Friday, October 16, 2009

Jiu Jitsu in Afghanistan

All right, here's the deal. I 'm paid to point things out that others haven't noticed. Not all the under-examined concepts that fizz out of my contrary-cracked mind prove right or even sane!  But I am pretty good at showing that this or that twist should at least be put on the table, and dismissed properly. And so, I'm going to toss something out there.  It is far from the most preposterous alternative I've come up with.  In fact, this idea should work! Even though it hasn't a prayer of being tried.

Let the Taliban take over Kandahar and parts of Pashtunistan.

 Yes, it sounds terrible.  Defeatist.  Humiliating.  Sending exactly the wrong message to our Pakistani quasi-allies and giving the jihadists reason to cheer...

Or would it?  Think.  When did we do our very best against the Taliban?

During the initial post-9/11 intervention, when they had something to lose.  Something that could easily be taken from them.  Guerillas are at their best sneaking around in barely more than the clothes on their backs, sniping in target-rich environments.  They know that they are absolutely terrible at holding onto discrete, well-defined territory, let alone governing it. Not against a coalition of modern powers.

Now combine this with the following news article from McClatchy (10/16/09):  The U.S. military can send only about 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan in the next three months without putting excessive strains on the Army and Marine Corps , but the top Afghanistan commander has said he needs more than twice that number to have the best chance of success, military and administration officials told McClatchy. 

Put aside for now the near-treason of a previous administration that left our military in such a state. (When Bill Clinton left office after a fantastically successful Balkans Intervention, every single US brigade was rated "fully combat ready."  When Bush left office, NONE were rated even close to fully combat ready.)  

The significant point here is that we simply haven't the resources to simply "police-down" a wild-ass insurgency in every valley of Afghanistan, also known as "the place that empires go, to die."

So let's try a little thought experiment.  Suppose we talked Karzai into "ordering" US and NATO forces out of some well-defined area called Pashtunistan.  The Pashtuns are the principal tribe causing trouble in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. A high fraction are fanatically conservative, the ones who want their women wrapped up in burkhas and who banned both music and kite-flying.  Suppose Karzai said "I've struck a deal -- limited autonomy for the Taliban in this region, if they'll agree to pull out everywhere else."

 Of course the Taliban will agree... and of course they'll intend, first chance, to stab Karzai in the back and resume their campaign.  That's given. Only think:

 1)  During the two month transition, you'll see transfers of population.  Fanatics hurrying to Kandahar and moderates moving out.  Especially any woman with any sense of pride or self-preservation.  Drawing fanatics away from the rest of Afghanistan and Pakistan and concentrating them in a place that finds itself almost without women?  Um... what's not to like?

 2) The new Pashtunistan will happen to have boundaries that allied forces can seal, at least somewhat.  It is arguable that less heroin will escape that way, than currently does, through today's widely-cast net.  In any event, trade will be at the mercy of the surrounders, not the surrounded.  Moreover, as part of the deal, the radicals will have to first turn over strong points and passes to the Pakistani Army.

3) This turns the civil war into a tribal one.  It should cause support for the government to rise everywhere outside Pashtunistan, as  Uzbeks and Tajiks and others remember what life was like, before 2002.  Especially as Kandahar devolves back into incompetent rule, poverty and sheer nastiness.  

(Let the Taliban cry out for donations and help from radicalists in Al Qaeda and the Arab world.  Let those funds flow.  It won't be enough.  Nothing can be enough.  Those sources will dry up.)

 4)  War will resume.  It is inevitable.  Jihadists cannot grasp satiability.  They'll start attacking, again.  And, when they do, we can simply take it all away from them again, in a matter of days, fighting on our terms, not theirs, to be greeted as liberators, even by the Pashtuns of Kandahar.  Oh, in trying to defend fixed positions, Taliban troops will be at their most vulnerable.

 Sure, it's a bit cynical, manipulative and callous... almost like the way the British behaved, during their imperial era.  The fig leaf of Karzai ordering this would be essential.   But really, when all is said, where are the failure modes?  For example, suppose the new Pashtunistan government surprised us by showing competence, skill and restraint, separating from Afghanistan and joining the community of nations.  Even if they are hostile to us, tell me how that would be worse than the present situation?  In fact, the more they have to lose, the more likely they will fear a repeat of 2002.

Oh, and then there's this.  A Taliban entity, sitting once more on the border of Iran?  Let the mullahs sweat that out.

All right, this doesn't fit into tidy left-right boxes.  Anyway, I despise that metaphor.  We need to be idealists, but pragmatic ones who are capable of jiu jitsu, when it seems called for.  And, when it comes to Afghanistan, jiu jitsu is always called for.


David Brin said...

Continuing the BATTLE HYMN OF THE REPUBLIC theme... need a web site... and then new verses.

Continuing the grapes of wrath theme... heroin of hysteria? Cocaine of culture war? Dope of dogmatism?

Or stick to fruit?

Barry Goldwater's body is a-spinning in his grave....

When Adam Smith joins Maynard Keyes, then something is amiss....


Ilithi Dragon said...

I have to say that I like the Afghanistan idea, Dr. Brin, though as you said, it's unlikely to happen.

As for drugs/fruit... I'd say mostly stick to fruit. A common-usage drug reference to stupidity/delusion might work, but probably only once.

Rob said...

It occurs to me to suggest that such a thing would impel Iran to invade Pashtunistan just to keep the... oh...

That's a bit of Machiavellian brilliance, there, David.

Politics said...

I have thought for some time the only reason to be in Afghanistan is the drug trade. By itself if corrupts governments, engenders violence and according to some authorities funds terrorism.

Surely we can interdict the processing centers and trade route with fraction of our current force.

lc said...

The infrastructure is happening!

A McDonald's in Pacific Beach (San Diego) is installing electric-vehicle chargers for its customers to use while they eat.

Catfish N. Cod said...

Sorry, Dr. Brin, but I'm going to have to CITOKATE you here. I think the most likely scenario to be enacted is an even better version of what you're proposing... as it fixes some flaws you may or may not have considered.

First, you're totally right: pulling into specific localities and letting the Taliban temporarily take a territory (and thus be pinned down to it) is absolutely a correct strategy. It's too bad that the Pashtun areas are the one place on the entire planet that Taliban/Qaeda laws and practices won't raise local hatred to the boiling point within six months.

Second, securing a border -- any border, drawn anywhere -- in Afghanistan is grade-A tough. With no rivers, plateaus, swamps, etc., your borders are limited to flat open semi-arid plains and mountain ranges. The enemy specializes in mountain operations, so that doesn't help; and as for flat open semi-arid plains, we can't close a border like that even in our homeland!

Cities, on the other hand, are something we have learned a great deal about defending in the past decade. We know now all too well how to keep ratfinks out of population centers; everything from the return of the city wall (three hundred years after cannon made it obsolete) to anti-IBD checkpoint procedures. We can *do* this, especially if we reconcentrate our forces.

Third -- as a practical matter -- occupying the cities means occupying the moral and memetic high ground. If you can't defend your capital (as Pakistan currently can't), you're seen as weak both inside and outside your borders. If you can, you're strong. *Holding* Kandahar, Kabul, and selected other cities and making them what we *want* Afghanistan to be makes us look good to voters at home and all the people there -- even as we're executing the partial-withdrawal strategy.

