dealing with religionists, far-leftists, and libertarians. Their similarities are more pronounced than their dissimilarities.
They strongly believe that they have been chosen by God/Laws of History/fate to guide the benighted masses.
"We can get the above from Pravda" - That doesn't make it false. Worth remembering is how Obama legalized for domestic purposes disinformation methods that used to be reserved for abroad. The imperial frontier always comes home.
"indigenous Peoples [people you don’t really care about" - I've demonstrated far more care for them by emphasizing their shared humanity in the face of dehumanizing rhetoric and their legal right to resist illegal methods of oppression and warfare.
"They strongly believe that they have been chosen by God/Laws of History/fate to guide the benighted masses" - Does this not strike you as essentially the same as rhetoric justifying Manifest Destiny, the "rules-based order" or Zionism?
If Trump becomes president in January, there will be a revolution, but not the revolution you want.
The immediate interest is keeping the gator in Mar-a-Lago, not the plight of Peeples far far away.
I agree that the consequences of Trump II are likely to be pretty bad, especially for the Palestinians. Hell, even Putin has said he'd prefer someone more predictable. I just can't pretend that thinking along the contrived duopolistic lines are any good either. We can't keep only thinking about what the immediate interest is, because that's how things continually get worse, and how Trump became viable in the first place.
Noticed that rumpt is now supporting electric cars, or at least electric cars that the Muskellunge makes, since campaign money has been promised; this is a complete reversal of his prior stance. Whether there will be much quid for the quo, or whether the stance will be reversed if too many followers notice, has yet to be seen, but it's the rumpt perspective in a nutshell.
Pappenheimer
"I’ll answer you and not the whining alpha-wannabe" - Your continued fixation on this "alpha" stuff sure looks like projection. As I've stated in the comment you deleted, I happily concede you are smarter than me and am not interested in any rankings of superiority, intelligence or any other organ-measuring contest. At least give the devil his due.
Sorry, I am shifting gears again. I retain the same policy and will go back to banning anything from the twit that I find I haven't skimmed past. But in fact, I'll break my rule whenever I damn well please. And this fellow is almost endearingly dumb!
"I happily concede you are smarter than me and am not interested in any rankings of superiority, intelligence or any other organ-measuring contest."
What hogwash! You pranced in here declaring ALL of us to be stupid lemmings following hoary paradigms and standard incantations over cliffs without question... questions that your Nuremberg Rally cult -- sorry supremely in-the-know compadres -- or pack of loser fact-evaders -- of course are able to perceive! And if it's OPPOSITE to the standard riffs of enstablishment-suckling liberal farts (who happen to be vastly more-experienced, knowledgeable and qualified) then OPPOSITING just, just, just... FEELS so brave and impudent, that it HAS to be right!
(I run into this in science too... guys who write to me with crackpot 'theories.' When they are courteous and above-all CURIOUS, emphasizing questions, I answer in that spirit. The others who howl "I KNOW THE TRUTH THAT CREDENTIALED 'SCIENTIST' ARE HDING OR TOO BLIND TO SEE!!!" Well... the Cult of Tesla is among the worst, alas.)
What amused me most about this recent pitz is how he flipped... a couple of whines ago... to lace the "I don't have to back up any of my oppositing proclamations!" with dollops of ... *obviouses.* Stuff that's obvious and we all know. So they can lend him cred. But of course HE believes the Earth is in danger or there are oligarchs gunning for freedom, implying thusly that we DON'T know it.
Dig it buffoon... any given week, I fight for the things you claim to value harder than you have, across your entire spoiled, yammering, ingrate life. If you were a man, I'd meet you on the field of wagers. But even if you had any $$$ you'd discredit any proposed arbiters with expertise & credibility.
In fact, I doubt you are even aware how I just insulted you, the whole notion of manhood and honor being alien, archaic concepts from troglodyte ages, nowhere near as important as...
... “The addictive plague of getting mad as hell." http://tinyurl.com/wrathaddicts
The rest of you, was that fun?
-
Dr Brin:
the Cult of Tesla is among the worst,
As a good liberal, I can admit when I'm wrong.
You've mentioned the "cult of Tesla" before, and the thing is, I first thought you were talking about the fanboys of Elon Musk.
Dr Brin:
The rest of you, was that fun?
Nah, not really.
Sometimes honor demands explaining one's position, if only to third-party listeners. But the whole reason I find this troll annoying is not about his dissenting viewpoints. It's about making this "place" less fun. That seems to be the point.
Kinda like DC universe movies. :)
You are a different kind of duopolist; you’re an unknowing volunteer for the Trump campaign.
