tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post7595453057649159656..comments2024-03-29T00:39:31.629-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Transparency and FreedomDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-59514353876142550602018-10-30T01:55:25.019-07:002018-10-30T01:55:25.019-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.siskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07076079736141144027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-36414105781541508082015-08-18T09:30:49.772-07:002015-08-18T09:30:49.772-07:00As the author of the "Eye in the Skynet"...As the author of the "Eye in the Skynet" article quoted here, I would like to add that I do have a proposed solution, but unfortunately I didn't really have the space in the article to explain it.<br /><br />My proposal involves moving what is currently effectively a black market for personal data into an open, transparent market, so that data brokers can be held accountable while also fostering further research into sociological data analytics by democratic societies so that we can keep up with this refined tool of warfare.<br /><br />I intend to explain this in further depth in later articles.Gregory Maushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03877958964888162352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-29345535435968065112015-08-14T17:01:30.254-07:002015-08-14T17:01:30.254-07:00Yes, a small shiite Arab, oil-rich state that seve...Yes, a small shiite Arab, oil-rich state that severed itself from Iraq in 1991 would have been tempted by the "shiite" part to align with Iran... but don't forget the "arab" part! <br /><br />It was OUR actions, betraying them to Saddam, that made them emphasize the former. If they had viewed us as rescuers and loved us for it, they might have let us talk them into emphasizing the latter. In any event, if there is ANY justified imposition of imperial will it is liberating a murdered and oppressed people from a vicious tyrant that they uniformly hate. <br /><br />onward<br /><br />onwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-16159870871634080522015-08-14T16:42:50.315-07:002015-08-14T16:42:50.315-07:00Alfred Differ:
My ‘imperial’ perspective comes fr...Alfred Differ:<br /><i><br />My ‘imperial’ perspective comes from the fact that I hate enslavers. I will happily carve them into pieces and feed them to the dogs...<br /></i><br /><br />My attitude is similar and tangential. I hate bullies. And I will gladly restrict the freedom of bullies in order to insure freedom from bullying for the rest of us. Does that make me a hypocrite? If so, I can live with it.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-71434518147255766582015-08-14T16:32:57.648-07:002015-08-14T16:32:57.648-07:00@locumranch: ISIL does no such thing. Whoever is r...@locumranch: ISIL does no such thing. Whoever is running the show places safety FOR THEMSELVES before self-actualization. Their propaganda is designed to say otherwise FOR ANOTHER who fights for them. Raise a man’s indignation/anger high enough and he will set aside his personal safety to defend family. This can be used by a savvy Prince and has been since before we were human I suspect.<br /><br />Where I depart from Maslow (and Rand for that matter) is in my belief that individual people are not the atoms we think they are. Physiological needs (lowest level) apply to the atomic unit. One young bachelor out and about looks after his own. Marry him off and give him children and he might blur his personal and family needs. I don’t think multiple levels in the hierarchy are needed if we recognize he is no longer the atom to which these apply. It’s even more apparent with women and their children and how they are inclined to shed their husbands if the pressure is high enough. A fusion occurs changing the nature of the atoms. What constitutes the atom varies from culture to culture, but the hierarchy us universal enough with this abstraction to be applied to all.<br /><br />With respect to Libya, you might take note of how little we got involved. That was a French and Italian thing and they both have delivered an impressively embarrassing performance. While it is a horrible thing to watch, there isn’t much for us to do that would make any sense for our Pax. Libya is a multi-nation state as are many others in the Middle East, so this has been a long time coming. The borders have only been as stable as they were because of our Cold War desire to fix them in place. The Cold War ended and that desire has eroded.