Fourth, and finally -- Karzai wouldn't do it. He's Pashtun and Kandahari himself, and what little credibility remains to him stems from his strong efforts to unite Afghanistan and tamp down ethnic animosities. All of that would be undone by declaring a Pashtunistan; every other ethnic group would demand the same, people would bicker, and Afghanistan would fall apart again. It would amount to renegotiating the Constitution, and Afghanistan doesn't need that. It would be political -- and quite possibly literal -- suicide for Karzai to do such a thing. Even if your plan succeeded, Dr. Brin, Karzai would still be the scapegoat for the increased ethnic tensions... there's no way for him to win personally, and there's no way it contributes to long-term stability for Afghanistan.

And even if we destroy the Taliban, if Afghanistan stays destabilized, their successor would inevitably arise and swear vengeance on us. It may or may not have been wise to stick our hand in the beehive -- even if we had to -- but now that we have, we'd best not pull it out until we're sure the bees won't come after us.

But fortunately, from what I hear, the middle-road strategy now being debated dodges these problems by making the cities, rather than the non-Pashtun areas, the fallback ground from which we will re-strike the Taliban. Further, we give the civilian teams the time to build the goodwill and infrastructure we should have been working hard on since 2002, and haven't for all the reasons you have discussed so thoroughly.

Remember -- it's not because they really like the Taliban that people welcome them back. It's because they deliver on their promises. If we can, and give them peace too, we win. Hands down. Even among those who think women should never have shoes or learn to read.

David Brin said...

Catfish, I totally disagree!!! ;-)

Seriously, you have it backwards. Afghanistan's countryside is possible to quell, through technology. Envision real surveillance tech taken another generation ahead. Barren mountains are good guerilla territory, until they are watched in all places and all times with deep-spectral sensitivity. THEN then become very much unlike jungles... they become death traps.

At that point, the principal consideration is the expense of the tools used to get the bad guys. Hellfire missiles can't be wasted on ones and twos on a mountain trail. Here is where we might see the first use of battlefield lasers -- not against tanks or ICBMs.

IF the right tech breakthroughs happened, a few hundred high point surveillance sites -- inaccessible by anything but helicopter -- ought to make interdiction possible. SOmething that is much harder in cities, as the Pakistanis are finding out.

Ilithi Dragon said...

Well, Northrop has already successfully tested a 105-kilowatt solid state battlefield laser prototype, that is small enough to mount in the back of a truck, or on a tank or airplane, early this year, and their Firestrike system is a 15-kilowatt solid state laser that was ready for order late last year (as in 'production model' and not prototype), and is small enough to mount in the back of a truck. Combine with some high-tech surveillance systems we've had for the last 10-20 years, and I think Dr. Brin's idea could well be within our technological (and probably financial) capabilities now

Brendan said...

When the US goes into re-liberate the Taliban owned areas, my guess is the Talban and their supporters will do exactly what the Iraqis did that ended causing the US so much grief. They will put up token resistance and fade into the background. Lots of caches of ammo and IEDs will be in place for the Resistance to use against the US-Afghan-International INVADERS(which is how the attacking forces will be seen locally).

In Terry Pratchett's latest book peace is defined as"a period of time to allow for preparation for the next war". This is exactly how the Taliban would see any offers of peace, no matter how rosy they seem.

rewinn said...

Letting the Afghans work out their own heaven or hell would seem to be a wise course.

Certainly we should offer money, intelligence, food, roads and so forth to the factions we prefer. But if the people we like can't win with the essentially unlimited arms we can give, they can't win. Period.

The problem with a battlefield magic laser is the same as with a smart bomb or a cruise missile or a combat team sent into a village controlled by the communists (or Taliban, or whoever the bad guy of the week may be). A smart enemy (...the non-smart ones don't last long...) figures out how to infect the intel stream and take out HIS foes with OUR ordinance.

Tony Fisk said...

If you're seen as invaders, then life under the Taliban can't have been that bad, despite the assumption that might lead to invading in the first place.

Be very careful of believing your own propaganda.

Talking of bearded renegades, it seems an appropriate point to slip in a couple of articles giving pirates a better rap than the history books suggest. Did hollywood swashbucklers get it right!!? Well, maybe. You decide whether Somalis are carrying on a tradition that Adam Smith would have recognised)

(A-vast forthcoming novel about an-arrr-chy and collapse might find some interesting snippets to use, even if its just cybernetic parrots... oh! ;-)

On the battle hymn:

Wage war on drugs while singing hallelujah/
Sustain the righteous wrath: smash every hoo-kah!/
Don't think about the rush that's surging through ya!
You can withdraw in the morning!

(possibly a bit divisive in ways undesirable? That's what citing Kate is about!)

Tony Fisk said...

A variation on the pirate riff.

The commons seems to be regaining support.

Tragic!? Or has the collapse of communism allowed a veil to drop?

Website? You know where pbworks is!

Jon Sills said...

I read recently that the opium crop was worth in the neighborhood of $4 billion per year to Afghani farmers.

Might it be cheaper to simply outbid the bad guys, and offer, say, $5 billion per year for the poppy output, than to send people in to try to destroy the poppies? And might that increase our popularity with the Afghan people?

atomicsmith said...

Durians of Doubt.

Lychee of Lies.

Kumquats of Corruption!

(doesn't really scan...)

Ilithi Dragon said...


I think the problem is that you're trying to match fruit that start with the same letter as the word theme you want the line to focus on. Grapes and Wrath don't really have any phonetic association, after all. Try going for symbolism, instead.

David Brin said...

I think the failure of the Bushites to fully fund development of surveillance + laser interdiction methods is further evidence that they did not want to win.

Well... actually, some of these lasers are big chemical jobs that require a lot of tanks of stuff to run. Not exactly easily placed on a maintain top overlooking a valley/pass. Not the way you should be able to set up surveillance tools, camouflaged and with great ease.

Missiles are too expensive except for hi value targets. I guess, till really good lasers are around (ideally solar powered!) the compromise would be a kind of middle caliber, hyper accurate sniper/artillery.

Crux. Technology distinguished us from the clumsy USSR in 2002. Another leap is called for... though it is still a scary/awful quagmire.

Ilithi Dragon said...

Dr. Brin, the laser systems that Northrup has already developed (Firestrike, and the 105 KW prototype they successfully tested early this year, with just some miniaturization and ruggedization required for a production model) are solid state lasers, with solid-state lasing mediums pumped by laser diodes, unlike the big, bulky chemical laser job they're stuffing into a C-130. These 15-105 kW laser devices are small enough to mount in the back of a truck, or on a tank, or in a plane or chopper. They're not as powerful as the chemical lasers, but then, you don't need megawatts of power to take out infantry, artillery shells, missiles, etc. We have this very technology that you're talking about right now.

David Brin said...

There is still the question of supplying power. Electricity ain't cheap at those wattages. You need to pump up dang big capacitors. If it's done with gasoline generators, you'll need a big 'un and lots of fuel and capacitors and TIME between shots.