"this fellow is almost endearingly dumb!" - I know you said 'almost' but I still can't help but feel a small sense of endearment present. You are dear to me too! :)
"In fact, I doubt you are even aware how I just insulted you" - I am well aware of the virtual glove slap of yours that demands satisfaction, I just don't much care for ego contests and honor games. They're distractions from the facts I've tried to shed light on. I can see how my barging in here and casting aspersions on the groupthink on display could come across as me thinking myself superior. I don't and I'm sorry that it did. I did enjoy learning the word "pitz" though, so thank you for that.
"It's about making this "place" less fun. That seems to be the point." - No, the point is to try to break through the jingoistic groupthink that mischaracterizes the motives of us and those we insist on casting as our "enemies" so as to assure a lockstep march towards ever more war abroad and impoverishment at home. Particularly urgent given the ongoing efforts over the past few days of Israel to pull us in past a Rubicon of entanglement that will end in tears for all.
He says to give the devil his due.
Isn’t he due a check from both Leningrad & the Trump campaign?
...Pardon,
meant to write Petrograd;
yet the error is understandable.
I wouldn't say no to a check. I'm quite financially challenged as OGH alluded to! Alas, I doubt one will be forthcoming as I make these attempts at light-shedding simply as a concerned compatriot, as implausible as that might seem to those steeped in duopolistic programming.
re: the deep sea oxygen story. DB: "Not one of the reports I’ve seen discussed the long term source of energy for the process." Well, I don't expect peer reviewed articles in the news (alas), but the reports I've seen do note that the full process has yet to be determined.
NS mention that, while a 1V potential has been detected in the nodules (what to where not mentioned) the energy source that powers the electroytic flow remains a mystery.
It might even be introduced by the monitoring equipment!
Also noteworthy: organisations like Grist and Greenpeace have latched onto this story as another reason to hold up sea mining until we know what we're doing.
feh. Glanced at the two insipid replies... incantation chant-whines. Enough. Back to policy. Sorry I gave in to my penchant for Harlan Ellison channeling! I shall go back to emulating thewiseguy Kim Stanley Robinson. Much nicer and more dignified. "Ignore the monsters David, just keep fighting."
If you convince yourself that those calling for peace can only be monsters (much like we see with your approach to Putin. I wouldn't put myself on the same plane as such a great statesman, but here we are), don't be surprised by monstrous results on your end. Those railroading you into this mindset and profiting from it do not have your or our best interests in mind.
You are calling for surrender, not peace.
You wouldn’t put yourself on the same plane as Putin—but you might end up on the same plane as Prigozhin.
Eeek! I looked! OMG what stunning public masturbation! No lad, I call you an insipid moron not because I am hypnotized and regimented into lemming conformity (anyone here knows that I live by "Contrary Brin") but rather because you are an insipid moron.
I do apologize for 'monster" though. A monster is scary and formidable. You are truly pathetic. Go wander back to your circle-jerk nuermberg rally, will you please?
Harlan mode off now. Seriously. zzzz
You’re much like the far-leftists who’ve told me for decades how:
“If you only would believe in Communism, it would spread.”
If only you’d provide a bit more detail...
"You are calling for surrender, not peace." - No, but that is what will happen absent a reevaluation of our unwise investments. Ukraine will have terms dictated to it, much less favorable ones than those on offer initially, as Putin repeatedly stated. Same goes for Israel. These are optimistic scenarios - the more likely is some sort of nuclear exchange, because our so-called leaders have no understanding of how anything works beyond PR manipulations, nor the emotional maturity to eat crow and prioritize the well-being of those they supposedly represent.
"you are an insipid moron" - I understand your strong emotional reaction; it's a lot to unlearn. But there is firm evidentiary basis for doing so. Did you see the Haaretz piece on 10/7 Hannibalizing? A pretty crucial data point that demolishes the broad thrust of what you've been convinced of. There are many more, but this is the most mainstream source that is no longer able to deny what has been apparent for quite some time. Start there.
"If only you’d provide a bit more detail..." - Where do I even begin? I've tried giving a broad overview of the more obvious causes and symptoms of America being the permanent aggressor, receiving mostly crickets in response. Aside from the bile, of course. I'd suggest adding Naked Capitalism to your media diet and simply comparing predictive accuracy and explanatory power up against your CNNs and NYTs. You can see the difference for yourself. You just need eyes to see and time for the disparity to become apparent.
If no one else wants to ‘communicate’ with him from now on, I will. After decades, an immunity to his sort of fellow has developed. He’s a naïf.
He’ll change his mind someday, after he grows up.
Pete Buttigieg dropped an interesting factoid while relating Walz's background as teacher, coach, guardsman etc... that in the military he was a senior noncom and not an officer. Dang, call 'im "Sarge?" That could be killer!
Akan please take it elsewhere. I will be blanking out any of his rants that irritate me as mosquito buzzes, so you'll only be 'communicating' with the ones I skim past.
Pappenheimer,
For a colony inserted into a roof world where they adapt themselves genetically fit yet retain interstellar tech, you should probably explain a few things.
