tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post5948356470687259555..comments2024-03-28T20:50:49.311-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: An Asian Journey - part oneDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-73971844569826181742007-09-25T14:49:00.000-07:002007-09-25T14:49:00.000-07:00I prefer Shanghai to Beijing. Shanghai is more com...I prefer Shanghai to Beijing. Shanghai is more compact and upward built city. Thus, it is easier to get around in. They have several subway lines, and are building many more so that it will be like Tokyo. Like Tokyo, you can find convenience stores and other necessities within walking distance.<BR/><BR/>The problem with Beijing is that it is too spread out, meaning that you either have to have a car or hire taxis to take you where ever you want to go. Even then, it still takes awhile to get to where you want to go. <BR/><BR/>Also, Beijing has bloody-cold winters and is just as hot (if not humid) as Shanghai in the summer.<BR/><BR/>In all, I think Shanghai is better than Beijing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-27572246449070727622007-09-18T11:32:00.000-07:002007-09-18T11:32:00.000-07:00(a "star treatment" that you sure don't get from b...<I>(a "star treatment" that you sure don't get from blithe North American fans, who - of course - have seen it all.)</I><BR/><BR/>As a reader/fan, I'm sorry this is how fandom has treated you. Waiting on autograph lines is a small price to pay (one I've paid <B>many</B> times 8-) ) to show ones appreciation..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-52751421507275126472007-09-13T21:32:00.000-07:002007-09-13T21:32:00.000-07:00Hi, David! First-time commenter, long-time reader...Hi, David! First-time commenter, long-time reader of your books. I enjoyed reading this particular post because I'm an American expat who's been living in Asia (Korea and Singapore) for six years now. I haven't had the chance to get up to Beijing just yet, but I'm very happy you took your kids out here to see this part of the world. Asia's going to be the hub of the world for the next century or so.<BR/><BR/>Anyhoo... I found this particular comment to be very interesting:<BR/><BR/><I>And it fades wherever people lose their nerve and turn away from tomorrow... as has been happening in the USA, ever since this #$@*! century began.</I><BR/><BR/>I'd have prolly said the early to mid 90s, my self, but that's neither here nor there. This is something I've wondered about for a number of years now, why this shift away from SF. From my perspective, it has seemed like SF has been a dying genre since the 90s. Granted, some of that has been the dying off of the "Golden Age" generation, and the retirement of a number of authors from the "Dangerous Visions" era. I'd have also said a factor has been a lack of interest in science among young people, up to and including people my age (mid-40s), but perhaps the lack of interest should include other topics as well, such as history. (As you had brought up, most Anglo SF authors are voracious readers of history as opposed to science.) But this comment of yours, that SF has dwindled because people have lost their nerve, has a ring of truth to it too. This is something to ponder.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for all your writings!JDsghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735390644321868222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-46784017753907269482007-09-12T12:17:00.000-07:002007-09-12T12:17:00.000-07:00I think we can agree on a recombinant definition o...I think we can agree on a recombinant definition of YuYuan as an intrinsically chinese expression of decadent excess associated with the plutocratic mentality see across the globe and through time, from the neolithic Maeshowe of the grooved ware people to the Pacific Lodge of Bill Gates.Enterikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04758515647778280562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-76968969918058065342007-09-12T10:34:00.000-07:002007-09-12T10:34:00.000-07:00Very good points. Informative and I learned a lot...Very good points. Informative and I learned a lot.<BR/><BR/>Still, I ask that you step back and see YuYuan NOT as an intrinsically Chinese thing, but as an expression of decadent excess that is always displayed by ruling classes who have stolen vastly more from the peasants than they know what to do with.<BR/><BR/>Similar decorative excesses are seen in the European Baroque... in Tsarist Russia... and indeed, in Ancient Egypt and Mayan civilization. (The Greeks and Romans seemed culturally inclined to resist, as did the Japanese, perhaps because Bushido-like macho culture emphasized some degree of "manly simplicity.)