tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post7895192905607029367..comments2024-03-29T00:39:31.629-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Fresh perspectives on evolution... and more science!David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger92125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-22055404958552660412019-03-01T15:02:33.060-08:002019-03-01T15:02:33.060-08:00Got into it on a social media platform a while bac...Got into it on a social media platform a while back with an earnest individual who was advocating for the abolishment of government, because all our problems with resources & scarcity, and taking care of children, the old & the sick could all be solved if ... <br /><br />... wait for it ... <br /><br />We all just abandoned this silly idea of living in our own houses, or family members moving from their place of birth, and all families just housed themselves under one roof. Because of course the family unit is the holiest of the holy, the thing which shall save us all from the EEBIL GUBMINT! <br /><br />I thought about bringing up the fact that not all families take care of each other; that forcing people to live under the same roof with abusive family members leads to homicide. <br /><br />There's a streak of crypto-libertarians that have these Magical Thinking theories, based upon their own lived experience and everything that their cloistered Bible Study Classes have pounded into their heads, reinforced by 40 years of propaganda that All Government Is Evil All The Time So It Must Be Abolished Because Taxation Is Theft wharrrragarble. <br /><br />I am no longer sure that we can operate as a society when a significant percentage of the population is this delusional. du Lachttp://davidlafontaine.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-54701558116123629332019-02-28T15:27:25.193-08:002019-02-28T15:27:25.193-08:00I agree about investment into agricultural researc...I agree about investment into agricultural research. We aren't getting off this planet any time soon (or in any numbers large enough to be worth talking about), so investment in ecologically sustainable practices and food supplies is critical.Jack E Holt IIIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14598225473238781005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-18111456237580631322019-02-27T23:17:10.613-08:002019-02-27T23:17:10.613-08:00>> David Brin said...
\\jim, sorry, but you ...>> David Brin said...<br />\\jim, sorry, but you are quite wrong. You cannot ask 8 billion people to live in nature communes.<br /><br />Jim... m-m-m, David. And what about ocean? Communities that can live in open ocean. On artifical islands. Freely migrating. Having all supplyes from ocean itself? ;)<br /><br /><br />>> Alfred Differ said...<br />\\The poverty of imagination results in a failure to recognize just how similar most of us are.<br /><br />Inability to percieve the "heavenly God Father" -- its quite striking desimilarity.<br />There was religious wars because of it.<br /><br />And there is much more such differs between semi-homogenious religious folks and ever divercifing atheists. ;)<br /><br /><br />>> jim said...<br />\\I think it is far better for us to focus on developing more mutually beneficial relationships with the other living beings on this planet.<br /><br />Yep. Like with moskitos and fleas. :)<br /><br /><br />>> Daniel Duffy said...<br /><br />Kudos for your info! It was interesting. What is rare here.<br /><br />\\Then again this would be a cool in the next 007 film:<br /><br />They not doing it in 007 films anymore. (sad) :)<br /><br /><br />>> Larry Hart said...<br />\\ If I had only known thirty years ago how to fake sincerity like that... :)<br /><br />Well... you said it.<br />As would I know how to show "sincerity" the "dr.Brin's way". :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-70711717406896887282019-02-27T13:11:55.414-08:002019-02-27T13:11:55.414-08:00Well David I am just going to ask you to withhold ...Well David I am just going to ask you to withhold judgment. <br />I have only touched on the broad theme of the story, what you think I am proposing and what I am actually proposing may be quite different.<br /><br />I will make sure I send you a copy, my way of saying thank you for the Uplift series. jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07865068658069680309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-30064714234000383102019-02-27T12:55:08.913-08:002019-02-27T12:55:08.913-08:00onward
onwardonward<br /><br />onwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-4708246602545034222019-02-27T12:54:59.162-08:002019-02-27T12:54:59.162-08:00jim, sorry, but you are quite wrong. You cannot as...jim, sorry, but you are quite wrong. You cannot ask 8 billion people to live in nature communes. It is, in fact, a dangerously inefficient approach that puts each settlement into daily conflict with nature. Ironically, cities have been benefiting nature by drawing populations away from Her. If we can truly develop the technologies for cities to largely power and feed themselves with urban agriculture, then these compact prototype space colonies could teach us how to return Earth largely to nature. Just eliminating red meat could take us a long way.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-27319774002267636362019-02-27T12:52:06.306-08:002019-02-27T12:52:06.306-08:00Dr Brin:
Why, oh why do none of the liberal pols ...Dr Brin:<br /><i><br />Why, oh why do none of the liberal pols never run through a long list of past cult-fetish denialisms of the right? Tobacco is good for you! Cars don't cause smog! Negroes can't read! It's GOOD that rivers are catching fire! Wage war on demon marijuana, sending a guy with one joint to prison for ten years! Jail homos! Women can't think for half of any month. Do you doubt I could go on?<br /></i><br /><br />Many right-wingers of the Trump variety would continue to agree with every one of those assertions. Rather than be ashamed of having supported such statements in the past, they would double-down on how true those things really are.Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-51229915058378805942019-02-27T12:05:36.762-08:002019-02-27T12:05:36.762-08:00Tim,