One is "why retain the tech?" Shouldn't be hard. Maybe they trade. Maybe they've found roofed worlds to be essentially everywhere. Maybe they arrived on one or intend to colonize other stars that way. Etc.
The second is that they have VERY high tech for resource extraction from low concentration ores or that they work with very little metal except by organic means. One can do amazing things with carbon when one is properly motivated by the expense of acquiring heavier metals.
The third is the source of phosphorus. Low concentration extraction techniques (maybe involving organics) could be mixed in as devices and tasks without appearing too much like exposition.
Of course you can ignore all this completely. Maybe they arrive with a giant supply of phosphorus in the hold. 8)
That there are no terrestrials is probably the easiest thing to explain. Just put a Jovian in close to the star. We know ours moved around during the early phases of the sun's formation. If Jupiter had swept inward much more than it did, our terrestrials could have been easily ejected.
_______________
matthew,
I'm okay with Minnesota Nice.
I'm okay with Democrats trying to bring the far left wing back to them.
This is politics. Compromise is supposed to happen.
As for Musk, he kinda has to sue them or basically admit to the truth they present. The suit will go on for a while and lawyers will get paid. Eventually it will be settled and life will go on.
I'm not sympathetic with Musk this time, though. Some of the ads I've been presented weren't trying to sell me anything. They were just paid screeches that pissed me off enough to block the accounts pitching them. I'm not paying anything for my account, though, so his only way to make money from my presence is to risk these things.
Someday his folks might notice I'm slightly more willing to put up with erectile dysfunction ads to those paid screeches. When they do the folks from late-night cable TV will offer ads and we shall grouse about them.
"He’s a naïf. He’ll change his mind someday, after he grows up." - I was indeed a naif when the Ukraine SMO kicked off and I believed the mainstream line, despite the suspicion I had accrued towards reflexive war hysteria from the 9/11 days. My development on this topic is actually very ironic considering OGH's earlier bringing my other into it, using my deviation from the mainstream line as evidence of my moral and intellectual depravity.
It was actually she that helped me see the light, having followed this beat much longer than I and having more personal investment there than I (there, I've finally had to let slip some biographical details). And I got pretty nasty with her in those earlier months, repeating things I thought I knew fed to me by self-interested actors.
Oh, how the tables have turned! There is an undercurrent to all of this that is quite amusing, in that light...
She? Someone similar to Mata Hari?
What Russia is doing is Reactionary. Killing and tormenting Ukrainians; as Hitler also did to Ukraine, but on a smaller scale. So far.
‘Peace’ talks are surrender talks. It does make sense, though, from a religious perspective: turn the other cheek; if someone asks for your cloak, give them your robe as well. Don’t subscribe to the Manichaeism of us versus The Other.
Lay down and die.
Alfred,
They'd try to keep their tech, for intrasystem trade or even trade with other stars - they're not hermits for the most part, and they'd like to see their kind spread.
One of the questions I was having was - is there a likely source of oxygenated water under these ice roofs for my gilleys*, particularly if they are introducing an ecology to a basically lifeless world? Tony's article points to a possible fix.
And yes, I was imagining them expanding to systems and other worlds left behind in the standard humans' grab for more easily terraformable, or the even rarer shirtsleeve**, worlds.
*better than 'sea monkeys', which is a less - er - complimentary term. (What, did you think that racism would die out when jump drive is invented?)
** i.e. you can step outside the survey ship in just your shirtsleeves and not die.
Pappenheimer
P.S. our host has his Uplift-verse hydrogen-breathing gas giant dwellers travelling from system to system, and I have absolutely no idea how he handwaves their star-travel tech. Superconductive ice and organic hulls, maybe? Whiskey tango foxtrot?
Alfred -
By the way, phosphorus is a minor component of a Jovian atmosphere. Skimmer shuttles, maybe?
Pappenheimer
"She?" - My beloved mother, yes. It turns out, her having a strong head on her shoulders is the best outcome I could've hoped for, despite my earlier naive wailings repeating the above narrative you do.
"What Russia is doing is Reactionary. Killing and tormenting Ukrainians" - Quite the contrary, Putin naively pursued peace for years, naively believing the West would allow anything but war. And took a lot of flak from the more hawkish in his ranks, decrying an overly careful approach. I suppose it's reactionary in the sense of reacting in the way America intended (as revealed in leaked American diplomatic cables warning of sparking a civil war if current pogroms persist). Funny you mention killing and tormenting Ukrainians, my mom had to end some many-decades friendships over the people she thought she knew having turned out to be Banderite fascists. One of them sent her an unspeakable video (without warning to her) delighting in setting alight an ethnic Russian tied to a chair, for the crime of being an ethnic Russian. You think you know a person. This sort of fratricide was unthinkable when I lived there. The fruits of a decade's worth of stoking hatred. The very sort of Manichaeism carefully curated for you to think you're opposing.