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-85840563279920299262015-08-14T16:14:32.044-07:002015-08-14T16:14:32.044-07:00I’m not convinced the Shiite Arab state that would...I’m not convinced the Shiite Arab state that would have arisen after ’91 would have been independent of Iran. There are two historic centers of empire in the region. There are the old Ottoman and Persian cores. The interests of the peoples between them are generally subverted or divided. The Kurds, for example, get along with each other best when there is an external enemy; otherwise they are divided by partial loyalties to these old cores. Loyalty webs are complex in tribal nations and especially old ones. While Iran wasn’t in a position to step in so quickly back then as now, there was really no way the other Arab nations could have stopped them from using old loyalties. In this light, Bush Sr’s betrayal makes Machiavellian sense. Kuwait would be free and the status quo restored. No borders would collapse, though a lot of people had to die to accomplish this.<br /><br />Obviously, the betrayal was highly immoral, but it wasn’t illogical. Consider the consequences of an error regarding your belief that the Iraqi state would have been independent. I think Bush Sr considered that possibility or was sold on it and historically it makes sense. Those river valleys rarely belong to people who are strong enough to be politically independent of the empires near them. Iraq as an independent state is an historical aberration.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-79513724881357002472015-08-14T15:55:47.932-07:002015-08-14T15:55:47.932-07:00I don't know why you're so confused, locum...I don't know why you're so confused, locumranch; your whole shtick seems based on snarking that any values are opinions which have no weight.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-72673011512789960532015-08-14T15:54:26.191-07:002015-08-14T15:54:26.191-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-65590246334025051542015-08-14T13:55:52.263-07:002015-08-14T13:55:52.263-07:00Just as Progressive Blue blends with Conservative ...<br />Just as Progressive Blue blends with Conservative Red to produce the Imperial Purple of Pax Americana, I believe that mirror locum is just as confused by your statements as you are, from Jumper's 'I'm rubber & you're glue, my solipsism bounces off me & sticks to you' to Alfred's observation that ISIL places self-actualisation (plus tribal belonging) right after 'physiological needs' but BEFORE 'safety' in repudiation of Maslow's hierarchy.<br /><br />That, and the fact that any nation (including Iraq) cannot be 'saved' through even the most 'enlightened' outside military intervention, just as similar US attempts to 'destroy a village to save it' were so eminently unsuccessful in locales like Libya & Vietnam, mostly because 'saving' and conquest are non-homologous concepts.<br /><br />This Modern White's Man Burden, this 'enlightened' desire to Help Others Without Their Cooperation or Consent, is entirely misplaced, a violation of the Trekkie Prime Directive AND most reflective of the Evil Captain Kirk from the Mirror Universe (which is why, IMHO, why mirror-locum was so surprised & disgusted to find such antisocial views expressed here).<br /><br /><br />Bestlocumranchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-27698119273650819562015-08-14T12:57:52.843-07:002015-08-14T12:57:52.843-07:00I was perfectly willing to support pax imperial in...I was perfectly willing to support pax imperial intervention to remove Saddam's vicious insanity. Especially since in 1991 the Saudis and Kuwaitis were so-scared that they PAID the costs of their own rescue. A win-win-win... except for those poor Iraqi draftees.<br /><br />Where I became ballistic was over Bush Sr.'s betrayal of Gen Schwarzkopff and the Iraqi Shiite southern Arabs whom he had urged to "rise up" in our name. Possibly a million of them died as a result of his betrayal and their subsequent hatred of us - to this day - was well-earned by the Cheney-Rumsfeld-Bush-Saudi cabal, on our behalf. An oil rich shiite arab state might have been a problem for the Saudis (the reason they ordered Bush Sr to betray them) but it would have loved us! And not Iran. And the middle east would be different today.<br /><br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-79456764879903285372015-08-14T12:52:02.811-07:002015-08-14T12:52:02.811-07:00@mirror locum: I honestly don’t see how you could ...@mirror locum: I honestly don’t see how you could conclude that I think Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs doesn’t apply to non-western cultures. It does just as much for them as us. It is a human thing being described. There really aren’t all that many differences between us at the lower levels while the higher levels can be interpreted and adapted. As an atheist, my ‘spiritual’ needs (higher up the diagram) aren’t going to map to the same social institutions as my neighbor theists, but the abstraction behind the map still applies.<br /><br />What the ISIL folks are doing is lying much as Saddam and his people did and they do it for power. “Freedom is Tyranny and Tyranny is Freedom” is intentional doublespeak. Honest people can have differences about what constitutes Freedom up until they point guns at each other. No reasonable outsider will accept their definitions at that point.