tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post7352197625866619467..comments2024-03-29T00:39:31.629-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Future Perspectives… and does the ACLU (at last) understand sousveillance?David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-31655235873459006692014-04-25T17:50:37.617-07:002014-04-25T17:50:37.617-07:00onwardonwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-52497821842561809482014-04-25T16:36:43.990-07:002014-04-25T16:36:43.990-07:00I second the mention of "Soylent Green"....I second the mention of "Soylent Green". I was a little too young to appreciate it in 1973, but every time I see it again, it seems more relevant to today's headlines. The pivotal scene with the movie/classical music in the background still brings me to tears. As an aside, the movie predicted global warming (which the book did <b>not</b> do, BTW) back in 1973.<br /><br />I also second Cr Brin's choice of "Star Trek: Wrath of Khan". Unlike the first ST film, this one didn't forget to be an <b>episode</b> of Star Trek as well as a movie, giving us the best of both worlds.<br /><br />I was as big a fan of "Star Wars" (the original only) in '77, but I can't bring myself to call it science fiction.<br /><br />I'll try to make it back later with some others that haven't yet been mentioned.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-49542521983403440672014-04-25T15:38:22.894-07:002014-04-25T15:38:22.894-07:00Jonathan, right on top to bottom. That captain ab...Jonathan, right on top to bottom. That captain abandon's ET when threatened with… flashlights and cameras. Not a gun in sight.<br /><br />Ah… Locum is back! Utterly conflating and misinterpreting with dazzling abandon.<br /><br />Actually, Alex, you are right in your response, but in fact I diverge a bit. Suspicion of Authority SoA is our trained reflex and I elsewhere discuss how important it is at keeping us free… though its side effects are now being used by cynical manipulators to send left and right into a non-productive mutual fury…<br /><br />but it is not Soa per se that is at issue. Rather the targeting of error modes. Soa can PROPEL an attack on a failure mode, but it is the failure itself that fiction usefully pillories.<br /><br />Hence: "this KIND of mistake is one that bureaucracies often make and I will make such a criminal misbehavior the focus of my story" is wholly legitimate! And hence when the protagonists take on a corrupt institution… yay for that!<br /><br />Locum is unable to grasp the difference between skewering specific failure modes -- which is the work of "social T Cell" critics and the reason we are alive today… versus the idiot plot of lazily declaring ALL civilization hopeless ALL the time and all our neighbors sheep and all institutions futile and all civil servants useless and all companies automatically evil.<br /><br />Alas. Parsing that difference will be key to getting out of the dismal mess that storytelling is in.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1414558847733518222014-04-25T11:59:06.377-07:002014-04-25T11:59:06.377-07:00@locum
There is a difference between rebelling aga...@locum<br />There is a difference between rebelling against authority and the civilization being worthless. <br /><br />Where in 2001, or Bladerunner is civilization portrayed as worthless? The rebelling of HAL against the crew that will kill him, or the replicants against the humans that enslave them (and Deckard against his bosses) are quite rational. The civilizations that support the mission to Saturn/Jupiter or the creation of replicants to aid in colonizing the galaxy seem a lot better than worthless to me, and are acting quite competently.<br /><br />One can rebel against authority without assuming that the authority is purely bad with no redeeming features, or incompetent and should be replaced at the earliest opportunity.<br /><br />Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-34419908568203823082014-04-25T11:06:38.303-07:002014-04-25T11:06:38.303-07:00Obviously, the villain of ET was the alien starshi...Obviously, the villain of ET was the alien starship captain, who upon the <i>approach</i> of human investigators immediately abandoned a crewmate to his own devices, and declined to return until said crewate managed to build a beacon out of available materials. (And yet upon receiving the signal, said captain had no problem making a pretty doggone public return to the world in question, not to mention having abandoned the crewmate in a situation that almost guaranteed local authorities capturing him, so it's not because he couldn't let himself be seen by the natives...)Jonathan S.