tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post6481198515069476534..comments2024-03-28T09:30:58.096-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Science Fiction CinemaDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-16931430828979629342018-10-30T02:05:35.609-07:002018-10-30T02:05:35.609-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.siskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07076079736141144027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-2039489608688849492015-08-05T15:43:42.539-07:002015-08-05T15:43:42.539-07:00Okay the next one is up... and provocative...
......Okay the next one is up... and provocative...<br /><br />...onwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-82785186151138988762015-08-05T14:05:27.977-07:002015-08-05T14:05:27.977-07:00Also, I agree that research is an adventure. When ...Also, I agree that research is an adventure. When I was doing it I had lots of adventures. And it's deeply satisfying. I even came up with a few game-changers.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-65862350650499903932015-08-05T12:34:29.105-07:002015-08-05T12:34:29.105-07:00"So how about a series of fantasy adventures ..."So how about a series of fantasy adventures about commoners who band together to form a nascent democracy and a fearsome army of foot soldiers?" <br /><br />Oddly enough, my daughter is working on something similar as we speak ... uh ... type. In her story a democracy has already been established, though, modeled loosely on the Florentine Republic, and is trying to spread democracy to other nations. I've been helping her with the research, and found myself tempted to bring up Francesco Sforza, but chances are few people would know who that was. You are right that there was a lot more going in in the West than the Feudal system with its knights in shining armor romanticized all the way back in the 14th Century by the Arthurian legends. It would be nice if Hollywood, or a brace of popular novelists, would acknowledge that diversity.Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-68561976112123493692015-08-05T10:52:24.387-07:002015-08-05T10:52:24.387-07:00Actually, one of the common things people do with ...Actually, one of the common things people do with Elder Scrolls: Skyrim (at least) is explore and build a home... and business. Even the core game allows that on some level, but the mods? Multiple home-building mods that predated Hearthfire, Trade Routes, different things to craft... heck, mods to increase the reality of the world (Frostfall and Hunterborn, for example) also abound. <br /><br />Who cares about saving the world in Skyrim? It's much more fun to go off and do your own thing... and the game will let you. And that liberty is why it continues to be a fun game that still has new mods made for it years after its launch.<br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-72518842863452832842015-08-05T09:51:46.514-07:002015-08-05T09:51:46.514-07:00Dr. Brin, I have to intervene in this nostalgia fo...Dr. Brin, I have to intervene in this nostalgia for medieval life. I agree completely with you. When I was younger I spent several years in a couple of dirt-poor third-world countries on some development projects. I was in the field for months on end so I saw with my own eyes how people there lived. It is not a happy existence but one full of disease and hardship. They live in fear of their children falling sick with no doctor, of insects and other animals eating their crops and inter-tribal violence. Every day is back-breaking labor just to survive and they dream of one thing and that is that their children go to school and escape from the life they lead. For me there is no romance in this nostalgia. I just can’t understand why anyone would even consider it as a model. People like that dream of adventure but they rarely really go on one because it is so much easier to stay at home of and dream useless dreams.Deuxglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03488986307291616948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-76401059569125852832015-08-05T09:13:25.815-07:002015-08-05T09:13:25.815-07:00So why does fantasy have to to always focus on feu...So why does fantasy have to to always focus on feudalism?<br /><br />It wasn't the only game in town. There were democracies (Swiss), clan groups (Scots), communes (The Almoghavirs of Spain), merchant republics (Venice), freebooter and mercenary companies that elected their leaders (the Catalan Grand Company, the White Company), religious orders that elected their leaders (from warrior monks to the Papacy itself), Asiatic hordes (the Mongols and Tartars elected their Khans), and any number of communities of free peasants.<br /><br />They all had one thing in common: they were awesome, kick-ass warriors (especially the Swiss who revolutionized warfare by making infantry predominant on the battlefield again). So if you want action/adventure these are your guys - not some effete lords on horseback.<br /><br />Mu ajor complaint agains GoT is that it never shows any evideence (outside of the Night's Watch) of elections anywher in Westeros. Given its size and diversity this is just not realistic.