I think you may be assuming that the building...Tim,<br />I think you may be assuming that the building of mutually beneficial relationships with the other living beings on the earth means that we would have to greatly reduce our population.<br /><br />Hopefully next year when THE MOON LOTUS (provisional title) comes out you will reassess that assumption. It is a story that shows it might be possible for ~10 billion people to live in ecologically sustainable way with a good quality of life if we change the way we relate to the rest of the living world.<br />jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07865068658069680309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62169671713330799942019-02-27T11:40:07.599-08:002019-02-27T11:40:07.599-08:00The thing about the "Green dream", not m... The thing about the "Green dream", not many people could do it. Transitioning to the supportable population levels would be problematic, and there'd be no guarantee that a future generation wouldn't turn their backs on that lifestyle.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-4644290204693205172019-02-27T11:30:26.897-08:002019-02-27T11:30:26.897-08:00jim,
Nah, that was just a good natured jab at the...jim,<br /><br /><i>Nah, that was just a good natured jab at the atheists here.</i><br /><br />Mmmm.... Okay. I'll take it as such. I'll also recognize the poverty of imagination it suggests too. Many of us don't see the world as cold, dead, and meaningless. Many of us do not live in a mental world that is all that different from where theists live.<br /><br />Imagine two sets of real number segments. [0, 1) and [0, 1]<br />All the real from zero to one, but one set leaves out one. Closed set at one end... open at the other for the set without 1.<br />Someone using the open set, though, has a number that can fill in for 1. It's 0.999...<br /><br />Some of us atheists feel no need to include the limit God in our set of transcendentals. We have the others, though, thus the world isn't cold, dead, or meaningless. If we leave out any particular one or a finite number of them, there really isn't much difference. We have substitutes that function well enough.<br /><br />The poverty of imagination results in a failure to recognize just how similar most of us are.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-24561910438254382382019-02-27T10:52:44.047-08:002019-02-27T10:52:44.047-08:00Well Tim,
For me the one inescapable truth is that...Well Tim,<br />For me the one inescapable truth is that human beings have always been and will always be part of the natural living world. Trying to wall ourselves off from the rest of the living world seems to me be a kind of death /extinction wish. <br /><br />I think it is far better for us to focus on developing more mutually beneficial relationships with the other living beings on this planet. The living world isn’t just some victim of industrial society, the trees, the algae, the fungus and a myriad of other living beings could be our saviors if we reach out and work with them.<br /><br /><br /><br />And as just kind of a side note, I am working with an artist in Portland on a graphic novel that tells a story about responding to our current ecological crisis in such a way. Hopefully we will be finished in the spring of next year<br />jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07865068658069680309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-56342807255070700532019-02-27T10:49:45.381-08:002019-02-27T10:49:45.381-08:00I said I would ignore the angry sillyperson till M...I said I would ignore the angry sillyperson till March 1, but I did skim past his latest and saw that he's still fuming with undeserved, hallucinatory rage. I considered asking you all not to feed him... then shrugged. Like it matters that we have another locumranch? Albeit one who goes on and on and on with weird syntax?<br /><br />Let me know if you guys get tired of scrolling past. As promised, on March 1 I will actually read one of his postings. If it remains filled with whiney, made up resentment, I'll return to another month of scrolling past.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-27507213068791741592019-02-27T10:39:47.474-08:002019-02-27T10:39:47.474-08:00While I am a huge booster of ocean fertilization e...While I am a huge booster of ocean fertilization experiments, I think some things are exaggerated. There's no proof those experiments caused the massive salmon run... though it is a huge argument to try again. Iron sulfate is insufficient in some places, where other nutrients are lacking - which is why I used ocean-bottom stirrers in EARTH (1989). <br /><br />It should only be done in fast currents with good drainage, else you contribute to eutrophication choking that's happening in the Black, Med and caribbean seas. But yes, this is an area where I turn to the left wing reflexive purtitan yammerers and say "it's your turn to be nonsensical. Let's do the experiments."David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-12774759469870568862019-02-27T10:35:19.719-08:002019-02-27T10:35:19.719-08:00Increases in vegetation - both reforestation and c...Increases in vegetation - both reforestation and crops - in China and India have been making a difference. It does not offset the damage from loss of natural vegetation in tropical regions, such as Brazil and Indonesia, where there's accompanying huge loss of species and biodiversity. But it does give us another weapon against denialist cultists, who writhe and change their incantations from "Humans can't affect the atmosphere," all the way to "Nothing can be done, so give up!" <br /><br />Many trends combine, China's huge efforts are aimed at fighting the deserts that have been spreading because of climate change. Movement of millions into cities has given some flexibility to plant more, but nothing like will happen when we shift to meat substitutes and free up vast areas being wrecked by herds. (Try a Beyond Burger!) We need to green the oceans. <br /><br />Why, oh why do none of the liberal pols never run through a long list of past cult-fetish denialisms of the right? Tobacco is good for you! Cars don't cause smog! Negroes can't read! It's GOOD that rivers are catching fire! Wage war on demon marijuana, sending a guy with one joint to prison for ten years! Jail homos! Women can't think for half of any month. Do you doubt I could go on?<br /><br />Remind your cultist friend that if they hate today's refugees clamoring at our borders, imagine a hundred times that many, fleeing climate chaos. We'll need to house a share of them. And the homes of the denialists who helped bring this mess upon us sound like a perfect place to start.<br /><br />https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/nasa-says-earth-is-greener-than-ever-thanks-to-china-and-india/?fbclid=IwAR37X8IveRAt-6s0BrxHN4PXtPD-dnEXNlHkX1BZJppq0NOvs16J1Zk9QmUDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-23974045649123993382019-02-27T10:29:00.382-08:002019-02-27T10:29:00.382-08:00Jim, nature would still be there, just largely unm...Jim, nature would still be there, just largely unmolested by us.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-50472512262548481802019-02-27T10:06:07.286-08:002019-02-27T10:06:07.286-08:00Larry,
Ok that makes sense to me now.