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-41404540780913532852014-04-25T10:44:34.244-07:002014-04-25T10:44:34.244-07:00What David dismisses as the 'idiot plot', ...What David dismisses as the 'idiot plot', the idea that 'civilization must always be portrayed as worthless', is perhaps the most important theme in both western literature & science fiction.<br /><br />His list of fave films confirms this, each replete with a quirky and/or partially civilized protagonist who rebels against established authority in order to defend it:<br /><br />Star Trek 2; 2001; Conan; Bladerunner; Fifth Element; Forbidden Planet; Gattaca; Rollerball; Men in Black; Galaxy Quest; Logan's Run; Serenity; Dark City; Brazil; and so on.<br /><br />Now, imagine an entirely civilized protagonist who always defers to greater authority, who subsumes himself, who 'takes a knee' when ordered, and we are left with much more unpleasant tales that are reminiscent of 'The Pianist'.<br /><br /><br />Bestlocumranchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-74897620789314071102014-04-25T09:18:34.924-07:002014-04-25T09:18:34.924-07:00I'll second "Safety Not Guaranteed,"...I'll second "Safety Not Guaranteed," though I'd put it in the Serious category. <br /><br />"Moon" is one of my all time favorite movies.<br /><br />For Fun, don't forget "Paul." Crude humor, but a great view of fandom and UFO culture.<br /><br />And I have a soft spot for "Outland" as well. "Silent Runnings" is dated and ham-handed, but Bruce Dern owns it.matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17757867868731829206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-13036186135542012152014-04-25T08:21:26.165-07:002014-04-25T08:21:26.165-07:00Tom Crawl
I did not write that essay. John Michael...Tom Crawl<br />I did not write that essay. John Michael Greer wrote it. (I like the Lord of the Rings, but I am not a LOR nerd) <br />I too liked the essay and consider it a call to arms or a needed kick in the pants.<br /><br />David,<br />How about Sci Fi movies that need to be made? I once read this series of books about humans and language using dolphins and chimps in space. It was really cool, set in a universe with many powerful aliens. The plucky humans and their allies need to navigate between not just stars but between far more powerful alien alliances all while uncovering an ancient secret. <br /><br />Those books could make totally awesome movies (or even a series on HBO or Netflicks).jimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-53255847888303748822014-04-25T08:16:57.628-07:002014-04-25T08:16:57.628-07:00Robocop is on my list somewhere.
Oh, and thanks, ...Robocop is on my list somewhere.<br /><br />Oh, and thanks, Jim, for the Archdruid pointer.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62397539698604101922014-04-24T19:39:52.907-07:002014-04-24T19:39:52.907-07:00Thanks all! Some good suggestions.
Wish Netflix ...Thanks all! Some good suggestions.<br /><br /> Wish Netflix offered "When Worlds Collide." <br /><br />Surrogates? Ouch! I can't even be mad because it shows you've read my stuff enough to know where to stick the knife! ;-)<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-82015329572671273402014-04-24T19:09:54.168-07:002014-04-24T19:09:54.168-07:00Lot's of great movies!
Here's one that I&...Lot's of great movies!<br /><br />Here's one that I've always loved... <br /><br />I know... essentially a thoughtless, "Hollywoodized" kid's version of the classic book. <br /><br />But that's when I saw it... at a Saturday matinee as a kid:<br /><br />"Journey to the Center of the Earth" with James Mason and Pat Boone<br /> <br />(we can't be eggheads all the time)Tom Crowlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04444476865484424912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-48527234950674144482014-04-24T19:05:15.492-07:002014-04-24T19:05:15.492-07:00O ye prophets of sousveillance, how could you leav...O ye prophets of sousveillance, how could you leave out <i>The Truman Show</i>? And I have a soft spot for <i>Strange Days</i>.<br /><br />TheMadLibrarianTheMadLibrariannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-88185385549644429352014-04-24T18:54:48.888-07:002014-04-24T18:54:48.888-07:00Don't forget Willow, an enjoyable there and ba...Don't forget Willow, an enjoyable there and back again story. And if Peter Jackson releases novelizations based on his LOTR scripts, I'll think unpleasant thoughts...Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-82560731801705316272014-04-24T18:52:51.656-07:002014-04-24T18:52:51.656-07:00The Matrix? Shame they never made a sequel...