<BR/><BR/>Yes, these tendencies will evolve away... IF the culture trends toward egalitarian and pragmatic world views. But if aristocratism and romatnticism continue rising....David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-61336696027310158452007-09-12T08:02:00.000-07:002007-09-12T08:02:00.000-07:00The cultural revolution wasn't even enough to tamp...<I>The cultural revolution wasn't even enough to tamp out millenia of Han culture, so the influence of the wider world will take time. Even more so in places like Taiwan and HongKong where ancient ways are still revered, we see more dramatic shifts towards "external" cultures.</I><BR/><BR/>To clarify what I was trying to say. Taiwan never had a cultural revolution to stamp out the old ways, in fact, many there pride themselves on such and many cultural practices remain entrenched. At the same time, Taiwan has been far more open to the outside world and has co-opted a fair ammount of alien technology and culture. What results is a cultural duality, where both aspects seems intensified, truely, <A HREF="http://family.webshots.com/photo/1274085777065755338ITXHKp" REL="nofollow">Long Hu</A>Enterikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04758515647778280562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-87688133951794049452007-09-12T07:14:00.000-07:002007-09-12T07:14:00.000-07:00Dr. Brin, as a geneticist I find myself using the ...Dr. Brin, as a geneticist I find myself using the concept of evolution and it's corollaries to understand the myriad of cultures that have blanketed our planet. China was no exception, with its thousands of years of cultural evolution, it's china-centered worldview, it's almost complete isolation from the outside world, it is not surpising that much of what we know of as chinese culture is best adapted to the peculiarities of...chinese culture. Much of what we grok as China culture has a meaningful purpose even if it doesn't prevail when subjected to wider selective pressures (of globalization that are being fueled by the fossil remains of biological evolution) which began with the First Opium War. <BR/><BR/>For example, although I think YuYuan is historically meaningful as the epitomy of Ming-dynasty Han aestetic, with elements that are useful and inspired in a timeless way, overall it is chaotic, gaudy and difficult to execute. The Chinese I know have this reaction even if they know they are supposed to laud YuYuan as a historical achievement. So will Ming dynasty aristocratic garden sensibility expand it's influence in the population of gardens around the world, or remain a living fossil eeking by in an obscure niche? For now, it seems unlikely to catch on any time soon and the overall aesthetic will remain in it's Latimeria-like existance for the forseeable future. That is not to say that some of the design alleles it contains haven't already been carried into the present by meme descendants of Ming Gardens.<BR/><BR/>I look at Zhongyi Xue and Feng Shui in a similar way. Evolved in relative isolation, these collections of memes are currently undergoing wider selective pressure. Those practices which have utility will persist and increase their representation in the population of applied ideas in a Hardy-Weinberg-type deviation from expectation.<BR/><BR/>Over time, I expect worldwide common sense to encompass sensibilities from a wide variety of cultures, with some cultures syncretizing more quickly than others. Thus I take the apparent chaos of modern China to be an encouraging sign. The cultural revolution wasn't even enough to tamp out millenia of Han culture, so the influence of the wider world will take time. Even more so in places like Taiwan and HongKong where ancient ways are still revered, we see more dramatic shifts towards "external" cultures. All around China, I meet individuals picking and choosing from the ten thousand things that comprise world culture. Slowly, those old ways that are non-adaptable will become reduced in the population. <BR/><BR/>Of course the apparent progress of such mixing is tempered by west-east and rural-urban disparities that have the potential to revisit a Taiping, Nien, Hui, Yìhetuan Yundong, Xinhai or Communist type rebellion upon China that were so common in the long twilight of the Qing dynasty. For I see the return to prominence of the landlord class in China and with it those ancient tensions so well documented by David Hinton in Fanshen and Pearl Buck's The Good Earth. The Central Committee has a delicate balancing act to perform...Enterikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04758515647778280562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-75206460801358222312007-09-11T18:39:00.000-07:002007-09-11T18:39:00.000-07:00Well, apparently this isn't really news, and no on...Well, apparently this isn't really news, and no one has publicly stated for certain what the reaction is (if it's just burning hydrogen then there's nothing interesting here), so there's no good way of judging whether or not this is potentially meaningful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-37403955237142200312007-09-11T16:09:00.000-07:002007-09-11T16:09:00.000-07:00Holy you know what...Sorry to be way off topic, bu...Holy you know what...