tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post5099269694932832480..comments2024-03-19T05:35:07.296-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Part of the “Fiscal Cliff” Solution: the Best Tax Simplification ProposalDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger124125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-23783025423251018352013-01-26T12:49:23.098-08:002013-01-26T12:49:23.098-08:00I think the computer program already exists, at th...I think the computer program already exists, at the Tax Policy Center and other institutions, as described <a href="http://taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?DocID=2901" rel="nofollow">here</a> <br />... at least for the tax code as it is now. What remains is to design the new simplified tax code(s) and run the comparison. What if it turns out that there's no solution given your boundary condition that no one be harmed by more than 5 percent?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-14864166621048961732012-11-24T11:35:20.281-08:002012-11-24T11:35:20.281-08:00http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-11-23/pr...http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-11-23/preventing-armageddon-would-cost-only-100-million-%E2%80%A6-congress-too-thick-approvHank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-60997365594626325302012-11-20T19:44:33.356-08:002012-11-20T19:44:33.356-08:00SO his solution is to have a computer program figu...SO his solution is to have a computer program figure it out?<br /><br />Nothing like another goofy non-answer.Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10206503506011763393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-30524282258293740662012-11-20T15:23:07.925-08:002012-11-20T15:23:07.925-08:00I love the idea of a tweakable computerized versio...I love the idea of a tweakable computerized version of the IRS Tax code, but I may have a better way to use it.<br /><br />If we just twiddle the dials on the existing monstrosity, I fear we'll just wind up with a system which is theoretically less crazy, but looks even more insane. A system that complex is likely to have heterostatic tendencies, and the results are likely to contain some really counter-intuitive quirks. <br /><br />Where the existing mess is at least traceable (section 148.99RZ.2a was added on 7/14/1949 per HRes 69, sponsored by Sen F Leghorn, D-KY), the results of letting it float will have no connection to reality.<br /><br />My suggetsion is to take that same computerized system, and just slowly adjust ALL parameters toward zero - say, at 10% per year, so ten years down the line, all results are zero, and the whole thing can be thrown out (**).<br /><br />In parallel, a new system would be slowly cranked up - yeah, OK, nailing that one is the hard part, but let's leave that for the next post - growing into place at 10% per year, so the combination would be (roughly) revenue-neutral. All existing tax-breaks would be slowly phased out; citizens & business would be able to plan accordingly, to avoid macro-economic & regional shocks.<br /><br /><br />(**) Note that there are bound to be some parameters in the existing Tax code which are "upside-down", and would need to be adjusted away from zero (adjustments to exemptions to deductions, etc?). Determining the proper glide-path for these would be a chore, but kinda fun, for geeks like me/us. <br /><br />-ElkernElkernnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-7012878841123122272012-11-19T16:53:34.325-08:002012-11-19T16:53:34.325-08:00Okay, I was going to run off, but I studied your A...Okay, I was going to run off, but I studied your Adam Smith quotes more closely and can't resist commenting.<br /><br />In your first Adam Smith quote, he's talking about the medieval economy there. (For those lurkers who don't know, much of the book is historical.) It has no bearing on life under a free market. You make a similar mistake whenever you read him talking about corporations, which Smith knew only as monopoly charters issued by the crown. Free market corporations as we know them didn't exist until the Victorian era.<br /><br />In the second and third quotes, "A tax upon house-rents" and "the toll upon carriages of luxury," Smith is talking about tax incidence, and he's correct as far as I'm concerned. I don't know why you direct that at me. Conservatives have been more supportive of letting the poor bear fewer taxes. The Bush tax cuts took a lot of them off the tax rolls. Even the so-called flat tax proposals have big exemptions that let the poor of the hook, and are fairly easy on the lower and middle classes.<br /><br />You should be looking at the mirror. It is liberals who are pushing for a VAT tax. That effectively taxes the poor in a way that they'll be unable to see it happening.