Dum...The Matrix? Shame they never made a sequel...<br /><br />Dumb but fun, Cloverfield. <br /><br />Excellent, Children of Men. <br /><br />I'm glad somebody recognizes the genius of Conan. <br /><br />Soylent Green, great. Omega Man, not so great, but tries. <br /><br />Various Ape Planet movies, mixed bag. <br /><br />What about Surrogates? Hahahah. Sorry about that.<br /><br />John Moralesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-5483181393847066162014-04-24T18:50:38.745-07:002014-04-24T18:50:38.745-07:00"Recent"
Good, thoughtful SF Movies:
..."Recent"<br /><br />Good, thoughtful SF Movies: <br />Splice<br />Source Code (intelligent and fun?)<br />Robot and Frank<br />Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind<br />Ghost in the Shell (anime)<br /><br /><br />Fun:<br />Upside Down<br />Safety Not Guaranteed<br />The World's End<br />Watchmen (The book is better, but the movie is extremely entertaining)<br /><br />"Classic"<br /><br />Good, thoughtful:<br />Seconds<br />Charly<br />The Andromeda Strain (The tv remake isn't bad too, although it made some unnecessary commercial changes)<br /><br /><br />Fun:<br />Planet of the Apes (orig)<br />Invasion of the Body Snatchers (orig)<br />Quatermass II (Actually I like all the early Quatermass movies, but this is my favorite. England seemed almost empty then).<br />The Illustrated Man <br /><br />There is always an issue of the impact of taste. I love old movies, even when they are just silly. I love the original "The Thing", while I can barely watch Carpenter's remake, and still less the prequel. Other faves include "When Worlds Collide", "Destination Moon" and "This Island Earth". I would certainly put "Gravity" in the recent, fun category, as I would "Space Cowboys". "Gravity" and "Apollo 13" are probably the most "realistic" depictions of space and spacecraft. I just wish the future had looked like "2001: A Space Odyssey".<br /><br /><br />Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-34558415230236391972014-04-24T18:14:51.428-07:002014-04-24T18:14:51.428-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-14061404418044354932014-04-24T18:14:50.702-07:002014-04-24T18:14:50.702-07:00Thanks for reminding me of Limitless and Moon! I ...Thanks for reminding me of Limitless and Moon! I liked the other two, though less.<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-51881290620364639992014-04-24T17:31:39.258-07:002014-04-24T17:31:39.258-07:00Any of these forgotten, or just didn't make th...Any of these forgotten, or just didn't make the grade?<br /><br />Europa Report<br />Moon<br />Limitless<br />The Quiet EarthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-29377319108074665422014-04-24T16:27:19.562-07:002014-04-24T16:27:19.562-07:003. The whole package: Rarest of all -- films that ...<br />3. The whole package: Rarest of all -- films that take us beyond our familiar horizons on adventures that satisfy every age you contain within yourself, from awestruck kid to sober grownup to mystic dreamer.<br /><br />Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan delivers from beginning to end. Not only a terrific motion picture but a love ode to the brash, Faustian, unbridled adolescent hopefulness that only Star Trek ever gave us, amid today's grotesque tsunami of grouchy dystopias. <br /><br />Bladerunner. Of course. Nothing need be said<br /><br />Runners-up: There are so many films that came close, or just missed. Dozens that were enjoyable and I'd have been proud to be associated with. Only nit-picking kept them off the top tiers.<br /><br />Contact was well worthwhile and inspiring, if a bit preachy in spots. <br /><br /> 2001: a Space Odyssey was epochal in its time -- it helped make me who I am, and remains a mind stretcher -- though it suffers a bit under close examination. So don't.<br /><br />James Cameron's Aliens is the best film about motherhood ever created. And Terminator II was even better than the first one. <br /><br /> (Note: All through the 80s and 90s there was a "third movie curse" in which the third flick in a franchise betrayed everything good about the wondrous second film. It happened to Star Trek, Star Wars, Terminator and especially the Aliens series. But not Back to the Future, somehow.)<br /><br />And so let me roll off some of my favorites, each one funky and unique and different in its own way: Forbidden Planet, District 9, Alien Nation, Rollerball, Men in Black, Galaxy Quest, Logan's Run, Serenity... plus weirdnesses like Altered States, Dark City, Brazil, Solaris and eXistenZ… which show the breadth and wondrous opportunities for creativity that science fiction offers those who think bold.<br /><br />Special Mention: No single Steven Spielberg film made my top ten sci fi films. But almost all Steven Spielberg films make it into my top fifty, while Close Encounters and War of the Worlds and Minority Report skate much closer. He and Zemeckis are the most consistent and skilled story tellers of our age. <br /><br />Tragic misses: The Empire Strikes Back is a fine film in its own right, and it shows what a wonderful epic we might have had, if George Lucas had stuck to his strengths, as one of the greatest of all Hollywood producers, and simply hired great writers and directors for his film, the way he did in Empire… and the way he hired terrific artists for all the other Star Wars films. (Their one strong suit.) Alas, his choices became our tragedy.