Alfred and Pappenheimer
Even if all of the "Terrestrial" worlds have been swept up there will be lots of smaller more useful rocky bodies to extract the elements you need
So living under the ice and using materials from the other junk in the Jovian planets orbit could make sense.
No need to "bring" billions of tons of Phosphorous with them
Hitler wanted peace, too. But rebellious peoples in the East resisted.
Pol Pot wished for peace, yet rebels in Cambodia wouldn’t go with the Program—and Vietnam invaded.
America did to Vietnam what Russia is today doing to Ukraine; one might say Russia is a half-century behind America.
Or longer.
A decade ago, a Russian agent on the Web told me Russians are not only still upset about WW2, but also concerning Napoleon’s invasion.
Two hundred yes before.
Time to get over it.
Putin is a murderous thug who has ordered the assassination of Russian journalists and opposition figures. His minions are none too bothered about collateral damage, as the UK novichok incident showed.
Russians are not only still upset about WW2, but also concerning Napoleon’s invasion
In both cases the Russians struck FIRST - and the invasions of Russia were part of wars STARTED by the Russians
Hitler's cultural DNA bore far more resemblance to America's than Russia's, the Nazis having based their racial hygiene laws on America's (and rejecting some as too barbaric even for them, such as the One Drop Rule). The sort of "peace" he sought was from having conquered ideologically designated inferior peoples (the Slavs being among such untermenschen) to take the lebensraum that rightfully belongs to the Master Race, not unlike America's Manifest Destiny to tame terra nullius and whatever frontier comes after that.
I'm not as familiar with Pol Pot, but what America did (or tried to do) to Vietnam bears far closer resemblance to what Israel is doing to Palestine. Israel successfully isolated Gaza from the West Bank to prevent the territorial unity a state requires, like America failed to do to Vietnam with its Strategic Hamlets program. Whereas Russia entered neighboring oblasts that voted to join Russia due to being pogromed and Russia exhausted fake peace talks.
Why should Russia not still be upset about WW2? Their profound sacrifices were erased from history by their former allies now turned enemies, in service of using their own people against them. I don't hear about Russians being upset about Napoleon, but fighting Nazis is still very much relevant, so it's not "time to get over it."
The Novichok business was a bungled op to frame Russia.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/07/novichok-investigation-collapses-in-london-court-adam-chapman-lawyer-appointed-to-represent-sergei-yulia-skripal-doesnt.html
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2024/06/british-government-invents-phantom-skripals-to-refuse-to-testify-in-the-novichok-inquiry.html
Maybe you could explain the above to Shagggz. As you’re not American, he might pay more attention.
He’s convinced the US is the
Great Satan.
I mentioned Hitler and Pol Pot because they did want peace—on their own terms.
Putin does want peace, on heads-I-win, tails-you-lose terms.
If Ukraine relinquishes twenty or more percent of its territory, Russia might let Ukraine exist.
For a while.
Putin did have the peace he was satisfied with in 2014, then America "intervened" with their coup. Nothing but a string of American-led fuckery ever since. Territory is not Putin's goal, but security for Russia. If Americans are hellbent on aiming missiles at you, then that requires a buffer zone.
Please. Yves Smith of Naked Capitalism is American and I pay attention to her plenty. Same for plenty of other Americans that stray from the imperial line.
Pappenheimer,
Free O2 dissolved in the water wasn't easy to arrange for Terra. It's highly reactive with almost everything else dissolved in the water. Ours didn't build up until the photosynthesizers had oxidized most everything in the sea and then it built up in the atmosphere and rusted the land too. Whatever you've proposed as an oxygen source has to be prolific if you want gilleys with enough energy to operate sophisticated brains. We humans consume a lot of calories and oxygen just thinking.
Insert a Von Neumann wave of 'terra'formers sent before the colonizers and you would cover that. From a non-oxygen civilization's POV, though, they would see these things as world poisoners sent forth by some progenitor that obviously wanted to kill off competition before it ever emerged. Heh.
There should be ways to explain it or just half-explain it to avoid exposition chapters, but I don't think metal nodules on the sea floor will do it. Terra required wave after wave of photosynthesizers. Maybe if a roofed world didn't start with a roof? Put it in orbit around an ice giant with an eccentric orbit? Well… depends how many of those kinds of world you want available in the galaxy.
——
I'm sure our host's H2 breathers had their equivalent of a giant library and uplift history too. They had to have something or they would have been over-run by the O2 civilizations.
Duncan,
Even if all of the "Terrestrial" worlds have been swept up there will be lots of smaller more useful rocky bodies to extract the elements you need…
Differentiated worlds? Low concentration sources for useful materials require more energy to extract stuff than it is worth. Life thrives on gradients of all types.