If they've reduced the size/bulk of support material and the recharge rate, and if they could be deployed to high vantage points in large numbers, then it could be a very effective weapon for these circumstances, rendering Afgh a terrible place for infiltration, rather than a very good place for infiltrators. Except in rain and smoke and haze, of course.

Have refs & URLs?

Rob said...

David, those are small wattages.

Five car batteries in series can sustain 10 kW output for a few seconds, and that's a relatively primitive battery technology. About 180 amp-hours per battery, 98% efficient, marvelous recharge-ability.

Tony, your meter's off for the tune that goes with the Battle Hymn of the Republic; I can't come up with a melisma that makes it all match up.

diumbsh -- Y'all won't be able to resist the obvious with this one, will you?

soc said...


On the question of women fleeing the fanatics, surely plenty would have done so already from Afghanistan and the NWFP in Pakistan if it was realistic. That part of the world is pretty unforgiving to single women on the run. I fear most women will be trapped in Pashtunistan.

Secondly, what is the end game? Once the taliban have to hold and defend a territory they're going to lose. It's not their game.
But once they lose, they'll simply go back to being a guerilla army.

2002 will be repeated with the same results. Nato forces take the field and the taliban go back to hit and run warfare.

Am I missing something?

Ilithi Dragon said...

Yeah, the 100-kilowatt range is fairly low; the 1500+ kilowatt gas-turbine engine used in the M1 Abrams could easily put out that much juice with no loss in performance of the tank (largely because all the M1s have a governor that restricts their top speed to 45 mph, even though they're capable of 70+, because above 45 they start to shake themselves apart). That doesn't account for input-output efficiency, though.

Now, the battery tech for a fully-mobile armored laser is still a little limited (though we're making a lot of advancements there, too), but for a stationary emplacement? There shouldn't be much trouble.

As for links, here are a few news articles (plus the ones I provided above):


And the 105 kilowatt laser (the Firestrike platform with 7 compound units):

Now, the actual energy efficiency of the device is 19.3%, so the actual energy input required is in the range of 550 kilowatts, which is a bit more of a stretch for mobile power generation and energy storage, but still within the range of our capabilities, especially when you consider recent progress there.

Duncan Cairncross said...

Re John Sills suggestion,
I have heard that we need the heroin for medical use
The idea of buying it from the Afghan farmers is worth pursuing

David Brin said...

The 100kw laser is way overkill for the purposes of Afgh insurgent interdiction. Far more significant, for dealing with supply trains of mules and infantry winding through a mountain pass, would be:

1_ Rapid repeat cycle
2_ super-accurate sequential tracking/aiming
3_ rugged portability for helicopter placement at high/secure aeries with wide regions of coverage

Of course, it is easy for an armchair general to imagine just fifty or a hundred such watch sites being able to surveil and interdict all plausible infiltration paths. In reality, convenient/defensible/suppliable aeries may not be available in all locales. Or line-of-sight problems may multiply the number needed. Hence, blimps would be a cool supplement, but slow to respond. Tethered aerostats would be easier to deploy for wide coverage, but also vulnerable to attack. Other kinds of aircraft cannot loiter permanently.

Then there's the public relations problem. People are squeamish about ALL variants on warfare. Using lasers against missiles? Fine. Against human flesh? Even though the wounds are probably cleaner than a bullet, a lot of folks would protest. Especially if even one insurgent were blinded, instead of killed.

Am I starting to sound like someone right-of-center, now? A fanboy of military SF? Well, sure. I always avowed to having many slivers of conservative or libertarian traits, mixed into the progressive whole. Indeed, most of my denunciations of the neocons deal with how they have betrayed patriotism, responsibility, prudence, restraint, self-reliance, individualism, professionalism, market-mindedness, sobriety and military readiness.

Anyway, those Taliban not only want to kill us and topple western civilization. They want to enslave women, and the liberation of women is the salvation of the world. If they can be stopped under circumstances and in locales where there just aren't any innocent bystanders -- along those mountain trials -- then I say go Pax Americana.

Tony Fisk said...

Rob, if my meter's off, it may be because I'm confusing the Battle Hymn with John Brown's body. If so, it serves me right for putting an oar into other people's cultural history!

... Ah, wait! The inner wikipedia does match the outer... try matching it to the chorus:

(Glory), (glory) (hallelujah)
(Wage-war-on-drugs) (while singing) hallelujah/
(Sustain-the) (righteous-wrath): (smash every hoo-kah!)/
(Don't-think) (about-the) (rush that's surging through ya!)
You can withdraw in the morning!

The ends a bit ropy, and may not be where you want to go.

(Avoiding the alliteration trap, what about the goosegogs of rant?)

Sociotard said...

I'm pretty sure Obama isn't going to pursue lasers all that much. He helped cut off that laser plane, after all.

Rob said...

Sorry, Tony, I'm pretty sure "John Brown's Body" and the "Battle Hymn" use the same tune.

All this sniping means I'm going to have to come up with a verse myself, doesn't it?

Rob said...

OK, in my opinion, if you're going to do extra verses of the Battle Hymn correctly, and have a chance to make something that produces a unifying trajectory in the American memespace, then stick to the themes of the song, and leave the first three lines of the chorus to sing the glory glories.

Remember, you're singing about What God Is Doing, and you can be as deist or polytheist as you like about it, I think.

Like this:

He has opened halls of learning to the mind of ev'ry man
He has liberated mothers and their daughters, in His Plan
He has stoked the fires for freedom in the heart of ev'ry land
His Work is marching on!

(g-g-h X 3, His Work is marching on!)

(and you can substitute "We" for "He" and "Our" for "His" if so desired.)

In the past ensuing decades we have learned to enter space
We have plumbed the depths of oceans, put diseases in their place
We have opened up the civitas to every sex and race!
Thus God is marching on!

OK, that's just two toss-offs. What do you think?

Ilithi Dragon said...

Very nice, especially the first one.

I can try setting up a website, though my skills aren't very 'leet, and I won't be able to get started on it for a week or two, because of things going on here. Any ideas/brainstorms for the website?

lc said...

Rob: Bravo! Encore!

(Oh, word verification is "nuttag"...)

Ilithi Dragon said...

Hmm... 'nuttag'... Peanut washer?
} ; = 8 P

David Brin said...

Rob, those two are terrific!

Needed verses that:

- anger toward those who try to monopolize his name

- faith that He cares more about our future than our past, and takes joy as our wisdom and power grows....

Rob said...

Thanks, very much!

But they're doggerel, really; all I was going for was a match of meter and theme.

Maybe I'll take a crack at those two other ideas. The tune is a massive earworm for me today.

Sociotard said...

Man murders couple for being "too liberal"


Davin Brin predicted 10,000 McVeighs/
A war of native terror to darken all our days/
Have we lost our future bright with Enlightenments rays?/
May right keep marching on!

Rob said...


Not quite; try this modification:

David Brin predicted horror in ten thousand Tim McVeighs
Wreaking wars of native terror, out to darken all our days
They have lost the sight of progress, blind to Reason's holy rays
Will right keep marching on?

Framed like that, we keep your sentiment, but match the meter of the tune.

Even so, though, it doesn't quite match with the pattern of the chorus, and will probably become anachronistic very quickly. And it's more about despair than the song's original call-to-action sense, but that would be quickly corrected by another verse.

rewinn said...