<br /><br />The Day the Earth Stood Still… could have explored the immorality of the other side. It's preachiness prevented adding another layer of potentially really interesting counter-preachiness.<br /><br />Total Recall… you're kidding me, right? You can be this creative -- in BOTH versions -- and still shy away from getting Phil Dick on us and getting us to actually fret that it's all actually an actual bummer recall-trip? Why? I mean, why not?<br /><br />E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial -- and the real villain is…………?<br /><br />* Followup links:<br /><br />About the "Idiot Plot" cliche that civilization must always be portrayed as worthless. http://www.davidbrin.com/idiotplot.html<br /><br />Other science fiction riffs by David Brin. http://www.scoop.it/t/speculations-on-science-fictionDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-70423003338655924882014-04-24T16:27:14.045-07:002014-04-24T16:27:14.045-07:002. Joyful slumming: At the opposite end are films ...2. Joyful slumming: At the opposite end are films that I could only watch by tuning my "dials" before entering the theater. Cranking IQ and science and even logic down to"popcorn" levels, without sacrificing my standards when it comes to deeper values, beauty, esthetics, ethics… all that stuff that must be left outside the theater, if I'm to enjoy most flicks. In other words, enjoying as-if-stoned a movie-movie that is simply way-successful at delivering fun. <br /><br />Conan the Barbarian (the original) is simply the most successful film ever at delivering what it promised, while never promising intellect. Every scene is filled with visual and musical beauty amid a tale that hearkens to the deeply non-western, non-modern part of you and me, going back to the Iliad and Gilgamesh. <br /><br />The Fifth Element is the single most joyful work of art I ever saw. Luc Bessant's sheer pleasure leaps upon your lap like a great big retriever and licks your face for ninety minutes. <br /><br /> Avatar… well, James Cameron would demand that we put Avatar in category number one. Sorry. Nice try. But yes it is beyond-brilliant in the popcorn category.<br /><br />In contrast, the Back to the Future trilogy comes that close to vaulting into category three. It's fantastic fun. bighearted, unabashedly logical and darn near perfect.<br /><br />Lord of the Rings… all right, Peter Jackson delivered a superb work of art and it was definitely not "just popcorn." I have great respect for Tolikien's complex world building craft and Jackson's fealty to the original material. Still, neither the books nor the flicks bear adult scrutiny. So turn down the "adult" dials. Be a kid and enjoy. I know I did!<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-3126719149606686962014-04-24T16:26:41.015-07:002014-04-24T16:26:41.015-07:00GUYS! Members of the Blogmunity. I am preparing ...GUYS! Members of the Blogmunity. I am preparing an essay of my favorite sci fi films. I'd like feedback and you are the best bunch. So I'm posting a draft here, under comments… for you to comment upon.<br /><br /><br />David Brin's favorite science fiction films. <br /><br />Science Fiction is multi-dimensional and no one criterion can ever be used to determine a best-of list. Hence, I must divide my favorites into categories. And yes, each choice would be worth many paragraphs of explanation, including the runners-up and tragic misfires. <br /><br />1. Films for grownups: I wish there were a lot more of these, but they are as rare as hen's teeth -- films in which the director and writer actually cared about the deep implications of their visual thought experiment -- their deliberate departure from reality. Works in which the creators paid close heed to logic (while delivering tasty action) and eschewed the lazy, "idiot plot"* assumption that civilization is worthless. Some institutions actually function! Adversaries have plausible motives and no red, glowing eyes! Protagonists aren't chosen-ones but merely above-average people with difficult challenges to overcome, in part by using their heads.<br /><br />Inception works harder than any film I ever saw. It can be overbearing, especially with the sound cranked up! But I have never seen a director strive to juggle as many edgy intricacies as Nolan does in this mostly-successful tour-de-force.<br /><br /> Gattaca and Primer are much simpler films that nevertheless aim to tease your mind into real thinking. Gattaca isn't as dystopian as some lazily take it to be and the protagonist is actually a selfish jerk… but a true hero nonetheless, whose triumph is largely one of character and mind. Primer is simply a delight of logic and an example of what can be done when very smart people have a filming budget of about eighty-five cents.<br /><br />James Cameron gets a couple of mentions here. But the one that was for grownups is The Abyss. <br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-47674381913347526972014-04-24T15:03:35.582-07:002014-04-24T15:03:35.582-07:00Hey Jim...