<br /><br />As for the last, "the spirit of sovereignty seems to have rendered them equally bad traders," which you think speak badly of Mitt Romney. I'll remind you that he was also a governor, and the son of a politician.<br /><br />But the election wasn't a contest between a trader and a prince. It was a trader and community organizer. Those were the only two choices we had. It's a pity that Adam Smith couldn't have commented on RULES FOR RADICALS.<br />RandyBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-42611216240116623422012-11-18T11:29:54.909-08:002012-11-18T11:29:54.909-08:00Here's an item about "rent-seeking" ...Here's an item about "rent-seeking" for anyone allergic to Wikipedia:<br /><a href="http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/RentSeeking.html" rel="nofollow"><br />http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/RentSeeking.html<br /></a><br /><br />I should have acknowledged that there certainly are examples in the rent of land, but it isn't about the rent of that land.<br /><br />And with that, I'm off. I'll be lurking once in a while.RandyBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-21361645294002181602012-11-17T22:44:59.015-08:002012-11-17T22:44:59.015-08:00I don't have any problem with those quotes suc...I don't have any problem with those quotes such as they are.<br /><br />The trouble is, you had earlier used the term "rent-seeking" which is completely different from rental property.<br /><br />It's not simply in a different league. "Rent-seeking" is a completely different subject than rental homes, rental cars, and rental office space. "Rent-seeking" has nothing to do with "rent" as most of us use the term.<br /><br />"Rent-seeking is what law firms are doing when they lobby Congress for higher estate taxes so that they can make more money from rich people desperate for loopholes. It has nothing to do with renting properties.<br /><br />As I said, you should have gone over to Wikipedia. An economic dictionary would also be fine.RandyBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-36909720546775887182012-11-17T18:37:35.877-08:002012-11-17T18:37:35.877-08:00These are for RandyB... though no one will ever se...<br /><br />These are for RandyB... though no one will ever see them down here, at this late date:<br /><br /> -Adam Smith<br />"All for ourselves and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind. As soon, therefore, as they could find a method of consuming the whole value of their rents themselves, they had no disposition to share them with any other persons."<br /><br />(For masters read oppressors...<br /><br />"A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be any thing very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expence, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion." <br /><br />That's from Book 5 chapter 2 of The Wealth of Nations "Of the Sources of the General or Public Revenue of the Society". <br /><br />You might also want to note this section from book 5 Chpater 1: <br /><br />"When the toll upon carriages of luxury, upon coaches, post-chaises, &c. is made somewhat higher in proportion to their weight, than upon carriages of necessary use, such as carts, waggons, &c. the indolence and vanity of the rich is made to contribute in a very easy manner to the relief of the poor, by rendering cheaper the transportation of heavy goods to all the different parts of the country." <br /><br />Also from chapter 2, for thoe who believe sucessful businessman make successful Presdients; <br /><br />"No two characters seem more inconsistent than those of trader and sovereign. If the trading spirit of the English East India company renders them very bad sovereigns; the spirit of sovereignty seems to have rendered them equally bad traders."<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-61608899333325572172012-11-16T16:31:44.996-08:002012-11-16T16:31:44.996-08:001) Joel G... Of course an asset tax is better tha...1) Joel G... Of course an asset tax is better than an income tax. Donald Trump (yes, in the one sane statement) actually said their should be such a tax once per generation or maybe decade. <br /><br />It handles the great problem: which is that wealth, like any other good thing (oxygen, water, food) becomes toxic when too concentrated. Adam Smith himself alluded to this... carefully since inherited oligarchy had all the power and was THE thing our revolution fought against.<br /><br />Wealth serves its great function, as an allure-reward for innovation and effort, only when the great oligarchy failure mode is stymied.<br /><br />But I want to fight for one thing first and that is transparency of ownership. Worldwide, no person should own anything that he or she does not DECLARE he or she owns. Unclaimed property would be abandoned by many many nefarious people and would erase most national debt.<br /><br />2) Passive "rents" were the biggest source of aristocratic income and oppression, in SMith's day.<br /><br />3) ONWARD to next posting... about SPACE!!!!David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-29542796397995275102012-11-16T16:18:53.625-08:002012-11-16T16:18:53.625-08:00Hi Robert