Dr. Brin must be joking about the laser blimps, since he hasn't bothered to respond to the problem Western military technology has had in fighting irregulars since Vietnam: intel.

Laser blimps or Marines on the ground have the same problem: is the dark-skinned man walking across the desert an evil communist seeking to sap your precious bodily fluids, or your comrade-in-arms seeking to hunt the same?

We never solved that problem in Vietnam, and it wasn't because we couldn't kill enough nonwhite people. The issue is not whether one is a rightwing SF fanboy or a limpwristed Liberace impersonator; the issue is the simple fact that the proposed weapon system simply creates more recruits for the badguys faster. Acting like the Russians is no way to win in Afghanistan.

Certainly the Taliban have an evil policy toward women, and granted that Dr. Brin agrees with Thom Hartmann that the feminization of politics and policy is necessary for passing the Threshold to a sustainable planet; it does not follow logically that turning the Taliban into feminists is the most urgent problem before us. One really interested in improving the status of women through force might divert those drones futilely seeking to distinguish good Afghans from bad Afghans to Darfur. Or to Saudi Arabia, where women are beheaded for complaining about being raped.

As for "killing them over there so the don't kill us over here" ... one might ask how an Afghan who doesn't realize that the world is round will be able to get through Customs at La Guardia? How many Afghans attacked us on 9/11 anyway?

Tony Fisk said...

OK, here's my take 2 (point about the chorus btw):

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.
He is sweeping out the foxholes where the gripes and rants get gnawed.
He hath shone a fateful light on every false and righteous word,
His truth is marching on.

Hmmm! Aren't (blinding) lasers banned by UN regulations? (Never mind the effect of some poor sod's clothes spontaneously combusting, there is the thicket of mens' laws to weave through)

entedda: a counter-hijack operation executed by an elite force of stuffed toys.

Tom said...

Just as a point of note Dr. Brin you really may want to re-examine your assertion that the Balkans intervention was "fantastically successful".

It has been anything but to date in terms of building functioning civil society.

The only thing accomplished might be politely described as kicking the can down the road a decade or two.

Going on two decades later there are still tens of thousands of troops stationed there, Bosnia will most likely come apart at the seams violently at some point in the next few years yet again, Kosovo is so far from being a functional state it's not even funny and with the Russians being back in the saddle again and trying to make a point that they're still a superpower you can safely expect the Serbs to start getting pushy as well in some of the territories bordering Serbia.

Out of sight out of mind does not make things fantastically successful. Give it under a decade and they'll most likely be knee deep in blood again. Faster if the EU decides it can't afford to keep footing the bill for what's effectively a wholly owned satrap in Kosovo.

David Brin said...

By all mans, tell this to the women and children of Sarajevo, Jace, Prizren, Skopje, who now see no difference between their peaceful lives and rebuilt schools and the way things were, when we intervened.

WIth all the former components of Yugoslavia working like mad (and yes, even the Serbs) to please bureaucrats from Strasbourg, modernizing and conforming laws to meet EU standards so that they can JOIN the EU... and three of the republics already having succeeded at the process of accession -- and with all the young people (yes, even Serbs) wanting ONE THING: an EU passport -- Your entire argument dissolves into:

"there are still some rough problems to resolve, and because of that, nothing CAN be done, and I refuse to even let my blinkered gaze notice what HAS been done. I'll just spout about things I know nothing about.

Your entire argument is "I'll bet it'll go to hell again!" Fine... you'll get to yatter if that happens. Problem is, you'll duck for cover if proved wrong.

CulturalEngineer said...

Coincidentally ran across this on Debategraph...

Let Taliban take over Kandahar and parts of Pashtunistan

Whichever variation of such an approach one takes... it seems there's some wisdom in getting them to fall into the trap we may have fallen into...

That is... let 'em bite of more than they can chew and then help 'em choke on it!

soc said...

Maybe I'm a bit slow, but I still don't see what the end game would be. You give the Taliban their own quasi-state (like Pakistan did in SWAT). At some point the Taliban resume violence (like in Pakistan) and a massive military operation is launched against them. The military wins, they take the field and the taliban scatter, returning to a guerilla war.

What next?

David Brin said...

Advantages include: proving yet again that they have no plan/ability to actually govern, allowing all NON-Pashtunistan parts to have a breather in which to develop, drawing foes out of the passes (which they must hand over to get Kandahar), accentuating the Pashtuni nature of the insurgency, and getting large numbers to cluster and fight in the open.

soc said...


Sounds good but I'm drawn to the experience across the border. When the taliban first took swat, they were welcomed by the people. Then the beheading and blowing up of girl's schools began. The infamous video of that teenage girl being flogged while being held down by taliban goons sent a wave of revulsion through Pakistan.

When the Pakistani military went in, the mission was hugely popular. The people of swat were glad to be rid of the very people they had initially welcomed.

So far so good. All this makes the plan you propose promising.

But look at Pakistan now. Well over a 150 have been killed in the last two weeks by terrorist attacks. Even the very heart of the Pakistani military in Rawalpindi isn't immune.

Pakistan gave the taliban what they wanted in swat, but the taliban reneged on the deal and have launched one viscious attack after another. I'm not convinced these people can be contained. They'll break any deal you sign with them and spread chaos and insecurity every chance they get.

In short, the taliban have proven in swat, and when they had most of Afghanistan before 2002, that they have no plan/ability to govern, but they are no less a force because of it. They will never allow anyone a breather for development and will break any deal they may have signed saying otherwise.

Oh, and one other thing. How to counter the colonialism narrative? The one that says this is just another example of the big bad west pursuing its colonial interests. The taliban may be a nasty bunch but they're fighting invading foreigners so they're not all bad. The Americans want Afghanistan just so that they can build a large gas pipeline from the Caspian Sea to the Persian Gulf. etc.

Anonymous said...

The political cost of intentionally abandoning a section of Afghanistan is pretty high. When insurgants can take and hold, for instance, a provincial capital, they gain credibility. Gulf donors, potential recruits etc notice this. And in a YouTube world it takes very little substance to look successful.

As to laser or even artillery based interdiction aeries? Dien Bien Phu redux.

As a good conservative I am loathe to critize the foreign policy of my president, but I think we would all be happier if he would elucidate it stongly and soon. This fussing about until a fully legitimate govenment stands in Kabul is wasting some precious time. Heck, sez the Taliban, just keep destabilizing whoever gets elected.

In Obama's favor I will say that his standing in the Muslim world could help deter at least donors, if not jihadi. And that the rock star popularity that makes Americans a little queasy really ought to translate to a few more european troops....

In fact, if you are cold hearted enough to set aside the very real human cost, it is beneficial for smaller countries to have their military involved. Just as excessive use of your army erodes it from overuse, avoiding all possible combat tends to rot an army from within. At least they should be, and mostly are, sending their special forces over. To their considerable benefit as regards combat experience.

But lets not ever forget that human cost in these philosophical maunderings.


David Brin said...

On to next posting!

rr8004 said...

You may have not intended to do so, but I think you have managed to express the state of mind that a lot of people are in. The sense of wanting to help, but not knowing how or where, is something a lot of us are going through. Please come visit my site Local Business Directory Of Dallas U.S.A. when you got time.

farout said...