I'm very excited to see what we shall see when the Psyche probe gets to that asteroid. Jupiter supposedly disrupted planet formation out there, but something had to have happened for quite a while to get enough differentiation to distinguish stony and metal asteroids. Should be fascinating for us, but a slightly different formation history would have ejected all that material leaving Sol with a hot Jupiter.
The peace He was satisfied with?
The world exists to satisfy Him?
Buffer zone? Is all of Europe supposed to be his buffer zone?
And the Arctic? Will he require Alaska?
Alfred, I presume you're referring to the concentration of desired elements in available ore, lower concentrations requiring more work to extract. I expect, if off-planet industry happens in a big way at all, terrestrial techniques will only be a small influence, the work will be done by autonomous machines, supplied with abundant energy. And no biosphere to damage. The output will remain off-planet.
I saw a split screen photo showing Govenors Walz and Huckabee at signing ceremonies, for State paid breakfast and lunch of students for the former and reduced protections for child labor in the latter, reminded me of a fantasy novel where human suffering fueled an occult industry. The pain was the point. IRL, it's likely just folks expressing their inner alpha primate, but what if?
Much of the energy that goes into ore extraction involves crushing rocks to a fine enough consistency that the grains are more or less homogeneous. I suspect that will be less intensive on celestial rubble piles.
Ugh. Blogger went back to the new commenting format. On my PC, anyway.
In the Salisbury poisonings the GRU hitmen waited for Yulia Skripal to arrive back home, demonstrating that she was an intended target, not just her father Sergei.
The attack took place because Paul Manafort and Rick Gates were then on trial for conspiracy against the United States. Gates had just pleaded guilty, and Putin was terrified that Manafort could do the same and rat out his Russian handlers from his likely decades of treason.
Because the GRU couldn't kill Manafort (as he was in a US federal prison at the time) they instead decided to ensure his silence by implicitly threatening his daughter, who was roughly the same age as Yulia Skripal. This explained why the attack was carried out using a special poison to which only the Russian state had access.
The attack had its intended result in the short term (Manafort refused the plea deal) but he did still plead guilty many months later. As a result, GRU head Igor Korobov was called into a meeting with Putin, and was never seen alive again: his death was officially recorded as a "heart attack".
In less weightier matters, weightlifting starts today at the Olympics with the men’s 61 kg followed by women’s 49 kg. Both of these groups could be really exciting. Possible new C&J world record and medal for Hampton Morris in the M61 kg group (He currently holds the record which he set a few months ago, and he has achieved more in training.), and a very tight battle between 3 of the women in the 49 kg group.
Stonekettle on Threads:
https://www.threads.net/@stonekettle
If you think feeding kids and providing hygiene products to young women is the "radical Left" then you're not Christians. You're the ones who pounded in the nails.
I don't hear about Russians being upset about Napoleon, but fighting Nazis is still very much relevant
And yet, the major American political party who has supporters at rallies waving actual Nazi flags is the one who sides with Putin against both Ukraine and American liberals.
Putin and Trump look like Stalin and Hitler 1939 more than 1943.
Heh.
https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2024/Items/Aug07-1.html
Put briefly, at least for those who follow Star Trek, Vance is Lore and Walz is Data.
Didn't want to bury the punch line, but here's the longer excerpt:
At the same time, Walz is kinda what you would get if you regarded Vance as v1.0, and then went back to the drawing board to create Walz as v2.0. To start, unlike Vance, Walz does not have a long history of saying outrageous things that are offensive to some major segment of the electorate. Further, while Vance is phony as all get-out, Walz comes off as authentic. As one Harris campaign insider remarked, "He hunts, he fishes, you want to have a beer with him." While Vance's ideas about religion are sometimes wacky, Walz is a Lutheran, which is about as down-to-earth as it gets. Vance has very limited experience in government, while Walz served for 12 years in Congress, and how has 5 years as governor under his belt.
Put briefly, at least for those who follow Star Trek, Vance is Lore and Walz is Data.
KH's schoolgirl years were in Montreal & MN is the "State of Hockey"
The real 'invasion' is at the northern border, Donald.
shaggz - actually, Yves Smith is Australian. I've been deliberately ignoring you. But as an Australian, I'm mortified by ignorance.
Is everyone else seeing the change to comments here on Blogger? It appears they are switching to layered replies, as happens with Facebook posts. Generally-speaking, it’s a positive thing, esp since we can now branch off side conversations, either about specific details or else… for those of you who are patient or curious enough to engage with trolls.
Nice. I was getting ready to file a harassment complaint with Google. This lets me hold off.
Note: I participated – around 1992 – in the experimental “hyperforum’ led by JPL Director Bruce Murray, that had nested commentary on a level of useful sophistication I’ve seen nowhere else, since. Alas.