When a company, organization or individ...Hi Robert<br /><br />When a company, organization or individual uses their resources to obtain an economic gain from others without reciprocating any benefits back to society through wealth creation.<br /><br />An example of rent-seeking is when a company lobbies the government for loan subsidies, grants or tariff protection. These activities don't create any benefit for society, they just redistribute resources from the taxpayers to the special-interest group.<br /><br />That definition would also cover the landlord of a large estate<br />The "Lord of the Manor"<br />Any improvements to the land would be done by the tenant farmers, the Lord would merely "seek rent"<br /><br />This is what Adam Smith was talking about - the passive "owner"<br /><br />- The "apartment rent" <br />Here (and in the UK) some people "own" their apartments - they have paid for the building - they are still responsible for "land rent"<br /><br />The owner of the land did nothing to create that land<br />He just rents it out <br />duncan cairncrossnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-60086012117132235072012-11-16T15:18:23.433-08:002012-11-16T15:18:23.433-08:00David,
I'll acknowledge that rent-seeking is ...David,<br /><br />I'll acknowledge that rent-seeking is not solely from government, but that's how you get most of it -- especially in the modern economy.<br /><br />The bottom line is, it's not about ordinary passive investments. The landlord is not "rent-seeking."<br />RandyBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-66083994792694466432012-11-16T15:08:43.173-08:002012-11-16T15:08:43.173-08:00David,
Sorry, but it's difficult to see the p...David,<br /><br />Sorry, but it's difficult to see the point. I'm only talking about rent-seeking. Unless Wikipedia's source is wrong about the etymology, Adam Smith never used the term.<br /><br />Passive investments are a different topic.<br />RandyBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-38711802145836520742012-11-16T15:05:13.675-08:002012-11-16T15:05:13.675-08:00Steve O
As more information on the Petraeus matte...Steve O<br /><br />As more information on the Petraeus matter comes to light it is "smelling" a little less rank. If you don't object I will wait a little longer before passing final judgement.<br /><br />I feel no particular need to apologize to our employee, Mr. Obama. I still think it could have been handled better.<br /><br />Long drive today, long night ahead. But the matter has been on my mind a little.<br /><br />Perhaps the underlying meaning here is that the good General is no longer the indispensable man he has been in years past. After all, if you are critically needed for the national good all your perceived flaws are of no import. (I was thinking about Alan Turing, not that homosexuality is a flaw per se). <br /><br />Only when things are under control again do these things seem to matter.<br /><br />Perhaps the world is improving, news of the day not withstanding.<br /><br />TacitusTacitushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17007086196578740689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-5798461925443454602012-11-16T14:42:50.857-08:002012-11-16T14:42:50.857-08:00I have skimmed the comments and I am surprised no ...I have skimmed the comments and I am surprised no one has taken issue truly with what income tax represents.. its a tax on people trying to make it, but those who aren't yet rich. Oh sure, some is taxed on the very rich on their earned interest (or dividends and capital gains), and but I fundamentally oppose income tax as it slows down the opportunity of the poor to become rich and the current system slows down foolish rich people from losing their riches. <br /><br />An asset tax of net worth is my go to plan. Leave the income tax as it is today for those who make wages alone. The debates of whether it is $250k or $500k is an argument between upper middle class and middle class. The oligarchs are winning the real class war by getting us to fight ourselves. <br /><br />An asset tax of 0.3% on net worth would probably start the ball rolling down the path with little political screaming, and as Republicans get to save face on the income tax front. <br /><br />The US should raise the age of retirement to 67 to match the Greeks and the Canadians. No mandatory retirement. Not everyone can work til they are 70 but some can and society benefits from their experience. <br /><br />And I haven't seen a federal sales tax (5%?) which probably also fix the fiscal problems. It unfortunately targets the poor so maybe follow Canada's lead and offer graduating rebates for those under $45k (at least for those who file tax returns).