I posted this particular blog article link on my military school forum thinking that the uber conservative folks on the forum would appreciate the article.

Nope, all they can do is deflect and talk about how liberal the articles are, that they are so untrue, and then they go into 'the world is going to hell' rant. the normal response I tend to get when I post liberal logic. Some thangs have not changed over the last several decades.

tom.friell said...

Sadly Dr. Brin your information on the Balkans appears to be out of date by about six or seven years.

It's not a case of what may happen over the next few years it's what's occurring right now.

Thanks to the Dayton accords Bosnia is locked into the same sort of ethnic power sharing arrangement that has pretty much destroyed Lebanon. Not one ethnic group trusts another any farther than they did 15 years ago. Period.

Kosovo is chafing under EULEX rule with increasing amounts of nationalist sentiments resulting in groups like the Vetevendosje committing acts of vandalism and sabotage against EU steadily increasing over the last three years more or less with tacit sanction from the Kosovo government in Pristina who want the EU out.

Which also leads to all sorts of interesting "Greater Albania" territorial claims from groups like the ANA if the EU leaves not to mention leaving whats effectively a functioning kleptocracy and one of Europe's largest organized smuggling hubs unsupervised.

With Serbia even the most pro-EU politicians are starting to wonder why they're bothering with EU membership when all their efforts just lead to yet mote moving targets and continual empty rhetoric from people like Biden.

The Russians at least have had the grace to show up with cheque in hand and more if you want to look into the deals the Sergei Shoigu signed yesterday. And Shiogu is a mover and shaker in the world of Russian Silovki. No empty Biden-esque rhetoric there.

But to put this another way with regards to Afghanistan... if we still have 150k troops in country in 15 years and they are the only thing keeping the locals who have supposedly signed up to embrace "democracy" and all that great other stuff that goes along with it from going right back to killing each other is that by your definition fantastically successful?

rr8004 said...

Wow! Thank you! I always wanted to write in my site something like that. Can I take part of your post to my blog?
Please come visit my site Texas TX Phone Directory when you got time.

rr8004 said...

Wow! Thank you! I always wanted to write in my site something like that. Can I take part of your post to my blog?
Please come visit my site San Diego Business Directory when you got time.

eda said...



rr8004 said...

Hey congrats on the new posting come out
btw i love your blog although i have just stumbled upon it =)
Love the new pictures you got there! Please come visit my site Boston Massachusetts MA when you got time.

rr8004 said...

love your blog! Very cool! Please come visit my site Business Reviews Of Seattle City when you got time.

anthropos said...

"Fanatics hurrying to Kandahar and moderates moving out. Especially any woman with any sense of pride or self-preservation. Drawing fanatics away from the rest of Afghanistan and Pakistan and concentrating them in a place that finds itself almost without women? Um... what's not to like?"

Overall, your plan is merely ordinarily Machiavellian - but this quote has to be one of the stupidest things I've read in a long time. What do you think life is likely to be like for a woman in the middle of Kandahar who decides to move to Kabul on her own, without some handy male relative to bring along? Or for the daughter or wife of a "fanatic hurrying to Kandahar" who decides she'll stay behind?

資訊交流 said...

搬家公司 桃園房屋仲介 桃園房屋買賣 桃園房屋 醫學美容診所 淨膚雷射 雷射溶脂 飛梭雷射 微晶瓷 植髮 團體服 團體服訂做 醫學美容診所 肉毒桿菌 肉毒桿菌瘦臉 醫學美容 整型診所 美國月子中心 月子中心 seo 關鍵字廣告 關鍵字 google關鍵字廣告 關鍵字行銷 網路行銷 通姦 徵信社 外遇 徵信 徵信公司 出軌 清潔公司 搬家公司 搬家公司 台北搬家公司 新竹搬家公司 桃園搬家公司 台北搬家公司 整形 韓風整形 整形 韓風整形 老人癡呆症 情緒管理 訂房網 線上訂房 宜蘭民宿 宜蘭住宿 網路訂房 宜蘭飯店 新娘祕書 清潔公司 植牙 裝潢 室內設計 油漆粉刷 油漆工 油漆工程 洗鞋加盟 洗包包加盟 洗包包 創業加盟店 早餐店加盟 開店創業 創業開店 結婚金飾 鑽石婚戒 通水管 通水管 通馬桶 抽水肥 包通 馬桶不通 通馬桶 通水管 清水溝 沙發 室內設計公司 室內設計 室內裝潢設計 裝潢設計 澳門自由行 香港自由行

資訊交流 said...

太陽能熱水器 三久 櫻花牌熱水器 熱水器 省電熱水器 衛浴設備 節能減碳 電熱水器 中古車 二手車 環保袋 環保袋 環保袋 十分瀑布 台北旅遊網 台北民宿 平溪 景觀餐廳 薰衣草花園 花園餐廳 螢火蟲 渡假村 鐵道之旅 團體服 滷味 滷味加盟 滷味批發 滷味食材 滷味宅配 滷雞翅 滷雞腳 健康滷味 魯味 加盟創業 慈善 義賣 義賣活動 慈善機構 公益彩券 健康食品 慈善基金會 公益團體 愛心捐款 捐款 美白 皺紋 減肥 禿頭 醫學美容 電波拉皮 雷射溶脂 肉毒桿菌 玻尿酸 痘疤 婦產科診所 室內設計 埋線 內分泌失調 黃體不足 針灸減肥 坐月子中心 婦產科 月子中心 月子餐 飛梭雷射 太陽能熱水器 太陽能 三久太陽能 三久 身體檢查 健康檢查 全身健康檢查

資訊交流 said...

玫瑰花束 盆栽 網路花店 花店 鍛造 樓梯扶手 欄杆 鐵門 採光罩 熱水器 蘭花 化糞池 抽化糞池 抽水肥 水管不通 洗水塔 消毒 通水管 通馬桶 馬桶 馬桶不通 上順旅行社 五福旅行社 大興旅行社 天喜旅行社 天福旅行社 日本旅行社 日本旅遊 日本機票 日本自由行 日本訂房 包通 抽化糞池 抽水肥 水管不通 洗水塔 清水溝 通水管 通馬桶 馬桶 馬桶不通 便宜機票 國內旅遊 國外旅遊 國外機票 團體旅遊 直航機票 簽證 自由行 訂房 雄獅旅遊 汽車美容 汽車美容 三久太陽能 太陽能

資訊交流 said...

黃金價格查詢 貸款 信用貸款 房屋貸款 剖腹生產 命理網 姓名學 姓名配對 星座 星座運勢 算命 開運印章 風水 外遇 徵信 徵信社 外遇 徵信 徵信社 外遇 徵信 徵信社 外遇 徵信 徵信社 外遇 徵信 徵信社 外遇 徵信 徵信社 清潔公司 壁癌 屋頂防水 屋頂隔熱 抓漏 油漆 浴室 漏水 舊屋翻新 裝潢 防水工程 壁癌 健康飲食 台北素食餐廳 吃素 團購美食 水餃 素食 素食料理 素食水餃 素食食譜 素食餐廳 交友 婚友 婚友社 婚友聯誼 婚友聯誼社 愛情 愛情公寓 相親 相親銀行 聯誼 Hook and Loop 婚禮佈置 情人花束 新竹花店 會場佈置 氣球佈置

資訊交流 said...