I LOVE your re-telling of the tale!
...Hey Jim... <br /><br />I LOVE your re-telling of the tale!<br /><br />I'm generally more a hard-sci fan but sometimes metaphor has more truth than any mathematical formula.Tom Crowlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04444476865484424912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-54493219450968018512014-04-24T13:39:50.041-07:002014-04-24T13:39:50.041-07:00
Hi David and everyone else,
I hesitate to do thi...<br />Hi David and everyone else,<br /><br />I hesitate to do this, because the last time I linked to the Archdruid’s blog it produced more heat than light (in my opinion). But today’s essay may inspire something else.<br /><br />Now the Archdriud has a much more pessimistic outlook on the future than David does. But his pessimism does not lead to despair but to an urgent need for action and the hope that if we act much can be saved and worst can be avoided. The central myth of our civilization is the Myth of the Hero. Will you join the fellowship?<br /><br />http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.de/2014/04/refusing-call-tale-rewritten.html<br /><br /><br />*note* some of the more conservative among us may have trouble with the first half of the essay and some of the more liberal among us may have some trouble looking in the mirror after reading the second half of the essay. <br />jimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-81184258410408727782014-04-24T11:23:18.208-07:002014-04-24T11:23:18.208-07:00I don't doubt they will get very small, but I&...I don't doubt they will get very small, but I'm doubtful I shall see dust sized ones in my lifetime. I get the singularity argument others make, but I think they are a little optimistic about the timing. <br /><br />Besides, all I really need can be found from a bit of game theory. If the risk of getting caught rises, the strategy used by a moderately well educated competitor must change. All I need to defend myself should be a credible threat upon which I can act (randomly) when the need arises. The random response lowers my costs and makes me partially unpredictable. That means the competitor will possibly spend more effort than me if they want to be unpleasant or adopt a more pleasant strategy.<br /><br />If there is going to be a limit to the cameras and microphones before the physical (quantum?) limits it will be when we are no longer motivated to improve them. Game theory might offer a way to do it, but I'm sure that won't happen until we have the mole-sized ones or David's flexible hair stalks. 8)Alfred Differnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-18592437844116769332014-04-24T07:40:23.820-07:002014-04-24T07:40:23.820-07:00@Alfred I want a little camera that can be embedd...@Alfred <i>I want a little camera that can be embedded in the skin like a pet chip. </i>.<br /><br />It won't stop there. Given the right optics, power supply, bandwidth and compute power, these devices could be as common as dust, infiltrating everywhere (c.f. Bob Shaw's <i>slow glass</i> in "Other Days, Other Eyes"). And it won't just be images, but sound and other sensors. Theoretically it would be the total end of privacy, everywhere. Violent crime, indeed most crime, would be very hard to perpetrate as any incident would be accessible and the trail to the perp easily followed. Trials would be relatively simple, and fast. White collar crime might still be hard to prosecute, especially if perps become adapt at hiding their intentions in plain sight. Access to the data is crucial. If it is just law enforcement and their allies, all sorts of mischief could be enacted. OTOH, public access would be the ultimate sousveillance, although power asymmetries might limit effectiveness. But it doesn't stop there. All that redundant law enforcement has to maintain itself - so there will be an emphasis on predicting crimes and so we could have the algorithmic alternative to pre-cogs for pre-crime determination. A citizenry that lives in fear of a random arrest because their actions are predicted to result in a crime.Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.com