<br /><br />I will note that the politicians who gave Canada the federal GST left with a 15% approval rating, and but their successors, used it to run a surplus. Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09707861909013671695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-60856745186988247512012-11-16T14:40:07.361-08:002012-11-16T14:40:07.361-08:00RandyB I responded directly to your claim that &qu...RandyB I responded directly to your claim that "rent-seeking" pertained only to the government. Bizarre.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-75781503693720110932012-11-16T14:36:02.800-08:002012-11-16T14:36:02.800-08:00Is anyone else here familiar with "conservape...Is anyone else here familiar with "conservapedia", the fair--and-balanced answer to the liberal bias of wikipedia?<br /><br />I just had to look in on what they had to say about the subject of "secession".<br /><br />http://www.conservapedia.com/Secession<br /><br /><i><br /><b>Texas </b><br />In 1835, after offenses by the Mexican government, the foreign settlers in Texas (primarily Americans) decided to rebel against the Mexican Government. During the siege of The Alamo the Texans decided that it was time to declare their independence. After the Texas War of Independence Texas became a Republic and eventually joined the United States in 1845. <br /><br /><b>The South</b> <br />The most famous example in US History of secession is the Southern Secession of late 1860 and 1861. After the election of Abraham Lincoln the South felt her power threatened from Northern Republicans. After their secession they formed the Confederate States of America. After 4 years of gruesome fighting in the American Civil War the South lost her independence. <br /></i><br /><br />Although this article is always good for a chuckle (I'll give them props for listing his birthplace as Hawaii):<br /><br />http://www.conservapedia.com/Barack_Obama<br /><br /><i><br />Barack Hussein Obama II (b. August 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii) was elected the 44th President in 2008, and reelected in 2012. Promoted heavily by liberals, as demonstrated by his unjustified receipt of the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize, Obama won the presidency despite a short and unremarkable political career by outspending his opponent, John McCain, by hundreds of millions of dollars in 2008. <br /><br />The liberal claptrap that helped elect Obama as president seems silly today. It was claimed, for example, that Obama has millions of followers on Twitter, when allegedly some 70% of them are fake.[2] And although the lamestream media promoted Obama as a great orator, in fact he relies almost entirely on teleprompters for his speeches and press conferences, and at one point even had teleprompters set up for him in a middle school classroom in order to speak to the media.<br /></i><br /><br />There's more.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-84004610814613115242012-11-16T14:18:23.043-08:002012-11-16T14:18:23.043-08:00Here's a good definition of it from Investoped...Here's a good definition of it from Investopedia, Duncan:<br /><br />When a company, organization or individual uses their resources to obtain an economic gain from others without reciprocating any benefits back to society through wealth creation.<br /><br />An example of rent-seeking is when a company lobbies the government for loan subsidies, grants or tariff protection. These activities don't create any benefit for society, they just redistribute resources from the taxpayers to the special-interest group.<br /><br /><br />http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rentseeking.asp#ixzz2CQVtmQBn<br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-79068377749409632082012-11-16T14:09:02.459-08:002012-11-16T14:09:02.459-08:00Rent-seeking
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought
r...Rent-seeking<br /><br />Maybe I'm wrong but I thought <br />rent-seeking meant exactly that<br />Passive rents on property<br />Maybe not on an apartment where the upkeep is part of the "rent"<br />But is that not normally charged separately?<br />But definitely rent on land<br />Where the "landowner" does nothing - just collects the rent<br /><br />This is where most of the rich used to get their income<br /><br />duncan cairncrossnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-81149039590769141782012-11-16T13:54:08.516-08:002012-11-16T13:54:08.516-08:00Robert,