<br /><br />So how about a series of fantasy adventures about commoners who band together to form a nascent democracy and a fearsome army of foot soldiers?DPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07087941506162882852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-81704407817482258232015-08-05T08:40:14.676-07:002015-08-05T08:40:14.676-07:00Dr. Brin, it is funny that when I asked you the qu...Dr. Brin, it is funny that when I asked you the question about which of your stories would make a good mini-series you responded with « Kiln People » because I was thinking of that one too. It’s a great story and I am glad someone is working on it. I would love a remake of “Postman” into a mini-series too but this time following closely the book. Of course one that I would really love to see is the “Uplift Trilogy”. Unfortunately it would be too ambitious and expensive but I can still dream. Intelligent chimpanzees would make great characters and easy to relate to because they are guys you go out with and have a few beers. Maybe you could write a story in the Uplift Universe specially tailored for a mini-series or series screenplay. I am sure it would cause interest.Deuxglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03488986307291616948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-69973992325517093222015-08-05T07:57:59.013-07:002015-08-05T07:57:59.013-07:00Jumper, in my experience, the people who have had ...Jumper, in my experience, the people who have had "adventures" are the ones who warn people against it, and those that are best suited for romantic style adventure are the ones who don't need it.<br /><br />My own experience of a much more safe "adventure" was a Watson Fellowship where I traveled for a year in Western Europe studying. A very formative experience for me, and I wouldn't give it up, but as difficult as it was at times, it was nowhere near as dangerous as a "true romantic" adventure.<br /><br />I do take Heinlein's dictate about avoiding specialization to heart though...and find that my atavistic thrill-seeking is fulfilled without needing to slay other people.<br /><br />Honestly, it feels like Treebeard is saying, "because we have always been this way, we should always be this way," which sounds very John Campbellian to me. Well I like civilization and its re-routing of these violent tendencies into avenues more conducive to building societies, rather than tearing them down.SteveOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-15372785104259268922015-08-05T07:46:17.462-07:002015-08-05T07:46:17.462-07:00Paul SB, regarding IB - I have been involved in IB...Paul SB, regarding IB - I have been involved in IB as a parent since it started with the opening of the elementary school my girls went to. IB is a framework, but different schools use the framework differently. The external auditing is really important, but there is high variation in what is actually implemented. I do believe the structure is really sound, but if IB is missing something it is more uniformity in how people interpret that structure while still preserving local flavor.<br /><br />To contrast even within the same high school, the stated requirements for her first project were so dumb they didn't make any sense. Like, "you must take an average to get full credit" when taking an average is not applicable. She wanted to figure out the optimal fuel efficiency ballistic path for launching a rocket off of the Moon, and the teacher couldn't even tell her she didn't have the math she needed to do it.<br /><br />So it is not a universal awesomeness. I do like the approach and think that it *could* be universally awesome!SteveOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-48060920739969767032015-08-05T04:24:24.090-07:002015-08-05T04:24:24.090-07:00I still wonder why the ones whining about lack of ...I still wonder why the ones whining about lack of adventure seem to be the ones who can hardly be pried out of their parents' basements or away from a screen. I could bet money and likely win it that these types never owned a motorcycle, never did research, never climbed an oil rig or cell tower or ship's mast, never hiked 1000 miles or climbed a mountain. Or learned to dance.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-65710262744150501762015-08-04T21:24:33.472-07:002015-08-04T21:24:33.472-07:00I have no idea if this will interest anyone here, ...I have no idea if this will interest anyone here, but I recently came across a comic series that is a fantasy in a medieval setting that avoids some of the more objectionable aspects of your typical fantasy story. It's called Mouse Guard, and I'm sure you can tell by the name it's intended for kids in the 10-12 range. There are no humans, and the mice live in scattered, independent towns, without any kings. The Guard has a strict non-interference policy, their job is to protect travelers between the towns from predators. One thing I like about the series is that it does not make good and evil into racial categories, one of the problems I have with Tolkien and most fantasy stories. Often the villains are mice rather than predators, and in a couple cases the predators show some real honor. And the characters have some depth to their personalities, unlike your typical comic book fare. If anyone has offspring at home around that age range, you might give it a look. Unfortunately I only discovered it a couple months ago and it has been going for a few years, now. It's already getting hard to find back issues, but the whole series has been combined into hardback volumes. The art is quite beautiful as well, another thing that makes it much better than what you usually get in graphic novel form, if you're into art.Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-36876848620394202572015-08-04T21:13:38.727-07:002015-08-04T21:13:38.727-07:00SteveO, I totally missed the IB thing, even though...SteveO, I totally missed the IB thing, even though you clearly wrote it in your post. Give me a second and I'll get off my soap box.<br /><br /><br /><br />Okay, there. <br /><br />Both of my kids have gone to IB schools, and I have never seen anything like that come up. I'm guessing your daughter took an active role in getting into the program. I wish I could do this sort of thing for my students. The most I have managed was write letters of rec for a few bright young ones to get internships at a local research hospital. It's a great experience for them, as they get to do some real scientific research, mainly in cancer and diabetes, and get to taste what it is like to work in a lab. In my neighborhood that is an amazing opportunity.Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-78392224072130388242015-08-04T20:36:06.894-07:002015-08-04T20:36:06.894-07:00It looks like I typed just a couple minutes too sl...It looks like I typed just a couple minutes too slow...Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-80280473074764835072015-08-04T20:35:07.190-07:002015-08-04T20:35:07.190-07:00Daniel, I can't speak for Dr. Brin, but he see...Daniel, I can't speak for Dr. Brin, but he seems a sophisticated enough person to recognize that Tolkien's work was more than just promotion of Medievalism. Tolkien was obviously a much more sophisticated person and writer than the plethora of poor imitators that rode in on his coat tails. He was certainly more sophisticated by far than George Lucas. But he was still very much a 19th Century thinker, in spite of the century he spent most of his life in. LOTR certainly contained some good messages, but it gives many people the impression that the dark and bloody times he studied and taught were glorious times. He wasn't completely backward in that sense, though, as we saw with Eowyn, and in other works like Farmer Giles of Ham, where the farmer manages to outwit the king. So he wasn't really a Feudalist, and perhaps his views of one half of the species were more enlightened than was typical of his time. I don't know if he made any comment about the Pankhursts or the subject more generally.<br /><br />Anyway, I think the objection is just that the series taps into exactly that craving so many of us have for some dopamine inducing, meaning seeking excitement that so few of us get out of our little cog lives. But it attaches that sense of excitement to a fantasy version of the Dark Ages. Because of how associative memory works (think Vyogotsky & schema theory) you end up with deluded people (I won't name any names) who spend their lives looking backward for inspiration instead of forward. So many people whitewash all that brutality and human misery as glory. These are part of why, though I started reading Tolkien in fifth grade, I had pretty much given up on fantasy as a genre by seventh grade. SF looks to the future instead of glorifying the past.<br /><br />This might sound strange coming from a former archaeologist, but I was under no illusions about past glory when I began my training. My purpose was to discover what I could about what makes humans tick. Since there's over 7 billion of them on the planet, I thought at the time that it seemed like a good idea.Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-36082305486199803472015-08-04T20:33:21.266-07:002015-08-04T20:33:21.266-07:00Daniel, fascinating thoughts. Still, I think that...Daniel, fascinating thoughts. Still, I think that lust for immortality is one dimension of Tolkien's obsession. Hatred of modernity is another. He watched modernity mow down his friends at the Somme.<br /><br />See my riff on Tolkien:<br />http://www.davidbrin.com/tolkien.htmlDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1191670736374106232015-08-04T19:34:25.377-07:002015-08-04T19:34:25.377-07:00oooh... If KILN PEOPLE winds up on TV, please, ple...oooh... If KILN PEOPLE winds up on TV, please, please, please do the joke where someone can't quite tell the difference between the dit and its owner.<br /><br />Seriously. Who could distinguish the dit.Kardashian?Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-63969907376768340482015-08-04T19:22:34.464-07:002015-08-04T19:22:34.464-07:00@treebeard: Oooh. I get you know. DANGER, CONFLI...@treebeard: Oooh. I get you know. DANGER, CONFLICT, CREATION, and DESTRUCTION.<br />POWER, FOUND, LAW-GIVER, and LORD OF THE EARTH!<br /><br />Just go get yourself a Physics PhD. Other subject areas probably work too. The ego carnage I witnessed was impressive. So much conflict, but so much creation as a result. The surviving egos towered over the meek and demanded obeisance. <br /><br />I survived with an effectively bullet-proof ego as a result.<br />Try it.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-23255248553776375522015-08-04T18:28:18.164-07:002015-08-04T18:28:18.164-07:00(cont.)