<BR/><BR/>Sorry to be way off topic, but have you seen this, Doc?<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://green.yahoo.com/index.php?q=node/1570" REL="nofollow">Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-60101668796612161542007-09-11T15:18:00.000-07:002007-09-11T15:18:00.000-07:00I believe it was Uighur. And YuYuan was, as you s...I believe it was Uighur. And YuYuan was, as you say, eye-opening. No one could beat the Chinese aristocracy at "gathering" the resources of others and then hiring some of them to fashion ornate, ostentatious curleques. Though I guess the Bourbons and Romanovs came close. Watch the riot scene in THE GOOD EARTH or the beginning of THE LAST EMPEROR. Dang, no wonder they had a revolution.<BR/><BR/>One other thing struck me. Along our way, we kept hearing from our guides about how this or that building had been built and then refashioned in such a way as to maximize its Chi - or positive magical energy. David Ivory, a Kiwi architect who works in Hong Kong and who traveled with us part of the way, described how even modern Chinese are often transfixed by notions like Feng Shui. Even modern office towers jostly each other, trying to face south and to maximize symbolic good over symbolic bad. It is a theme that pervades history, over there, a current that keeps running, despite all changes of dynasty or even technology. <BR/><BR/>Moreover, it has been embraced by ever larger numbers in the west, at least in a surface way. Not only eastern mystical symbolisms, but also a "return" to some that came out of the West's own symbol-drenched past. Fundamentalisms that posit the superioty of incantation over accountable verification.<BR/><BR/>Hence we have got to wonder if the tiger of the Enlightenment really is going to sway and change the dragon... or if it's going to go the other way around. Will the zeitgeist of pragmatic science prevail? Or be co-opted into ways of thinking that are far older and (I contend) far more inherently human?<BR/><BR/>Ways that credit far more power to symbols and subjectivity than symbols and subjectivity deserve.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-26131151987907471892007-09-11T11:42:00.000-07:002007-09-11T11:42:00.000-07:00DAVIDBRIN: Enterik, I cannot claim to have “done” ...DAVIDBRIN: Enterik, I cannot claim to have “done” Shanghai. No museums or street life or anything that makes a city real. But we did blitz the main tourist stuff. Pudong, the Bund, Yew Gardens, sampled the local food and shopped, then took the mag-lev. Certainly worth the risk of missing our Narita flight. We hope to come back another time, at leisure.<BR/><BR/>ENTERIK: I was hoping you went to YuYuan (Yu Gardens). I thought it a hidden gem in Shanghai. <BR/><BR/>First, you're whizzing around overcrowded streets in a VW Santana, then you're dumped onto a sidewalk of shops selling all manner of gee-gaws. Surely, this can't be your destination. But then you duck through a gap in the shops, and there's the zigzag bridge (to keep the ghosts out) angling across the Lotus Pond to the Pavillion (where Bill Clinton is reported to have eaten the white eyebrow dumplings). A quintessentially chinese experience. <BR/><BR/>To me YuYuan is at the zenith of chinese aesthetic idiosyncrasy, particularly the Geat Rockery and the Hexu Tang root furniture. We went during JuiHwa (chrysothemum) season, but even a sea of potted flowers couldn't help us get past the flies that guarded the restrooms (hopefully things have changed in the intervening years).<BR/><BR/>Can you say more about the Xinjiang-style restaurant? Was it a minority restaurant? Uyghur or Hui, perhaps?Enterikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04758515647778280562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-63875899405851735082007-09-11T09:25:00.000-07:002007-09-11T09:25:00.000-07:00Repeated, offensive remises are infantile. But th...Repeated, offensive remises are infantile. But they do make me reflect back realize. I've long put up with Don's snarls, in part because of curiosity and because I found in them occasional gems of useful citokate.<BR/><BR/>But can anyone cite a time - even once - when he conceded an opponent's point, or said "I stand corrected", or even expressed curiosity about views other than his own?<BR/><BR/>Incuriosity is sometimes called GW Bush's most fundamental intellectual sin - a hallmark of dogmatists. While we may scratch our heads over what makes them tick, they will never reciprocate.