tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post6997556494007214123..comments2024-03-29T00:39:31.629-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: "Solutions" to the Fermi Paradox - Contest Winners! (Part One)David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger81125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-70629086741002505212018-01-14T01:38:24.426-08:002018-01-14T01:38:24.426-08:00I think that there is a degree of hubris implicit ...I think that there is a degree of hubris implicit in the Fermi Paradox.<br /><br />Firstly is the question of whether we would be able to detect an alien civilisation. It seems unlikely both because of the distances concerned and also because of the assumptions made regarding how they would communicate. SETI, in essence, relies on an assumption that someone knows we are here (in the broad sense that they conclude someone is out there) and is actively trying to communicate with us. There is also the question of whether we would know if we were being observed - or even visited. This might be illustrated by taking the analogy of how we treat the artic.<br /><br />The arctic has no land mass, no minerals or other resource that is worth very much to us economically (except perhaps on the sea floor) and has little strategic value. The wildlife there is a curiosity and something that we might observe but don't interfere with directly.<br /><br />Any civilisation that is able to get to our planet hardly has need of the resource here (why lift metals, minerals or water out of a gravity well when there is a large amount circling around that is easier to collect from asteroids etc?). So we might be a curiosity but probably not one that visitors would want to interfere with (just as we don't with artic wildlife). They might be watching but it seems unlikely that we would easily detect their technology if they did not want us to. <br /><br />Not entirely clear that there is a paradox.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09191451364180003781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-26280465611079571582015-02-13T18:58:11.522-08:002015-02-13T18:58:11.522-08:00https://medium.com/@alfps/a-multi-solution-to-the-...https://medium.com/@alfps/a-multi-solution-to-the-fermi-paradox-9eec0eb8205f<br /><br />“The Fermi Paradox = where are all the others<br /><br />1. We’ve been looking for smoke signals. Duh.<br /> (Neutrinos, as an example, pass through just about anything in their way, including right through the whole Earth, while photons — electromagnetic radiation — are thwarted by even the most diffuse gas. Ignoring this difficulty, human scientists and engineers focus on use of electromagnetic radiation for interstellar communication, reasoning that aliens will naturally use the technology that works for us here on the surface of the Earth. I think it’s herd psychology, embracing the familiar and finding the unfamiliar abhorrent and unnatural, regardless of the technical problems and technical merits.)<br />2. We don’t recognize engineered structures when we see them: we just can’t believe the scale.<br />3. Any sufficiently information dense signal is indistinguishable from noise.<br />”Alf P. Steinbachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07587892946798135052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-48933284604516685152012-12-06T03:11:31.722-08:002012-12-06T03:11:31.722-08:00I love to wonder about this subject.
Currently, t...I love to wonder about this subject.<br /><br />Currently, there is a world-wide male fertilization issue. This brings into question the fecundity of our species, of any species, really, anywhere.<br /><br />I have heard that the average lifespan of a species is 120kyr. I think this a very short time in which to develop a technological civilization. And during that 120kyr period, if we totally exclude the Great Filter & the resources necessary for such a civilization, we have the forces of competition directing the species...<br /><br />In any case, an answer to the paradox must include these everyday forces.<br /><br />I think all these other ideas about zoos, time separation and aliens waiting for us to become moral are at best satire and at worst facile.<br /><br />But what about post or transhumanism? This to could, or would occur in an alien sentient species, too.<br /><br />And we don't see them either.<br /><br />Perhaps the 120kyr window for us, or for them is too short a time, much to steep a mountain to climb.<br /><br />There is only one possibility that I could agree with - machine intelligence supplanting biological. For x amount of reasons.<br /><br />What direction would they take?<br /><br />We don't see them either...<br /><br />The fact that biological ET's are not here does not concern me as much as the missing machine intelligences. They would not need life-bearing worlds, however...<br /><br />I read somewhere that a mind sophisticated enough would discern the clues for a synthetic reality, a simulated universe.<br /><br />What would give you courage & desire to explore, expand and grow technologically if such a state of affairs existed and you could detect it?<br /><br />After you minus out the Great Filter and its included issues of fecundity and competition, science-driven evolution and supplantation by the technology created, I think what remains is really all about sophisticated, powerful minds with their technology coming to terms with what researchers at the Max Plank considered.<br /><br />In effect, do you say, "What's the point?"