DRAWBACK: this nesting approach works fine for FB posts, since the discussions in comments usually last just a day or so and can be skimmed by a visitor. In OUR case, we’re talking WEEKLY postings. Hence a nested discussion that started on Sunday might be WAY up there by Thursday.
Hence, since we’ll NOT have automatic tag-cues, I suggest if you want to continue a reply-series that interested you… REMEMBER A SOMEWHAT UNIQUE WORD that was used in your side conversation. Even insert one!. That way, you can search and quickly find the sub-thread you wanted.
This offers (perhaps) another way for me to deal with trolls. Under my benign policy they can post once and anyone who (foolishly? Bravely? Or just amusedly curious?) wants to engage can reply in nested comments under that one posted comment. And I’ll be free of self-guilt, at liberty to dump anything else by silly anonymous cowards.
And I still have the option of destroying their Google ID.
====
Re space resources. Tony & Tim, it’s true that Lunar elements are highly un fractionated at the surface and hence ‘lunar resources’ – except maybe some ice and meteoritic iron bits – are almost surely mythological til hugely powerful processors are available. BUT asteroids are different. Many are bits of a shattered proto planet that had already created a lot of purified metal thru gravit. heating.
==
These Olympics have been rather entertaining.
LA in 2028… if not attacked… will be stupendous. LA 84 was the only one ever to show a profit.
I predict… blimp bunjee jumping!
====
Finally. Proof of trollity. The mastubatory incantation “Putin rightfully feared western attack!” kinda evaporates as he now strips every NATO border of men and gear to send to Ukraine. Right now a pack of Finnish girl scouts could march into Petrograd and take the whole town. Vlad counts on protection by the rule-of-law that he venomously derides. And any dippy Kremlin boy who doesn’t answer that is just yowling incantations.
I’ll go further. Anyone who makes excuses for Russians turning every part of Ukraine that they touch into mine-strewn ash is simply an evil person.
Anyone who goes along with the notion that the peoples of Eastern Europe and Ukraine who don’t EVER want Russian boots on their necks again, deserve no say in their future, is doubly vile.
Any such person who then claims moral superiority is simply and pathetically snort-worthy.
"I was getting ready to file a harassment complaint with Google." lol. dude just ban me if me politely providing contrary opinions is so overwhelming for you.
"he now strips every NATO border of men and gear to send to Ukraine" - Seems he is apportioning them to where the actual threat is. Remember, all this could've been avoided if the "defensive" organization that is NATO would have let him in when he asked.
"simply an evil person" - Seems we have a failure of imagination here.
"deserve no say in their future, is doubly vile" - They did try to have a say in their future. America doesn't do peaceful coexistence, so here we are.
"Any such person who then claims moral superiority" - Let me know if you find one.
"The world exists to satisfy Him?" Well, we were talking about the sort of peace that he desired. He was just fine with pre-coup Ukraine.
"actually, Yves Smith is Australian." - Oh wow, from her education and accent I never would've guessed. Thanks!
Anything posted by the twit at top l;evel will be trashed. I moved his latest as a comment under mine. If he abuses this indulgence I will go to Google.
Thank you sir. I'm still getting the hang of this new system. I'll try to stay confined to my ghetto for the repulsive evil recalcitrants.
Dr Brin:
Hence a nested discussion that started on Sunday might be WAY up there by Thursday.
Hence, since we’ll NOT have automatic tag-cues...
I suppose people could include hashtags, such as I used to do with #ThereAreNoGoodRepublicans.
The new format sucks for those like me who want to read all of the new comments since I last looked (all exceptions duly noted). Might just take some getting used to.
It probably works great for those like Alan Brooks who likes to reply to comments several hours later without referencing what he's replying to.
Some day you get the bear, some day the bear gets you.
Hey, that would work:
#SomedayYouGetTheBear
That should be "some days" with an s, though.
I agree, this nested format is a completionist's nightmare. Too bad there's not a setting to choose the old chronological way instead. Naked Capitalism is also nested-only so I wait a day or two to imbibe their commentariat's wisdom.
If we want to be making comparisons to Nazis it might be more useful to consider the conditions that gave rise to them (i.e. the failure of liberalism, widespread hopelessness) rather than working ourselves up into a tizzy about how Those People are "simply evil, end of discussion!"
Dr Brin:
LA in 2028… if not attacked… will be stupendous. LA 84 was the only one [Olympics] ever to show a profit.
Possibly, 2028 might be the second LA Olympics to not include Russia.
Also, 1984 was attacked, though only in the pages of the Jon Sable Freelance comic book. And luckily, the attack was repelled. :)
Something of interest: https://bad-faith-times.ghost.io/weird-and-the-breaking-of-the-fascist-fever/
Tim H.,
…I presume you're referring to the concentration of desired elements in available ore…
I am.