<br /><br />My ‘imperial’ perspective comes from the fact that I hate enslavers. I will happily carve them into pieces and feed them to the dogs. My attitude isn’t really imperial, though. It’s just hostile toward their propaganda and survival expectations. Humanity has suffered through enough millennia already. Our enlightenment civilization is the first to make slavery uneconomical and I want it to stay that way.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-79746754592606338552015-08-14T10:43:01.418-07:002015-08-14T10:43:01.418-07:00I'm thinking the only thing to be done in Iraq...I'm thinking the only thing to be done in Iraq that made any sense was to step in surgically and kill the dynasty. The consequences were sure to multiply, but so are the consequences of tolerating insane princes.<br /><br />The only non-abandonment trick I think could work would be to fold them into the markets of the world. Pushing for more than that (nation building) is the fools game especially in that ancient land. 8)Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-64944836890461496262015-08-14T10:16:42.369-07:002015-08-14T10:16:42.369-07:00I gave up reading locum's rants years back. Di...I gave up reading locum's rants <i>years</i> back. Did my blood pressure a world of good.<br /><br />Now I just skim until the name of a <i>sane</i> person pops up. If Treebeard immediately follows locum, well, that's just that much more skimming. Considering other viewpoints doesn't mean I have to listen to the guy standing on the corner screaming at the clouds, after all...Jonathan S.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-89562584413437052972015-08-14T07:03:17.745-07:002015-08-14T07:03:17.745-07:00It's a mirror, all right: that solipsism was s...It's a mirror, all right: that solipsism was specifically a reflection of you, locumranch.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-60520155798690724852015-08-13T22:45:06.480-07:002015-08-13T22:45:06.480-07:00Ahhhhhhh. He's back. Back to zero curiosity-ev...Ahhhhhhh. He's back. Back to zero curiosity-even, about what this "color" thing is... or that other blindness. Positive sum games.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-92150540162750249442015-08-13T20:31:58.230-07:002015-08-13T20:31:58.230-07:00More proof that we have entered a mirror-universe:...<br /><br />More proof that we have entered a mirror-universe: <br /><br />Mirror Jumper lapses into solipsism about how "it's better to consider values other than my own (even when) that belief is just my own biased value of what better is"; Mirror Brin endorses that same solipsism despite Actual Brin's perennial rejection of any non-blue & non-inclusive value system; Mirror Alfred simultaneously condemns and condones (what Treebeard terms) the West's 'neoliberal crack dealer approach to conquest' by admitting (more or less) that Maslow's Hierarchy of Western Needs does not necessarily apply to non-western cultures like ISIL; and, by adopting an imperial perspective, the once-caring blue agenda has purpled into uncaring shades of authoritarian red.<br /><br />As an enlightened bullet is just as deadly as a thuggish one, I wonder if the recently 'pacified' notice any difference between the enlightened use of (surgical; precise; professional) force and the more thuggish application thereof employed by 'yee haw' yelling playground bullies?<br /><br />What a long, strange trip it's been.<br /><br /><br />Bestmirror locumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-33992408042253704182015-08-13T20:02:21.629-07:002015-08-13T20:02:21.629-07:00There is a difference between imperial "pax&q...There is a difference between imperial "pax" use of force with a combination of surgical precision and professionalism... vs doing it like thuggish playground bullies yelling yee haw and pretending you are George Freaking Patton.<br /><br />http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2012/10/how-democrats-and-republicans-wage-war.html<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-43509597488302797332015-08-13T19:53:05.467-07:002015-08-13T19:53:05.467-07:00I wonder what techniques can be used to 'admon...I wonder what techniques can be used to 'admonish' HFTs?<br />Such lightning reaction times usually have a downside ('ringing')<br />Maybe signalling the intention to buy a dud stock, and *immediately* cancelling?Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-69336718633426615902015-08-13T19:34:32.952-07:002015-08-13T19:34:32.952-07:00The number of soldiers in Iraq had little to do wi...The number of soldiers in Iraq had little to do with failure there, I argue, though a Gulf War veteran just schooled me on the difference in numbers between the two: W used less at any given time. Still, I fault the lack of imperial bureaucrats we supplied. The whole thing seemed like a fools game, with abandonment as some sort of grand strategy.