二手車 環保袋 肉毒桿菌 健檢 醫學美容 淨膚雷射 汽車美容 法拍屋 水餃 清潔公司 實驗動物 到府坐月子 坐月子 坐月子中心 坐月子餐 孕婦 月子餐 到府坐月子 坐月子 坐月子中心 坐月子中心台中 坐月子中心台北 月子餐 月子中心 坐月子餐 月子餐外送 月子餐食譜 統一發票9 10月 金價 統一發票9 10月 找工作 統一發票7 8月 求職 1111求職人力銀行 104求職人力銀行 104人力銀行 統一發票5 6月 104人力銀行 104求職人力銀行 塑膠袋 統一發票1 2月 塑膠袋批發 塑膠袋工廠 金價 黃金價格 金價查詢 黃金買賣 黃金 統一發票3 4月 1111人力銀行 104求職人力銀行 1111人力銀行求職 黃金價格查詢 中古車買賣 塑膠袋 統一發票9 10月 塑膠袋批發 中古車 中古車買賣 台北人力銀行 金價查詢 sum中古車 中古車 今日金價

資訊交流 said...

消防公司 地板施工 超耐磨地板 店面出租 乳癌 全身健康檢查 肝癌 健康檢查 身體檢查 飛梭雷射 雷射溶脂 直航機票 自由行 三久 太陽能 三久太陽能 太陽能熱水器 環保袋 電波拉皮 hand dryer 電波拉皮 雷射溶脂 肉毒桿菌 系統家具 台中漆彈場 漆彈 團體服 美國月子中心 團體服 團體服 團體服 T恤 圍裙 POLO衫 班服 團體服創意 熱轉印 團體服訂做 宜蘭民宿 關鍵字廣告 seo 網路廣告 網路行銷 seo 網站設計 seo 線上客服 seo 網頁設計 seo 網頁設計公司 網路行銷 網路行銷 中古車 涼麵 食品批發 拉麵 T恤 慈善 慈善基金會 慈善機構 租辦公室 租店面 買辦公室 店面租賃 店面出租 店面出售 花茶 花草茶 養生茶 招牌 led招牌 招牌製作 美國月子中心 保養 美國月子中心

資訊交流 said...

OBU 投審會 會計師事務所 會計師 工商登記 公司登記 包子 肉粽 宅配美食 四神湯 搬家公司 訂房網花東旅遊 桃園土地 桃園房屋仲介 桃園房屋 桃園房屋網 桃園房屋買賣 漆彈 搬家公司 會場設計 展場設計 會場設計 展場設計 展覽設計 消防設備 消防設備 機電 崴立機電 牙齒美白 植牙 牙周病治療方法 植牙費用 牙周病 微晶瓷 3D飛梭雷射 淨膚雷射 光纖美白除毛 肉毒桿菌除皺 紙盒印刷 紙袋包裝 包裝紙盒 手提紙袋 紙袋印刷 紙袋工廠 包裝紙袋 紙盒訂裝 手提袋 包裝盒 股票教學 股市分析 股市億萬贏家 股票軟體 股票行情 ferrari 賣車 賓士 lexus 二手車 中古車 Bmw 中古車買賣 保時捷 法拉利 福利 清潔公司 汽車借款 當鋪 當舖 借錢 貸款 票貼 二胎 融資 工商融資 支票貼現 借款 汽車借款 汽車貸款 徵信 徵信社 外遇 彌月送禮 喜餅 喜餅禮盒 喜餅價格 訂婚禮盒 訂婚喜餅 彌月蛋糕

資訊交流 said...

彌月禮盒 彌月禮 彌月 離婚 法律事務所 債物 律師事務所 律師 寵物醫院 獸醫 獸醫院 寵物住宿 白內障 心絲蟲 腎衰竭 狗皮膚病 動物醫院 獸醫師 創業鞋之澡堂 洗鞋子 洗包包加盟 洗鞋店 加盟 洗鞋 洗包包 洗鞋加盟 酒店式公寓 台北民宿 日租套房 台北日租 apartment 太平山民宿 宜蘭民宿推薦 宜蘭民宿 宜蘭旅遊 宜蘭住宿 Disposable plastic cups Disposable plastic cups Disposable products Plastic Drinking Cups ECO products Biodegradable plastic PLA polylactic acid Biodegradable Plastic Cup Plastic manufacturer 懷孕 坐月子 坐月子食譜 新竹坐月子中心 坐月子中心 坐月子餐 月子餐 月子餐外送 外送月子餐 素食月子餐 飛梭雷射 柔膚雷射 玻尿酸 皮膚科 皮膚科診所 肉毒桿菌 肉毒桿菌瘦臉 脈衝光 除斑 Flex PCB PCB RF PCB Rigid-Flex PCB Electronic PCB

資訊交流 said...

Industrial PCB Heavy Copper PCB Microwave PCB Medical PCB Telecom PCB 泡菜 團購美食 創業加盟 水餃 湯包 加盟創業 冷凍宅配 宅配美食 手工水餃 中華湯包 mini usb DC Jack tact switch Slide switch Phone Jack USB connector RCA Jack開 關 製網 菱形網 不鏽鋼網 金屬網 衝孔網 菱型網 不鏽鋼 沖孔網 喇叭網 金屬擴張網 壯陽 成人用品 壯陽食品 早洩 情趣用品 春藥 壯陽藥品 持久 催情 增大 模具廠 塑膠射出成型 模具 Odm 塑膠射出模具 Oem代工廠 塑膠射出 塑膠射出廠 模具設計 Precision Mold Light guide panels Plastic Products Mold design Plastic injection Mold developmentInjection Mold Plastic injection molding Injection molding ISO9001認證 射出成形 塑膠製成品塑膠模具設計 模具開發 精密射出 縫衣機塑件 無塵室射出 膠框導光板 房屋仲介 法拍屋 法拍 法拍屋查詢系統 104法拍網 信義房屋 房屋買賣 台北法拍屋

資訊交流 said...

板橋法拍屋 大台北法拍屋 原裝進口燈飾 流行燈飾 水晶燈 進口燈飾 吊燈 led燈 燈飾 燈具 照明 磁鐵 消毒 抽水肥 抽化糞池 化糞池 通馬桶 馬桶不通 通水管 水管不通 水管不通 化糞池清理 洗水塔 加盟創業 創業 加盟 早餐店加盟 創業加盟 pe膜 冬令營 冬令營 冬令營禮盒包裝 化妝品包 裝 紙盒 禮盒 化妝品盒 藥盒 彩盒 禮盒 印刷供應商 彩色盒 禮盒 設計 網版印刷 紙盒工廠 印刷公司 印刷 3D立體印刷 印刷服務 彩色印刷 包裝 設計breading machine food processing equipment frying machine meat processing equipment food processing mixers food forming patty machine boiling machine breading machine vegetable machine日立冷氣 電腦回收 回收 回收電腦 資源回收

資訊交流 said...

教育訓練 品質管理 Ohsas 18001 iso認證 iso

陳帥 said...