<br /><br />Do you lose interested and shut down the shop?<br /><br />Is this why we don't see any indication of Type 3 and above civilizations in our Galaxy?<br /><br /><br />Respectfully,<br /><br />- Wondering about the UniverseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-32425120311682376092012-07-11T09:31:41.320-07:002012-07-11T09:31:41.320-07:00#4 They won't unscramble the signal until we p...<i>#4 They won't unscramble the signal until we put a deposit down. –Lone Hanks</i><br /><br />Am I the only one who thought of <a href="http://qntm.org/digital" rel="nofollow">"On Digital Extremities"</a> from <a href="http://qntm.org/structure" rel="nofollow"><i>Fine Structure</i></a>?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-20475455670540321302012-06-26T06:21:08.072-07:002012-06-26T06:21:08.072-07:00Here's a link to those who are unaware of the ...Here's a link to those who are unaware of the "Newest Post" link below these comments. ;)<br /><br /><a href="http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2012/06/solutions-to-fermi-paradox-our-contest.html" rel="nofollow">Part Two of the Fermi Paradox Solutions</a>. And yes, we're continuing the discussion at the same time, so do join us! <br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-80634583970876169072012-06-25T11:57:51.559-07:002012-06-25T11:57:51.559-07:00goodgoodorthodontisthttp://www.barnettorthodontics.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-74880382471969772992012-06-25T11:23:33.880-07:002012-06-25T11:23:33.880-07:00Please update this blog entry with a link to Part ...Please update this blog entry with a link to Part 2.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-60774195343813439372012-06-25T10:12:55.281-07:002012-06-25T10:12:55.281-07:00My hypothesis - we're looking in the wrong dim...My hypothesis - we're looking in the wrong dimension. If M-brane theories are borne out, it may be the case that there are a near-infinite set of universes (branes) stacked directly on top of each other. The primary means of communication/detection between these branes is gravity waves. <br /><br />Dark matter will turn out to be proximate matter in adjacent branes. Because adjacent branes interact primarily through gravity, adjacent branes will preferentially contain planets.<br /><br />Per the Fermi paradox, given a near-infinite number of planets, any intelligent species will find a large number of other intelligent species 'nearby' in brane-space.<br /><br />The fly in the ointment is that we do not currently have technology to communicate across or traverse brane-space. If, however, we posit that a specific type of technology allows ready communication and/or transit between branes, then once we build a communicator, there is some communicating civilization that will bootstrap the process.<br /><br />Cross-brane exploration and development may be more economical and practical than cross-space development. Cross-brane communication may be very brane-directional, without a lot of spatial bleed.<br /><br />So - we may be surrounded by vast numbers of intelligent societies, each very actively interacting with other societies - but all of them isolated from us in their own brane-dimensional stovepipe.<br /><br />We haven't broken into our local brane-dimensional stovepipe yet because we haven't developed appropriate gravity-wave detection technology, nor have we applied SETI principles to investigating signals from what gravity wave detectors we do have.utopia27https://www.blogger.com/profile/17847262245321348013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-58128290093554976702012-06-25T03:59:31.218-07:002012-06-25T03:59:31.218-07:00Most likely IMO: technological civilisations are v...Most likely IMO: technological civilisations are very rare in the universe, and interstellar or intergalactic travel is very hard.<br /><br />An obvious objection to the latter is that interstellar or even intergalactic travel by (self-replicating?) machine probes would not seem to be very hard, given enough time. Although even if sending out probes is easy, communicating back to base may not be, and without communication, sending the probes may seem pointless.<br /><br />I suspect that time is of the essence: it is rare for technological civilisations to arise, they are spread thinly through the Universe, and the Universe is (a) very big and (b) too young for any to have reached us yet.Simon in Londonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-16815961978113015272012-06-24T16:33:13.821-07:002012-06-24T16:33:13.821-07:00Some interesting news for David from Saudi Arabia:...Some interesting news for David from Saudi Arabia:<br /><br />http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/16/prince-salman-meet-the-next-saudi-king.htmlIan Gouldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07666385933765478081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-69722554373159353122012-06-24T07:32:39.856-07:002012-06-24T07:32:39.856-07:00Ah, the power of internet advertising. I finally s...Ah, the power of internet advertising. I finally succumbed (being unable to find e-copies of Existence in the public libraries and not seeing any print copies available) and purchased the hardcopy instead. Though Dr. Brin has Barnes and Noble's "buy one, second one half-off" deal, combined with Terry Pratchett's "Long Earth" to thank for that as well. And indirectly, J.K. Rowling and Pottermore seeing that their public library-positive e-book policy resulted in me revising my initial decision not to get the Potter books on the Nook. (It's easier to go the two miles to the local Barnes and Noble to download new books.) ;)<br /><br /><i>Existence</i> seems interesting so far, though I'm only around 60 or so pages into it. Though I must admit, some aspects of it are depressing; Dr. Brin, you are fixated on your thoughts of the Aristocracy, aren't you. ;) Though it's nice to see the thought that even they might be succumbing to conspiracy theories, believing they are controlled by an uber-elite when in fact there is no such body. (Man, looking at the hardcover, I've realized that it's going to be a huge softcover, the print is small as it is despite being of damn respectable size. I'll have to get it on the Nook when it comes out in paperback.)