Tim asked
...Larry,<br />Ok that makes sense to me now.<br /><br />Tim asked <br />"what's wrong with a World where everything else can live with very little disturbance from us?"<br /><br />I just don't think that kind of world is possible with out real totalitarian control over the entire human race. There are just too many benefits from interacting with the rest of the natural world.<br /><br />And the idea of nuclear powered favelas is just so incredibly dystopian, in my mind would lead us into ecological, biological and cultural dead end. <br /><br />jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07865068658069680309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-57273203695457407522019-02-27T09:26:16.147-08:002019-02-27T09:26:16.147-08:00Which some varieties of "God-botherers" ... Which some varieties of "God-botherers" see as a plus, "Reasoning" that if they trash the World, it's creator will take them to Heaven. Thankfully, there's a lot of believers that are decent Human beings.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-31574934695357190192019-02-27T09:19:37.110-08:002019-02-27T09:19:37.110-08:00Tim H:
What I want is a World that can be sustain...Tim H:<br /><i><br />What I want is a World that can be sustainable without a die-off of Humans. That may look like nuclear powered favelas, but what's wrong with a World where everything else can live with very little disturbance from us?<br /></i><br /><br />I think the comment which prompted your response was more concerned with a world in which humans attempt to live by disturbing everything else to oblivion.Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62746918907037740292019-02-27T09:17:57.317-08:002019-02-27T09:17:57.317-08:00jim:
Nah, that was just a good natured jab at the...jim:<br /><i><br />Nah, that was just a good natured jab at the atheists here.<br /></i><br /><br />I'd hate to see what you call "grievous assault with intent."<br />Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-65088031509723475932019-02-27T09:14:37.835-08:002019-02-27T09:14:37.835-08:00jim:
I really don’t understand your comment Larry...jim:<br /><i><br />I really don’t understand your comment Larry.<br /><br />Are you having a pornobot freak out over the word parasite to describe modern man’s relationship with the rest of the living world?<br /></i><br /><br />No, I was suspecting that <b>he</b> would have a freakout over your use of the p-word.<br /><br />My "Now, you've done it" was a direct quote from the sealion comic, intended to convey expectation that the sealion would appear.<br /><br />Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-65324595737951295152019-02-27T08:36:33.209-08:002019-02-27T08:36:33.209-08:00What I want is a World that can be sustainable wit... What I want is a World that can be sustainable without a die-off of Humans. That may look like nuclear powered favelas, but what's wrong with a World where everything else can live with very little disturbance from us?Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-86210944704254545162019-02-27T08:36:22.114-08:002019-02-27T08:36:22.114-08:00My mistake. I'm beginning to think that emotic...My mistake. I'm beginning to think that emoticons might be useful after all.Darrell Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14054311762477388637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-63950523315591207342019-02-27T08:27:05.432-08:002019-02-27T08:27:05.432-08:00Darrell
Nah, that was just a good natured jab at ...Darrell <br />Nah, that was just a good natured jab at the atheists here.jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07865068658069680309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-40149667252293556342019-02-27T08:18:11.149-08:002019-02-27T08:18:11.149-08:00@raito
Rote doctrine, frameworks, black box librar...@raito<br />Rote doctrine, frameworks, black box libraries, and facile cut & paste coding are in fashion in schools, industry, and government. Compiler manuals often have pics of da Vinci and Aristotle. They should have had Bozo the Clown on the cover. I won't rail away like an old fogey here, these good folks have bigger fish to fry.<br /><br />Richard Feynman often advocated for researching and reasoning from <b>first principles</b>. Isaac Asimov covered the same ground using the Dandified idiot Lord Dorwin. Even if not finished, such work as yours back then moves you (and us) forward.<br /><br />The scientific spirit is of more value than its products<br />- Thomas Huxley<br />Mike Willhttp://scidata.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-75853621025614673212019-02-27T07:59:15.793-08:002019-02-27T07:59:15.793-08:00jim said...
It is like atheist’s dream of heaven,...jim said...<br /><br /><i>It is like atheist’s dream of heaven, remaking the world to match its view that the world is a cold, dead, meaningless place.</i><br /><br />Ahh, jim . . ., you're showing your ass again.Darrell Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14054311762477388637noreply@blogger.com