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-64473449588852744282007-09-11T04:10:00.000-07:002007-09-11T04:10:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-66671558789176193482007-09-10T23:31:00.000-07:002007-09-10T23:31:00.000-07:00I have to propose that the reason for the geograph...I have to propose that the reason for the geographical divide in America is precisely the reverse of what you suggest - to wit, that those of a "liberal" mindset tend to migrate to the city, while those of a "conservative" mindset tend to migrate away from cities.<BR/><BR/>It'd be interesting to see a study measuring the political affiliation of people who've moved from one to the other, and contrasting that with the affiliations of those who have remained in place - I predict that should such a study be done, the affiliations of those who remained in the same type of place as they were born are rather even, while those who moved from one to the other will be more skewed. (and of course, in the obvious directions.)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11507725932358099333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-35869932945370503522007-09-10T21:54:00.000-07:002007-09-10T21:54:00.000-07:00Deliberately offensive donkey dung by a person who...Deliberately offensive donkey dung by a person who was apparently too poorly raised to know even simple rules of courtesy, when in another person's house.<BR/><BR/>It would be one thing if the remarks were cogent or - indeed - were contextually related to the topic at hand. Or - indeed - expressed any intellectual curiosity or interest in learning new things.<BR/><BR/>The way I have shown curiosity and patience by welcoming Don here, remaining interested in his perspectives despite offensive behavior. But he's gone too far.<BR/><BR/>Enough. Clearly, there are "allies" who would be Robspierres to our Danton. Be wary of all who actually choose extreme sides of the insane left-right axis. And I'll not give him the respect of further discussion.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-428274808372574692007-09-10T21:27:00.000-07:002007-09-10T21:27:00.000-07:00come on at least tellus whatyour removing!come on at least tellus whatyour removing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-74006263916109990022007-09-10T21:23:00.001-07:002007-09-10T21:23:00.001-07:00Keep it up. I showed patience by allowing a comme...Keep it up. I showed patience by allowing a comment that did not deliberately offend. (Although it most definitely bore your trademark refusal to consider context or meaning, utterly ignoring how the TOPIC was the perception of SF by Chinese producers.)<BR/><BR/>But if you continue as you are going, I will make jettisoning your "remarks" a matter of routine. This is my house.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-63905028941349227482007-09-10T20:58:00.000-07:002007-09-10T20:58:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-49615912605520795682007-09-10T20:31:00.000-07:002007-09-10T20:31:00.000-07:00Again...Philip K Dick is a far more influential Sc...Again...<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.philipkdick.com/films_intro.html" REL="nofollow">Philip K Dick</A> is a far more influential Scifi writer than George Lucas.<BR/><BR/>And far more accurate..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-19097180579206103172007-09-10T20:01:00.000-07:002007-09-10T20:01:00.000-07:00As to the 'Great Wall of China'... it didn't work ...As to the 'Great Wall of China'... it didn't work very well. China did better absorbing invaders than repelling them, anyway.<BR/><BR/>"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the folly of man." George PattonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-51657900458511251792007-09-10T19:47:00.000-07:002007-09-10T19:47:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-61854005533825885762007-09-10T19:44:00.000-07:002007-09-10T19:44:00.000-07:00come on david be fair lots of us read the blog for...come on david be fair lots of us read the blog for what don has to sayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-6397908537005062022007-09-10T19:34:00.000-07:002007-09-10T19:34:00.000-07:00Typical. He not only steps over the line into bec...Typical. He not only steps over the line into becoming an abusive spite-blogger, but assumes, without even a moment's hesitation or doubt, that there's not a scintilla of self-examination called for.<BR/><BR/>Don is still welcome here. But I will not be as patient, in future. Every single time he mocks or ridicules or howls about ROTFLMAO like a buffoon... out he'll go. I think my record - only doing this every 6 months or so - speaks for itself.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-43554000104556644072007-09-10T18:36:00.000-07:002007-09-10T18:36:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-40916869624438114942007-09-10T18:34:00.000-07:002007-09-10T18:34:00.000-07:00This post has been removed by the blog administrat...<I> This post has been removed by the blog administrator.</I><BR/><BR/>Truly unfortunate...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com