<br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-26839783165577054442012-06-24T06:31:03.962-07:002012-06-24T06:31:03.962-07:00Here is an interesting net contrarian. This relate...Here is an interesting net contrarian. This relates to some long-standing thoughts David works on.<br />http://neteffect.foreignpolicy.com/blog/<br /><br />which I found because I read this:<br />http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/06/24/153577/countering-optimism-about-the.html<br /><br />(49 meroods. I think the ones wearing them are following me, and likely in a cult of some sort.)Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-83167516627423285452012-06-23T19:23:39.846-07:002012-06-23T19:23:39.846-07:00As for the belief that traditional Chinese society...As for the belief that traditional Chinese society encouraged mindless conformity and blind obedience to authority:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bao_Zheng#Ancient_Literary_Traditions<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Men_Are_Brothers<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_to_the_West<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qu_Yuan<br /><br />Rebellion against unrighteous rulers is one of the most persistent themes in Chinese literature and theatre.<br /><br />The Emperor ruled by the Mandate of Heaven. <br /><br />If things went badly for the Empire it was a clear sign that the Mandate had been withdrawn and it was time for a new Emperor.Ian Gouldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04352147295160200128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-38933958236092607252012-06-23T17:43:01.702-07:002012-06-23T17:43:01.702-07:00k4ntico,
Sorry, I thought you were saying "Ci...k4ntico,<br />Sorry, I thought you were saying "Civilisations discover each other in the pattern of super-nova. Since we don't know what to look for, we can't "hear" them." (Merely a variation on "they don't talk to us".)<br /><br />Am I right, this time, that you mean every civilisation sees Monsters in the signature of exploding stars? And quite reasonably decides to stop drawing attention to themselves. Which solves the colonisation issue, because every civilisation is hiding under the bed, and the broadcast issue, because every civilisation is <i>quietly</i> hiding under the bed.<br /><br />(I've wondered aloud, here, before, how would people react if we definitively proved that a galaxy-scale effect was artificial. The result of a Kardashev III type civilisation. For example, when looking at <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Hoag's_object.jpg" rel="nofollow">Hoag's Object</a>, notice the second ring galaxy in the background. What if it wasn't in the background but was a sub-structure in Hoag's itself? Red because it's older, earlier. Ie, dating the star-formation in the various parts of Hoag's showed a) the majority of stars are formed in waves, b) the waves expanded from a single point, and c) the wave has reached Hoag's nearest galaxies, beginning their conversion, suggesting an expansion of about a tenth of the speed of light of something entirely artificial, able to steer star formation in entire galaxies.<br /><br />How would we react? No communication, no contact, no chance of contact for 3 billion years. No invasion, or cultural domination, or other direct influence on us. Just the awareness that there's Something Out There which paints galaxies. Would we withdraw, crippled by inferiority? Would we worship? Would we expand, inspired?<br /><br />(Hoag's isn't actually unusual. Google "Ring galaxy". It's just a cute example because it is face-on and there's that second ring galaxy in the background. Hubble images of Arp 147 & 148 are pretty cool too.))Paul451https://www.blogger.com/profile/12119086761190994938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-41919380003645664992012-06-23T17:38:25.410-07:002012-06-23T17:38:25.410-07:00A question for David - and I've sort of allude...A question for David - and I've sort of alluded to this before - assume that tomorrow we receive evidence of artificial radio signals from a nearby star.<br /><br />In your opinion:<br /><br />a. how long should we take to decide, as a species, whether or not attempt to communicate; and<br /><br />b. assuming we do decide to make contact, how long would it take to decide on and implement the required technology and the message to be sent.<br /><br />Most of the scenarios I've seen discussed seem to assume that the response time for an alien species to a signal from Earth would be effectively zero (i.e. a response would be sent almost immediately.)