金價查詢 月子餐 月子中心 坐月子餐 月子餐外送 月子餐食譜 統一發票9 10月 金價 統一發票9 10月 找工作 統一發票7 8月 求職 1111求職人力銀行 104求職人力銀行 104人力銀行 統一發票5 6月 104人力銀行 104求職人力銀行 塑膠袋 統一發票1 2月 金價 黃金價格 金價查詢 黃金買賣 環保袋 肉毒桿菌 黃金 統一發票3 4月 坐月子 sum中古車 1111人力銀行 104求職人力銀行 1111人力銀行求職 黃金價格查詢 中古車買賣 塑膠袋 統一發票9 10月 塑膠袋批發 中古車 中古車買賣消防公司 地板施工 網路廣告 網路行銷

陳帥 said...

素食餐廳 交友 婚友 婚友社 婚友聯誼 愛情公寓 相親 相親銀行 聯誼 命理網 姓名學Hook and Loop 婚禮佈置 情人花束 新竹花店婚友聯誼社 愛情會場佈置 氣球佈置二手車健檢 醫學美容 淨膚雷射 汽車美容 法拍屋 水餃 清潔公司 塑膠袋批發 塑膠袋工廠 實驗動物 到府坐月子 坐月子 坐月子中心 坐月子餐 孕婦 月子餐 到府坐月子 中古車 今日金價 坐月子中心 坐月子中心台中 坐月子中心台北 台北人力銀行

陳帥 said...

房屋貸款 剖腹生產 姓名配對 星座 星座運勢 算命 素食料理 素食水餃 開運印章 風水 外遇 徵信 壁癌 屋頂防水 屋頂隔熱 抓漏 油漆 徵信社 外遇 徵信 徵信社 外遇 徵信 徵信社 外遇 徵信 徵信社 外遇 徵信 徵信社 外遇 徵信 徵信社 清潔公司浴室 漏水 舊屋翻新 裝潢 防水工程 壁癌 健康飲食 台北素食餐廳 吃素 團購美食 水餃 素食素食食譜

陳帥 said...

馬桶 馬桶不通 國外旅遊 國外機票 團體旅遊 直航機票 簽證熱水器 蘭花 化糞池 抽化糞池 便宜機票 國內旅遊 抽水肥 太陽能 水管不通 洗水塔 消毒 通水管 通馬桶 馬桶 馬桶不通 上順旅行社 五福旅行社 大興旅行社 天喜旅行社 天福旅行社 日本旅行社 日本旅遊 日本機票 日本自由行 日本訂房 包通 抽化糞池 抽水肥 水管不通 洗水塔 自由行 訂房 雄獅旅遊 汽車美容 汽車美容 三久太陽能黃金價格查詢 貸款 信用貸款

rr8004 said...

She’s really interested in this subject. Thanks again… Please come visit my site Texas TX Phone Directory when you got time.
Well, nice article buddy… Someone will love to read this infor if I tell her about this.

rr8004 said...

She’s really interested in this subject. Thanks again… Please come visit my site Laredo Phone Book when you got time.

rr8004 said...

Awesome! I have read a lot on this topic, but you definitely give it a good vibe. This is a great post. Will be back to read more! Please come visit my site Local Business Directory Of Aurora U.S.A. when you

rr8004 said...

Awesome! I have read a lot on this topic, but you definitely give it a good vibe. This is a great post. Will be back to read more! Please come visit my site Aurora City Directory when you

rr8004 said...

I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future. Please come visit my site Madison Phone Book when you

rr8004 said...

I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future. Please come visit my site Madison Business Directory Forum Blog Classifieds when you

Edwin said...

Buy Kamagra
Earn Google
Viagra Cialis
Cheap Kamagra
Cheap Viagra
Cheap Cialis
Make Money on Google
M65 Jacket
M65 Field Jacket
Airline Dog Carrier
Airline Dog Carriers
Viagra Cialis
Earn Google
Airline Dog Carrier
Airline Dog Carriers
Airline Approved Dog Carriers
ED Hardy Wholesale
Copy DVD Software
How to Send Fax
14k Yellow Gold
Redneck Costume
14k Gold Heart
Tandem Baby Stroller

rr8004 said...

Yeah it is a great and nice article looking forward to have such article it is so useful. Please come visit my site City Guide Plano when you got time.

rr8004 said...

Yeah it is a great and nice article looking forward to have such article it is so useful. Please come visit my site Business Resources Comprehensive Listings when you got time.

Anonymous said...

laser pointer|投影機|整形外科|春藥|電波拉皮|美白針|醫學美容|花蓮民宿|室內裝潢|清潔公司|Maternity Clothes|室內設計|室內設計|壯陽藥品

raoliming2 said...

louis vuitton
replica handbags
balenciaga replica handbags
chanel replica handbags
chloe replica handbags
fendi replica handbags
gucci replica handbags
hermes replica handbags
louis vuitton replica handbags
miumiu replica handbags
prada replica handbags
ysl replica handbags
chanel replica handbags
gucci replica handbags
louis vuitton replica handbags
balenciaga replica handbags
chanel replica handbags
chloe replica handbags
fendi replica handbags
gucci replica handbags
hermes replica handbags
louis vuitton replica handbags
miumiu replica handbags
prada replica handbags
ysl replica handbags
replica handbags
replica handbags
fake designer handbags
discount replica handbags
replica handbags
replica handbags
replica handbags
designer replica handbags
replica handbags
replica handbags
replica handbags
fake replica handbags
fake replica handbags
replica handbags
replica handbags

Angel said...

buy viagra

viagra online

generic viagra

qishaya said...

Original christian shoes are first category in alter. They are so much appealing louboutin shoes so, ample of women can not pause to get their hands on them. cheap christian louboutin However, these shoes are not economical. christian louboutin So adequate of women cannot present these shoes. christian louboutin heels Christian Louboutin Replica is presenting the textbook thing for these people. christian louboutin sandals It is present masses of fashionable shoes in an economical rate. christian pumps You know that unique shoes are posh to buy. christian sandals Nevertheless do not think that exchange a shoe with christian louboutin pumps magnificent create of top trait is hard. Now a time model are presented. louboutin pumps But if you hardship attribute cargo look discount christian louboutin for these replicas in a trustworthy position & set an order for your beloved shoes christian louboutin sale

izle-tr said...

şarkı dinle
justin tv
porno video

sohbetmerkezi said...

Sesli sohbet Sesli chat
Seslisohbet Seslichat
Sesli sohbet siteleri Sesli chat siteleri
Sesli Chat
Sohbet Sesli siteler
Sohbet siteleri Chat siteleri
Sohbet merkezi chat merkezi
Sesli merkezi sesli Sohbet merkezi
Sesli chat merkezi Sohbetmerkezi
Sesli Sohbet Sesli Chat
SesliSohbet Sesli chat siteleri
Sesli sohbet siteleri SesliChat
Sesli Sesli siteler
Seslimuhabbet sesli muhabbet
sesli sohbet sesli chat siteleri
sesli sohbet siteleri sesli chat
seslisohbet seslichat
seslikent sesli kent
sesli sohbet sesli sohbet siteleri
sesli chat sesli chat siteleri
seslisohbet seslichat

britney sayers said...