To see LoTR as merely promoting feudalism...(cont.)<br /><br />To see LoTR as merely promoting feudalism is to miss the point of the story entirely. The society of Middle Earth is just a setting for a battle against th elust for power and the gasping for immorality.<br /><br />However, absent this spiritual dimension, I might be cheering for the Orcs.<br /><br />http://www.salon.com/2011/02/15/last_ringbearer/<br /><br />Well, there’s two sides to every story, or to quote a less banal maxim, history is written by the winners. That’s the philosophy behind “The Last Ringbearer,” a novel set during and after the end of the War of the Ring (the climactic battle at the end of “The Lord of the Rings”) and told from the point of view of the losers. <br /><br />In Yeskov’s retelling, the wizard Gandalf is a war-monger intent on crushing the scientific and technological initiative of Mordor and its southern allies because science “destroys the harmony of the world and dries up the souls of men!” He’s in cahoots with the elves, who aim to become “masters of the world,” and turn Middle-earth into a “bad copy” of their magical homeland across the sea. Barad-dur, also known as the Dark Tower and Sauron’s citadel, is, by contrast, described as “that amazing city of alchemists and poets, mechanics and astronomers, philosophers and physicians, the heart of the only civilization in Middle-earth to bet on rational knowledge and bravely pitch its barely adolescent technology against ancient magic.”<br /><br />DPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07087941506162882852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-68484018378726600382015-08-04T18:22:22.438-07:002015-08-04T18:22:22.438-07:00@Dr. Brin - "Tolkien cannot conceive of moder...@Dr. Brin - "Tolkien cannot conceive of modernity being the vehicle for delivering that better world – he prefers feudalism, idealizing a version that never-was."<br /><br />I agree with you in regards to feudalism, but remember that Middle Earth and even the War of the Ring was just a stage for a much greater spiritual conflict based on Tolkien's Catholic faith. Kings, lords, wizards, hobbits and rings were just stage props supporting this main idea:<br /><br />"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work," he wrote, "unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like "religion", to cults or practices, in the Imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism" <br /><br />At the heart of this great spiritual struggle is the great temptation for power and the even greater temptation for physical immortality:<br /><br />http://www.firstthings.com/article/2003/11/tolkien-and-the-gift-of-mortality<br /><br />Clearly, mortality is at the heart of this story. The subject has become a hot topic today, with Leon Kass and other “mortalists” arguing against a research culture that sees death and aging merely as foes to be overcome. If medicine succeeds in making man immortal, or even much longer-lived, the mortalists argue, much that makes human life worthwhile will be lost. Kass has used the wisdom of such ancient authors as Homer to illustrate his vision of mortality’s benefits. In The Lord of the Rings , Tolkien makes a Christian case for the same claim. In Tolkien’s world, immortality and long life lead even the noblest creatures to a spiritual dead end, or to outright corruption.<br /><br />Personal immortality, or the lure of it, seems to turn members of all these races in on themselves. The Elves dwell more in their memories than in the present; the long-lived mortal races turn to glorious deeds in an attempt at personal immortality. For the Elves and the Ents, the result is a kind of lethargy. For men it can be far more sinister: in Boromir and especially in Denethor, Tolkien shows the pride and despair that come from the pursuit of personal immortality through individual glory.<br /><br />The Hobbits have no illusions that they can in any sense live forever. As a result, they concentrate on immediate and animal concerns. They pursue immortality only by a far humbler and more mortal path, the ordinary, impersonal, animal immortality of parenthood. It’s no accident that everyone who meets the Hobbits mistakes them for children at first. Even after long acquaintance, they are to Legolas “those merry young folk” and to Treebeard “the Hobbit children.” Something about the Hobbits is so lively and natural that they invariably turn the minds of others toward childhood and children.