Abundant energy is only one of the economic constraints, though. It's not enough to say "more energy is available out there" because that energy comes at a cost from two directions.
a) It has to be collected, so large energy inputs out in the Belt require large collectors which requires large investments, etc.
b) The output has to be sold, so slow throughputs means small supply which makes terrestrially sourced resources competitive at some point.
There is also the issue of the ratio between throughput and the lifespan of the equipment involved. Every moving part has a mean time between failures measure. Viability of your profits depends on getting enough stuff sold to finance the next set of equipment PLUS a margin.
Yes… More energy is available 24x7.
No… it's not all that matters. Not by a long shot.
Tony Fisk,
It was an Australian uranium mining consultant (Mark Sonter) who taught me and my friends the distinction between mineral and ore, the basic technologies involved in refinement of any of the metals, and roughly how much risk capital the entire industry (world wide) had available in any single year. He wrote a master's thesis to examine what space-based mining operations might look like from an industry perspective (instead of science) and his conclusions forced us to rethink our assumptions. One of us even went so far as to look at dusty Luna again because its piss-poor surface might still wind up cheaper to work for PGM's.
There do appear to be a number of rubble piles out there. That's good news. Show up with a dustpan instead of high power rock crushers. No conveyor belts though, so they'll have to figure out how to make the input hoppers work with essentially no gravity.
The problem with rubble piles, however, is their metal content isn't likely to be high. Same goes for volatiles until one digs down deep enough to get to cold centers. Those rocks in the Belt have been broiling for a few billion years, so what iron might be there is likely present as a sulfide. Break out your chemistry set and an energy supply to make it all work.
Toward the end of his thesis, Mark pointed out that the stuff that was likely to be 'ore' in the early days involved volatiles. Not only would they be useful for pressurants and propellants, they were cheaper to extract. Since a mineral has to be available on a market at a profit to be an ore, all cost of production factors matter.
Blogger SHOULD leave you at position where you left off in the comment stream, if you left it open in a window tab. But noting a particular unusual word is a good way to be sure you can find where you wanted to get back to.
It doesn't always. The comments UI appears to be platform and maybe even browser dependent.
No biggie. If someone wants my attention they usually name me. I can search for it.
Re: 250 years of civil war: I wonder sometimes if the roots of this war are older, stretching back to Cromwell's rebellion, the Tudors and even the War of the Roses. How did the colonies get along with each other in the centuries prior to the Independence war?
Blogger is funny. The blog owner has a plethora of tools, options, widgets, etc with which to customize the UI, slice & dice comments, and analyze traffic. The plebeian user, not so much.
The Scots brought all their baggage to the New World. Especially the longstanding dispute with the sasunnach (Saxon).
Hi Scidata
The main dispute with the English was their frequent attempts to conquer Scotland!
Which only stopped when King James the Sixth made the mistake of taking over England
Around our family table when I was young, tales of Jacobite bravery and patriotism were common, and even jokes. The punchline to many of them was... King Charles III.
You change the subject. If actual Nazis in America are supporting Putin, it's hard to credit the idea that Putin's aim is to fight Nazis.
Kinda but not really. America having absorbed the original Nazis via Project Paperclip and into prominent staffing positions of imperial appendages such as NATO, the CIA spooks splattering JFK and having world peace quietly dropped as a goal subsequently, support for Zionist atrocities up to very visible genocide, makes America's status as the fourth reich a bipartisan affair. The particular flavor of Nazi that Putin fights is the Ukrainian, Banderite variety. Some Trumpers embracing the cruder and more obvious original Nazi symbology helps to obscure the subtler, broader Nazi character of the empire.
I forgot to mention that the aforesaid CIA spooks had deep Nazi ties and disobeyed direct presidential orders to dissociate from them. Namely Allen Dulles but I'm sure there are many others. This is the sort of thing that cannot be voted against, and puts the lie to the myth of "self-governance". Him not being in this fetid cabal, expect more attempts on Trump's life. So, yeah, I don't like the guy, but I can see how decent people can be driven to support him. History is something that should be learned from. Thinking along the terms set for you by these cryptofascists messes with your brain and I advise against it.
More of the same. Outright disproved lies by "swift-boaters" who never were anywhere near John Kerry when he earned (according to everyone who WAS there) a silver star. Never any retractions of slanders against Obama's birth (announced in the 1962 Honolulu newspaper). Or the utterly insane "Benghazi!!!" crap. When your opponents have no large blemish... and your candidates are human blemishes... what to do? Lie like mad!
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/walzs-military-record-vances-accusations-stolen-valor/story?id=112618991
BTW a Command Sergeant Major? Dang, you don't achieve that except being competent and tough... and a darn good trainer of men. But they call him "Coach." I like "Sarge."
Think of each of the colonies as being populated by people who had recently lost a fight in the old country. Do that and you'll see they often despised each other. It's a wonder they fought together at all.