I disagree. The language isn't obtus...Robert,<br /><br />I disagree. The language isn't obtuse. It's formal, which may have been your complaint, but it's otherwise fairly modern. It's not King James Version or iambic pentameter.<br /><br />I dunno what makes you all think you can claim I didn't read it, or didn't comprehend it.<br /><br />If you read above, I'm the one who pointed out that "rent-seeking" doesn't mean the landlord trying to collect the rent on an apartment. If you're not willing to say it does, then I don't see your point.RandyBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-24876644092154908632012-11-16T13:46:01.425-08:002012-11-16T13:46:01.425-08:00Smith was very clear about "rent-seeking.&quo...Smith was very clear about "rent-seeking." Which today manifests as dividends and capital gains from passive investments. The very forms of income he called most liked by the oligarchs, because they take little effort... and the very kinds that the GOP has worked hardest to arrange to be taxed at half the rate that honest work is taxed. <br /><br />The prediction that fresh flows of money into the pockets of the rich would be invested in active improvements in "supply" through bursts of R&D and capital formation and new products... that prediction proved absolutely false, as Smith would have told you ...<br /><br />...and as the Congressional Research Service has now verified. Supply Side and Laffer laughable are disproved, scientifically wrong. Yes lies. As Smith would have told you.<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62645294331596579882012-11-16T13:04:36.135-08:002012-11-16T13:04:36.135-08:00Okay, RandyB. Did you thoroughly read it? Did you ...Okay, RandyB. Did you thoroughly read it? Did you read the first few paragraphs and give up? Did you skim through it and not really get the general gist of it? Did you read the Wikipedia article and think that equals reading it?<br /><br />I freely admit to not having read it all the way. It is difficult reading for people seeing it's not using modern English and requires thought to understand how it fits into today's society.<br /><br />Which is why I think someone should write a modern version of it as I mentioned above.<br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-42035661410517278262012-11-16T12:52:47.899-08:002012-11-16T12:52:47.899-08:00Folks who live near LA! I'll be attending LOS...Folks who live near LA! I'll be attending LOSCON 39 for just one day, on Saturday November 24, to do autographing and serve on panels about writing and aliens and the singularity! With superstars like David Gerrold and Vernor Vinge. <br /><br /> Takes place at the LAX Marriott Hotel - look up further info at http://loscon.org/391/David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-11951038636540586792012-11-16T12:37:14.155-08:002012-11-16T12:37:14.155-08:00Larry,
"This may just be a semantic argument...Larry,<br /><br /><i>"This may just be a semantic argument, but I'd say the folks (more than not they're on the right) who want to MEANS TEST Social Security want it to become welfare."</i><br /><br />I agree.<br /><br /><br />David,<br /><br /><i>"RandyB you have just proved that you have not read Adam Smith. Why would you assert that you have?"</i><br /><br />Probably because I remember reading it more clearly than you can remember me not reading it.<br />RandyBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-17330767899747910332012-11-16T12:14:39.671-08:002012-11-16T12:14:39.671-08:00Again, you make me go "If I was single and ch...Again, you make me go "If I was single and childless...", because if I were, I'd be on that cruise with you.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the family has already been on a cruise this summer, and neither finances nor holiday plans will allow for another one.<br /><br />But in some alternate universe, I am so there!LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-71903439554240524712012-11-16T12:05:18.307-08:002012-11-16T12:05:18.307-08:00Here David reads one of the interludes between cha...Here David reads one of the interludes between chapters of his new novel EXISTENCE - this one asking why every age and every culture seems to overflow with folks who are fixated on the World's End. From Ragnarok to Revelation to comets... a short but thorough (and amusing) tour of this perennial obsession with doomsday! ... <br />http://youtu.be/uxO37yTmqNw<br /> <br />Oh and then come to sea with us and celebrate the world Not coming to an end during the winter solstice 2012 with parties guests & speakers, including astronaut Steve Hawley, and authors David Brin and Robert Sawyer, culminating on the steps of a Mayan Temple at H-Hour! http://www.end-of-the-world-cruise.com/ <br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.com