<br /><br />This fertility, this willingness to pass life on to a new generation rather than grasping for “endless life unchanging,” is the Hobbits’ great strength, as it should likewise be mankind’s proper strength. It makes them at once humbler than immortals, since they place less confidence in their own individual abilities, and more hopeful, since their own individual defeats are not the end of everything. The life that lives for its offspring may never achieve perfection, but neither is it ever utterly defeated or utterly corrupted.Some hope always remains. <br />DPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07087941506162882852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-39808919495795066402015-08-04T18:04:47.078-07:002015-08-04T18:04:47.078-07:00"I suppose in your world, Israel would be poi..."<i>I suppose in your world, Israel would be pointless without a Palestinian enemy</i>"<br /><br />Actually, I'm not sure Israel can even <b>function</b> without its hereditary punching bag: how do you stop the Mizrahi underclass from starting a violent uprising against their Ashkenazi overlords if you take away the Palestinian bogeyman?Laurent Weppenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-31070315282480148772015-08-04T16:54:24.802-07:002015-08-04T16:54:24.802-07:00locumranch:
Then, I would like him to admit that ...locumranch:<br /><i><br />Then, I would like him to admit that Treebeard is essentially correct about the human need for conflict & adventure, especially in story-telling, as a future (or story) ruled by actuaries & chartered accountants is both bleak and uninteresting.<br /></i><br /><br />Is it really a stretch to posit that what people crave from fiction and what they'd like their lives to really be like are two different things? I can love the movie "The Great Escape" without wanting to actually be imprisoned in a Nazi POW camp.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-52879954251821386762015-08-04T16:51:01.429-07:002015-08-04T16:51:01.429-07:00Treebeard:
Heroism, adventure, passion, great myt...Treebeard:<br /><i><br />Heroism, adventure, passion, great mythic struggles – these are what many of us crave, not the soft, sleepy existence of the bourgeois early 21st century “progressive”! Why do you think so many people are escaping into virtual adventure worlds? Because this one is frankly becoming a boring, soul-starving technocratic prison planet. And that’s the problem with this kind of civilization: it destroys opportunities for heroic living...<br /></i><br /><br />Plenty of people get their adventure fix from fiction and video games without having to live with the real-life consequences of being in such a world.<br /><br />Opportunities for actual heroism, if not as gaudy as the movie kind, at least more meaningful, are there even in a boringly peaceful world too. Read Dr Brin's novel "Earth" for some examples, including a warrior giving all to stop a real-life villain.<br /><br />Instead, you seem to wish for an intentionally-purposeless fight against enemies you can never actually defeat because you need them to give your life meaning. I used to gag at comic book writers who would insist that (for example) Captain America <b>needs</b> there to be a Red Skull as a dark mirror image of himself. I suppose in your world, Israel would be pointless without a Palestinian enemy, and the United States has no purpose without Hitler.<br /><br />As Dave Sim of "Cerebus" fame would have it, "Sometimes you can get what you want and still not be very happy."LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-32975163125362150112015-08-04T16:10:52.642-07:002015-08-04T16:10:52.642-07:00"EVE Online, you're a starship you travel..."<i>EVE Online, you're a starship you travels hundreds of times faster than light at a whim, treats planetary GDPs like pocket change, and keeps as many backups of their meat-core as their immense wealth can buy</i>"<br /><br />At least, Capsulers being a dangerous and barely manageable bunch of sociopaths has always been acknowledged by the lore and is an important part of the plot (the people who invented the technology had already weeded out aggressive impulses through genetical engineering and it's heavily hinted that providing the technology to the more warlike civilizations Player Characters hail from was an enormous blunder)<br /><br />When we're in the subject of MMOs, Realm Reborn has a rather humbling way of weaving the PCs into the plot: for all their mights, the player-controlled adventurers are in the end little more than pawns that the local Powers That Be use in their feudal feuds: in Eorza "<i>Professional Godslayer</i>" is a fancy way to say "<i>Glorified Lackey of the Nobility</i>"Laurent Weppenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-47965647976986956762015-08-04T15:52:49.205-07:002015-08-04T15:52:49.205-07:00Episode 8 of "Dark Matter" is a "Ki...Episode 8 of "Dark Matter" is a "Kiln People" scenario/ripoff. Travel by creating a short lived clone that has its memories transferred back to your body at termination. They just didn't have the different colors and traits.Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.com