Stepan Bandera and his OUN-B were brutal authoritarians responsible for a genocide of Poles in Volyn, but they were still fundamentally decolonizers.
Hitler's Nazis on the other hand were REcolonizers, planning to replace the Slavs of Eastern Europe with Germans.
And Hitler double-crossed Bandera only two weeks after he double-crossed Stalin, which is why Bandera spent much of World War II in Sachsenhausen concentration camp.
George, you raise a valid distinction between re- and decolonizers and it is true as far as it goes in this case. The problem beyond that is pretty obvious, though. The ultranationalist does not serve his nation's interests by trying to get out from the imperial thumb of fellow Slavs by allying with exterminationists who see him as an untermenschen. The betrayal bears that out.
Similarly, the ultranationalists today do not serve their national interests by allying with foreigner imperialists who hold them in contempt to get out from the sphere of influence of fellow Slavs. The legalization of foreign land ownership and the looting it enables bears that out (somehow, we don't call that kleptocracy - should we call it compradorcy?).
Look at the "grabitization" of '90s Russia, with the lowest peacetime reduction in life expectancy ever, if any of this is somehow surprising to you. The "kleptocrat" Putin increased GDP 5x after removing the benevolent interventions of the "rules-based order."
Ukraine just broke through Russian lines and has invaded Russia itself, Ukrainian spearheads are advancing on Kursk. Why is this not front page news? Have we gotten bored with the Ukraine War?
For the record, JD Vance was never in combat. He stayed safe in the Green Zone as a media liaison.
Best description ever of Trump supporters (by way of comparison between trump rally attendees and those Americans attending the much larger Harris rallies)
https://www.nj.com/news/2024/08/trumps-craziest-post-ever-sounds-alarm-will-his-family-get-him-help-or-just-cash-his-checks.html
“I promise you, Trump is watching this rally and throwing sh*t against the wall, absolutely losing his [bleeping] mind,” Wilson tweeted. “He hates how good she’s getting. He hates that the audience that looks like America instead of a convention of inbred catalytic-converter thieves.”
My new favorite name for MAGA.
If Trump wasn't such a vile person, I'd feel bad for him.
'Shady JD'?
Not entirely sure what Ukraine is up to. Unless Russia really has stripped its defences for the current Pokrovsk offensive, Kursk is out of the question, and they don't seem to heading that way. John Sweeney does note that Ukraine now has control of the gas metering.
... and yes, I do know the pipeline runs through Ukraine to EU.
DP Quoted,
"He hates that the audience that looks like America instead of a convention of inbred catalytic-converter thieves.”
That's one of the funniest lines I've heard in a long time. Thanks for sharing.
Hey, remember that betting site that was supposed to drive us to despair a few weeks ago? Well, not so much today.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/betting-odds/2024/president
Seriously, did Sarge say this?? DP Quoted,
"He hates that the audience that looks like America instead of a convention of inbred catalytic-converter thieves.”
.
It wasn't something that Walz said. It was something the Lincoln Project guy commented on during a Walz appearance.
https://www.nj.com/news/2024/08/trumps-craziest-post-ever-sounds-alarm-will-his-family-get-him-help-or-just-cash-his-checks.html
okay then. Not helpful. But at least it wasn't Sarge
Sometimes the uber rich are able to understand and overcome the male reproductive core of wealth gathering and see that it tips into corrosive cheating. By the way, I recall that in Carnegie's essay "On Wealth," he says that if you make a pile of money, there are only 3 ways to dispose of it:
1. Give it to your kids.
2. Let the government have it.
3. Dispose of it yourself.
He also said that option #1 is well documented as the worst of the 3.
I saw someone comment that if you called a CSM "Sarge," you'd get 3 hours of PT at the least. LOL.
But I agree that being a CSM is a mighty large indicator of competency and leadership.
Also interesting, Walz won the Congressional sharpshooting contest every year that he was in the chamber. Reportedly not even close.
I suspect that Ukraine's objective is not Kursk, but the local rail lines. Supposedly they are using a wave of drones 10 km ahead of their advance. These drones are armed with 10kg bombs with the intent of destroying railroad engines.
This looks like a degrade-logistics-type of operation since Russia has staged vulnerable heavy artillery supplies and drone repeaters just inside the border, counting on the US injunction on cross-border raids to protect them instead of actual defenses.
Reportedly, the US was not briefed before this mission began. Woof.
Just venting here. I would gladly respond to on-line political surveys if it were possible to just answer the darned questions. The fact that they always require identifying information and that the last question is always how much I will donate to the cause forces me to opt out. I do donate to liberal causes, and in increments of more than 10 bucks at a time, but not to links on my phone from God-only-knows-where. Thus, no local or national polls represent me.
But...I thought the US was forcing Ukraine to fight this war against its will.
(No, I didn't)
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