<br /><br />For all we know, politicians on Gliese-whatsit-d are stalling the funding for the Terawatt orbital laser because religious fundamentalists insist that any species created in God's image must have six tentacles.Ian Gouldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04352147295160200128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-92048047165235601672012-06-23T17:35:16.784-07:002012-06-23T17:35:16.784-07:00I enjoy the more esoteric notions for interstellar...I enjoy the more esoteric notions for interstellar "travel". But as a grand adventure I like most would be less engaged by some method of sending off DNA or robots or self replicating probes.<br /><br />Our imaginations are tainted by the sweet intoxicant of faster than light travel a la Star Trek. And why not after all? It is just a grander version of trans Atlantic travel in the age of Sail!<br /><br />But we don't know how to practically do FTL, it may well be that there are rules of which we are ignorant.<br /><br />Maybe FTL can only go along certain vectors, certain paths.<br /><br />We could be like an amnesia patient waking up 100 kilometers north of the Trans Siberian railway.<br /><br />Waiting around for a generational ship or a sleeper ship to come along at sublight speed could easily be the equivalent of sitting around with endless steppes on all sides, waiting for the Lake Baikal Ornithological Society to turn up!<br /><br />Tacitus2Tacitushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17007086196578740689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-76677806805089461462012-06-23T15:08:02.079-07:002012-06-23T15:08:02.079-07:00Another Fermi Paradox solutiom: David can file thi...Another Fermi Paradox solutiom: David can file this one as a Zoo/Berserker hypothesis.<br /><br />Some highly advanced alien race seeded the galaxy with intelligent species to observe their development. <br /><br />Cross-contmination between specimens makes the data worthless leading to sterlization and re-seeding.Ian Gouldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07666385933765478081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-61543757632348466732012-06-23T12:05:03.164-07:002012-06-23T12:05:03.164-07:00And no one else has taken exception with Anon'...And no one else has taken exception with Anon's claim that the experimental method was "alien" to ancient Greek thought?<br /><br />There was, for instance, a fellow by the name of Eratosthenes, who managed to derive the size and shape of the Earth to within about 2% of modern accuracy by working with empirical data (the angles of shadows in the cities of Swenet (modern Aswan) and Alexandria). He may have also used that data to work out the distance to the Sun with a fair degree of accuracy - whether he did or not depends on exactly how certain ancient texts are translated.<br /><br />You might have heard of a man by the name of Archimedes, as well...Jonathan S.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-44747868620028884772012-06-23T11:30:57.867-07:002012-06-23T11:30:57.867-07:00" The Old Ones of the Galaxy deliberate switc..." The Old Ones of the Galaxy deliberate switched to communicating via neutrinos so that they won't be eavedropped upon by us darn pesky kids!"<br /><br />Good one! The best codes/ciphers are the ones you don't even notice.ellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-68210889862452837492012-06-23T09:53:04.793-07:002012-06-23T09:53:04.793-07:00@Anon:
"....The concepts of "linear time...@Anon:<br /><i>"....The concepts of "linear time" and "free will" given by the Jews ..."</i><br /><br />...would sound familiar to the "pagans" of Northern Europe.<br /><br />Ya know, *someone* had to be first to invent science. Whoever was first can invent all sorts of "Just-So" stories to explain why the Elephant's Child of Science required the Alligator of Christianity to pull on its nose. That doesn't make it "true" in any meaningful sense.<br /><br />Indeed, as others have pointed out, it was only in the REJECTION of Christian supernaturalist concepts as an explanation for everyday phenomenon that science became possible. It was also necessary to discard the primacy of the substance/essence structure of reality and the Argument From Authority mode of reasoning which remains the core of Catholic (...as opposed to Christian) teaching.<br /> <br /><i>".... Existence for them was a dreary, never ending repetition of sameness..."</i><br /><br />Oh good lord what piffle. Certainly many feudal societies did their best to persuade the peasantry of a Candidian universe; the Christian innovation of promising a future, post-death paradise FAR from promoting the concept of progress was instead politically useful in promoting the continued sameness of earthly dreariness. <b> "Slaves, love and obey your masters as ye love Christ"</b> (Ephesians 6:5) is one of the most anti-progress doctrines ever written. I mention this not to excoriate Christianity, but to point out that in a book the size of the Bible and a culture as large as Christianity, you can find support for almost any doctrine at all, e.g. without a doubt, Christianity was the necessary precursor to the development of the Fig Newton (Mark 11:20). To claim therefore that Christianity or something like it was a necessary precursor to the development of science is just silly piffle.<br /><br />Which is not to say it won't sell books. People LOVE silly piffle that tells them they are part of a special society responsible for all that is good.rewinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14008105385364113371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-52943102235042129562012-06-23T09:41:52.285-07:002012-06-23T09:41:52.285-07:00great postgreat postExcel-Macroshttp://www.macros-in-excel.