<br />Which is not to say I am in favor of imperialism. I'm not in favor of abandoning all sanity, in thinking you can invade a country, destroy it utterly, walk away, and then expect no resulting problems. In other words, Bush refused to follow through, and Obama gets blamed for his failure to actually take over and build the empire.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-80636765502414712282015-08-13T18:50:33.343-07:002015-08-13T18:50:33.343-07:00@treebeard: “It’s the neoliberal “crack dealer” ap...@treebeard: “It’s the neoliberal “crack dealer” approach to conquest...”<br /><br />Yah. Essentially. It’s a Hearts-and-Minds program that relies upon Maslow’s hierarchy of needs being essentially universal. If you aren’t hungry or physically threatened, you might expand your horizon of inclusion a bit and be friendly toward those who helped make it happen. Where it doesn’t work as conquest, though, is the fact that the horizon expander is not required to swallow the whole package. They can adapt it. History is full of examples of ‘conquered’ people doing this even with guns pointed at their heads. Adaptation at the fringe is common because the oppressor must spend to force rigid adoption. At some point, the extra costs for enforcing the fringe demands aren’t worth it.<br /><br />I think you are flexing far too much by giving any credit to the ISIL vultures for an alternative view of ‘tyranny’ and ‘freedom.’ What they are engaged in is pure propaganda where they muddy our message enough to preserve their troop morale and attract a few more. Saddam Hussein did something similar before the first war in Iraq. Do you remember the pre-land invasion news video of him talking to children? Nice, right? Pfft. Thinly veiled threat is what it was... delivered as propaganda. His perspective was that of a war lord who had been useful during the Cold War. He believed too much in the illusion and it wound up costing him his nation and his dynasty. <br /><br />You don’t have to swallow the US perspective on things (as if there was only one of those) to recognize the usefulness of Machiavelli’s perspective.<br /><br />You missed a layer between the hearts-and-minds campaign and the drones and tomahawks. There is an intermediate layer where we balance competing forces in an area so we don’t have to send our own troops. The reason the war in Iraq was really stupid is there was no way the US was ever going to be willing to commit the millions of soldiers it would have taken to occupy the country. How many soldiers do you need to send to occupy a nation of about 33 million people when they aren’t willing to sit down and shut up just ‘cause we say so? It’s a trick question, of course. The answer is zero because the US usually isn’t that dumb. We get others who live closer to do the job first by motivating them.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62059037470226557252015-08-13T17:32:56.008-07:002015-08-13T17:32:56.008-07:00The fact that you don't mind, Jumper, reflects...The fact that you don't mind, Jumper, reflects that same value system, which smiles at contingency and ambiguity and looks upon them as opportunities, not threats or insults.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1726836971662796042015-08-13T16:59:52.899-07:002015-08-13T16:59:52.899-07:00I see a paradox looming just ahead. Or infinite re...I see a paradox looming just ahead. Or infinite regress. If it's "better" to consider values other than my own, that belief is just my own biased value of what "better" is.<br />I should add this sort of sophistry doesn't bother me as the questions have repelled efforts from better minds than mine for a long time.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1119726694742082552015-08-13T16:24:39.348-07:002015-08-13T16:24:39.348-07:00Eep! What happened, did I switch universe tracks?...Eep! What happened, did I switch universe tracks? locum wasn't even at all dizzy, this time, but cogent -- if a bit cynical. Whaaaaaa?<br /><br />OTOH Alex T's "I think we are better not trying to make too many judgements of what constitutes "better" culture, particularly as this usually devolves into a sort of jingoism."<br /><br />Again, whaaa? The exact TOPIC was reflexively making criticisms of the west's inadequate multi-polarity... based on wholly western assumptions the wide perspective and multipolarity is good. The topic is stepping back and looking at your own reflexes. That was the TOPIC, son.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-26453225383032859522015-08-13T15:30:37.774-07:002015-08-13T15:30:37.774-07:00The Fallacy Fallacy
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/f...The Fallacy Fallacy<br /><br />http://www.fallacyfiles.org/fallfall.htmlPaul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-89737557283998251962015-08-13T15:30:03.844-07:002015-08-13T15:30:03.844-07:00Alex, I wasn't assuming anything here, just go...Alex, I wasn't assuming anything here, just going with the two choices Treebeard gave us. I would certainly hope there are more than two choices here. It's a big world full of ideas...Paul SBnoreply@blogger.com