Costa rica tours, costa rica fishing, jaco fishing charters, costa rica whale watching, costa rica dolphin watching, costa rica party boat, panama fishing, fishing costa rica los suenos, los suenos fishing charters, costa rica fishing los suenos, los suenos costa rica fishing, costa rica los suenos fishing, fishing costa rica los suenos, los suenos fishing charters, costa rica fishing los suenos, los suenos costa rica fishing charters, costa rica los suenos fishing, Los suenos fishing, Fishing costa rica los suenos, costa rica vacations rentals, costa rica rent a car, Costa Rica Rafting, taxi boat montezuma,

kobeli said...

Christian Louboutin Pumps
michael jordan shoes
Mens Polo Shirts
Mlb Jerseys

Manolo blahnik shoes
jordan basketball shoes
Lacoste Polo Shirts
Nba jerseys

Christian Louboutin Shoes Sale
jordan shoes sale
Wholesale Polo Shirts
Authentic Nhl jerseys

Jimmy Choo shoes
air jordan shoes sale
Cheap Polo Shirts
Authentic Mlb Jerseys

Chanel Shoes
michael jordan shoes sale
Cheap Ralph Lauren Polo Shirts
Authentic Nba jerseys

Mini Ugg Boots
Nightfall Uggs
Chanel Shoes
Nightfall Uggs
Stripe Cable Ugg Boots
Gucci Shoes

Affordable seo services said...

Great webpage! I dont imagine Ive seen every one of the angles of this theme the way in which youve pointed them out. Youre a accurate star, a rock star guy. Vending Machine Locators Youve got a great deal to say and know so much about the subject that i think you ought to just teach a class about it. Vending Machine Locator,nike dunks

aiya said...

Office 2010
Microsoft Office 2010
Microsoft word
Office 2007
Microsoft Office
Microsoft Office 2007
Office 2007 key
Office 2007 download
Office 2007 Professional
Outlook 2010
Microsoft outlook
Microsoft outlook 2010
Windows 7

zhuzhulee said...

PDF Créateur
TIFF en PDF Convertisseur
Texte en PDF Convertisseur
PowerPoint en PDF Convertisseur
image en PDF convertisseur
Excel en PDF Convertisseur
CHM en PDF Convertisseur
Word en PDF Convertisseur

Anonymous said...


izle-tr said...

facebook video
porno izle

Steve Emanuel said...

I am thoroughly convinced in this said post. I am currently searching for ways in which I could enhance my knowledge in this said topic you have posted here. It does help me a lot knowing that you have shared this information here freely. I love the way the people here interact and shared their opinions too. I would love to track your future posts pertaining to the said topic we are able to read. penis enlargement or penis enlargement pills

VigRX Plus said...

Thanks for taking the time to discuss this, I feel strongly about information and love learning more on this. If possible, as you gain expertise, It is extremely helpful for me. would you mind updating your blog with more information

Anonymous said...

he actual Florida Assistant involving Talk about web site says Baja Sportfishing's enterprise license has become suspended Benjamin Pineda Gomez explained he'd no title Ed Hardy or information regarding the person exactly who passed on Beach Firm spokesperson Alan Jeffers claimed there were virtually no strong interconnection between all those Discount Burberry Cheap troubles and also the pipeline failingRadiohead's attraction with Tiongkok is obvious from your huge following the weibo swiftly received "We have to incorporate harder nike air jordan clearance safety expectations Other individuals incorporate Tom Luxury cruise, Microsof company president Bill gates as well as Basketball players Ralph Artest along with Kevin Garnett authentic nike air jordan even though the amount of his or her followers path a lot at the rear of Chinese famous people"Is this kind of the real Air Jordan Cheap deal?Inch consumer BrattyB said"We possess each thus looked forward to this present day, in addition to finding a little more about the lovely tropical Cheap Air Max isle,Inch he saidThe particular 20-year-old Silvertip pipe delivered Forty five,000 kegs daily to a refinery inside Billings along any course that will goes by Discount Burberry underneath the lake

Anonymous said...

escort bayan
film izle
film izle

White spots on skin said...

You own a very interesting blog.Migraine headache Smooth and glowing skin Heartburn relief Knee pain remedies Dandruff treatment Cucumber health benefits Dry skin patches Health benefits of salt Cold sores Home remedies for hip pain Getting rid of cellulite Common digestive disorders Prevent candida yeast infection Teeth whitening Back pain remedies Garlic benefits Blackheads Managing lupus Piles remediesPiles remedies Heart attack

elizabeth bernot said...

Tours Costa Rica

Costa Rica Tours

saim said...

I think more people need to read blogs like this. Its so important to know how to construct a great blog to get people interested and you’ve done just that. The content is great, the videos are perfect for what you’re trying to say. Awesome, man.

natural supplements

kimberly sayer said...

Costa Rica Jaco Tours

Costa Rica Guanacaste Tours

Costa Rica La Fortuna Tours

0Zero7 said...

This is my Good luck that I found your post which is according to my search and topic.
web hosting Pakistan

0Zero7 said...

The subject is too interesting, thanks for sharing
dc locksmith

Avcı Mimarlık said...

Gaziantep Escort
Adana Escort
Mersin Escort
İzmit Escort
kocaeli Escort
Bodrum Escort

Özgür Akdağ said...

Adana Escort
Adana Escort Bayan
Adana Eskort
Escort Adana

sofia said...

Dear friend, very happy to see your blog. Thank you so much for making Blog.
Model Escorts Ahmedabad, Kolkata Independent Escorts, Goa Escort, Goa Escorts, Kolkata Escorts, Mumbai escorts, Ahmedabad Escorts, Bangalore massage service, Bangalore Massage, Escorts in goa, Ahmedabad Escorts, Escorts in goa, independent Escorts in Kolkata , Mumbai call-girls, independent Callgirls Kolkata, escorts ahmedabad, gigolo Bangalore, massage bangalore, Goa Escorts Service, Goa call-girls, Kolkata independent callgirls, Mumbai escort, Escorts In Ahmedabad, independent massage Bangalore, hi profile female massage bangalore, Russian Escorts in Goa, Goa independent escorts, Escorts in Ahmedabad, Kolkata Escorts, escorts in mumbai, Ahmedabad call-girls, erotic massage bangalore, Bangalore male escorts, Ahmedabad Escort, Goa independent escorts, Russian Escorts in Goa, Kolkata Escort, Mumbai independent escorts, Independent Model Escorts Kolkata, Independent model Ahmedabad, goa model escort, goa collage girl escorts, goa independent escorts, goa female escorts, female escorts in goa, cheap escorts in goa, goa model escorts

spaaqua19 said...

awesome your blog and shared article, its called women empowerment on the world. I am Sejal Arora from Delhi city work for social female organization to improve their passion and lifestyle.

spaaqua19 said...

I am Sejal Arora work in Delhi NCR as social model and VIP prostitute girl in Asia's most beautiful city. For more about our genuine and certified services visit on: exclusive Delhi escort service | female escort agency in Delhi | VIP Indian escorts | independent escort in Delhi | erotic Delhi escort agency | Delhi top escort services | Delhi independent escorts and much more.