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-17750650619125012182012-06-23T05:20:21.674-07:002012-06-23T05:20:21.674-07:00Re Paul451 "and k4ntico's similar version...Re Paul451 "and k4ntico's similar version, both try to solve the SETI-variant of Fermi's Paradox. But don't solve the full colonisation variant."<br /><br />That's quite brutal. If the <i>rule</i> is for civilizations to positively learn of others from <i>exceptional</i> patterns of supernovae in distant galaxies after millennia of observation, it's quite feasible to imagine a lesson thus learned that strongly discourages expanding one's visible footprint...<br /><br />The shorthand name for that "solution", perhaps, hyperlinear war visibility.Boris Borcichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05869004550299424489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-21518956540667607792012-06-23T01:57:12.607-07:002012-06-23T01:57:12.607-07:00As for the idea that China could never had devleop...As for the idea that China could never had devleoped science.<br /><br />They were pretty damn close.<br /><br />en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Hui<br /><br />Yang Hui BTW lived during the mongol invasion of souhern China and much of his work was lost as a result.Ian Gouldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04352147295160200128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-45474985386847177862012-06-23T01:22:21.082-07:002012-06-23T01:22:21.082-07:00Paul451: Greg Egan goes even further in Quarantine...Paul451: Greg Egan goes even further in Quarantine by invoking the Observer Effect interpretation of quantum mechanics.<br /><br />Humans aren't just observing pre-existing physical phenomena in space, we're collapsing indeterminate quantum superpositions and creating deterministic valeus for the physical contants (for example) that didn't previously exist.<br /><br />It's several years since I read the book but IIRC, the final straw that led to the aliens uarantining Earth was us measuring the age and mass of the universe and its rate of expansion with such accuracy that we excluded the possibility of a future Big Crunch and condmend both oruselves and every other intelligent species to living in a universe that's ever expanding and ever cooling.Ian Gouldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04352147295160200128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-89066196487028321602012-06-23T01:15:01.171-07:002012-06-23T01:15:01.171-07:00"Re: Roman Catholicism as the secret sauce of..."Re: Roman Catholicism as the secret sauce of science.<br />Science blossomed during and after the Reformation. The spread of Catholicism across Europe seemed to shut down independent inquiry. (Although the "Dark Ages" is apparently exaggerated.) But I do wonder if the secret sauce was the printing press. Plus multiple civilisation near enough to trade ideas quickly. The printing press allows ideas to spread, with suppressed ideas finding haven in neighbouring civilisations until they can re-infest the civilisation that suppressed the creator.)"<br /><br />In a perverse roundabotu way, the Fall of constantinople ha a lot to do with the advance of science in western Europe.<br /><br />When the Ottomans conquired Constantiniple, lots of Greeks fled to Euroep taking various classical works with them.<br /><br />The early stages of the Renaissance were already under way but the influx of Grek texts (and of Greek scholars able to translate texts already present)and of classical art work had a major influence.<br /><br />Of coursse, things didn't really get moving in Europe for about another two hundred years.<br /><br />The start of the colonization of North America had a ouple of major impacts on Western Europe which we tend to overlook today.<br /><br />1. Cod fishing and whaling introduced new cheap sources of protein. (Slightly later, trapping also introduced a huge new supply of furs which made winter clothing much cheaper, effectively boosting income. It's easy to ignore that as late as the 18th century the fur trade was the single largest source of wealth in North America.)<br /><br />2. As well as new agricultural crops which lifted productivity and living standards, the Europeans were able to break the former Ottoman monopoly on sugar, coffee and various other tropical crops. The slave plantations of the Caribbean effectively replaced the slave plantatiosn of southern Iraq and the hefty associated profits shifted from Trukish hands to European hands.<br /><br />3. In most civilizatiosn pre-1500 you see a pattern: populaton grows and living standards expand until the limits of production given technological and land restrcitions are reached. After that, population continues to increase and living standards decline with farms shriking in size. <br /><br />European populations continued to rise after the discovery of the Americas but emigration reduced the rate of that growth meaning the new crops and food sources I mentioned before allowed living standards to be maintained or increased, increasing the revenue available to the state.<br /><br />(Something similar happened in 18th century China where the same food crops were introduced allowing peopel to supplement paddie rice production with production of crops like chillis and banans on land that had previously been unused. The Ching empire also expanded geographically to the south and west and encouraged colonization of those areas by Han chinese.)Ian Gouldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04352147295160200128noreply@blogger.com