tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post3841505736342849189..comments2024-03-29T00:39:31.629-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Politics of Science...of Hypocrisy... and TransparencyDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-7137092610910947592012-04-17T07:14:59.879-07:002012-04-17T07:14:59.879-07:00RandyB:
The term "far left" is generall...RandyB:<br /><i><br />The term "far left" is generally used for socialists, communists, people who call themselves anarchists, etc. "Far right" is generally for neo-Nazis, some types of otherwise left-wing nationalists, sometimes the Larouchites, and other right-wing extremists.<br /></i><br /><br />I go back to the original French Revolution-era usage. Right-wing (to me) is authoritarian and pro-aristocracy. Left-wing is pro-levelling. "Far left" would be those who think that EVERYTHING belongs to the commons. "Far right" would be those who think that EVERYTHING rightly belongs to those powerful enough to grab and hold it.<br /><br /><i><br />The far right tries to attend Tea Party events, but the Tea Party disavows them. It doesn't invite them up as speakers. <br /></i><br /><br />The Tea Party was the tail that was wagged by the corporatist dog. I'm not saying that the mainstream Republicans are Tea-Partiers. I'm saying the Tea-Partiers were essentially used by the mainstream Republicans.<br /><br /><i><br />To say that the mainstream GOP is far right, you'd need to find another expression to describe those extremists who have a completely different set of goals.<br /></i><br /><br />I just did. "Right-wingers", 1789 style. Or perhaps "corporatists" is the better term for the 2000's incarnation, because corporations are the modern day aristocrats.<br /><br /><i><br />The far left doesn't simply attend left-wing functions, it actually runs most of the "anti-war" demonstrations (hence the friendship with Islamists), as well as the Occupado movement, which was itself promoted by some very prominent Democrats.<br /></i><br /><br />You're equating the part with the whole. Sure "pro-Islamicist" groups would be against the idea of America fighting them in a war. That does NOT imply that all opposition to a war is pro-Islamicist.<br /><br />Seriously--you can't conceive of any other reason for thinking "Rushing to war is a bad idea," other than "We want the other side to win."???<br /><br /><i><br />If you want to call the entire "anti-war" movement extremists who has nothing to do with regular liberals, then go right ahead. It's about time that somebody did.<br /></i><br /><br />No, the ENTIRE anti-war movement isn't extremists. The pro-Islamicist factions (if they even exist outside of your head) would be.<br /><br />Back in the 1930s, the anti-war party was the Republicans. Doubtless you'd consider them to have been pro-Germanists. Oh wait, bad example since they probably really WERE pro-German. How about the anti-Revolution colonists in 1776. I suppose they were pro-Royalty too? Oh wait, another bad example. Y'know, I'm starting to see why you think anti-war liberals are pro-enemy. It's because anti-war CONSERVATIVES generally are.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-34262256940769532102012-04-17T02:58:29.754-07:002012-04-17T02:58:29.754-07:00I'm not so sure about taxpayers profiting from...I'm not so sure about taxpayers profiting from TARP - the numbers keep going up and down.<br /><br />http://reason.com/blog/2012/04/13/tarp-profit-magically-gets-smaller-as-it<br /><br />Plus there's the whole moral hazard thing going on.Alannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-43503537657757569272012-04-16T19:56:03.954-07:002012-04-16T19:56:03.954-07:00onward...onward...David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-5220203834099019062012-04-16T19:06:07.045-07:002012-04-16T19:06:07.045-07:00Robert,
Here's one of Smedley Butler's id...Robert,<br /><br />Here's one of Smedley Butler's ideas for making war less likely/profitable:<br /><br />Acts of war to be decided by those who fight it via a limited plebiscite to determine if the war is to be fought. Eligible to vote would be those who risk death on the front lines.<br /><br />Sound like any Dean of SciFi we know ? Butler's even more hard-core, since my recollection is that Heinlien's system allowed veterans to vote in addition to active duty personnel.infanttyronenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-85497610063003223502012-04-16T19:06:06.550-07:002012-04-16T19:06:06.550-07:00The thing is the inner impulse of so many Southern...The thing is the inner impulse of so many Southerners to think multi-generationally is quite innate; it's been deliberately quashed by eschatological memes.<br /><br />Granted there is historical precedence. Perhaps the fault lies in ourselves for not predicting the millennial madness and its progress and taking precautions. Students of history might note it didn't just suddenly die down in 1001, it lingered a few years before the numerologists all fell repeatedly and painfully on their faces.<br /><br />The South got screwed in Reconstruction, and was poor for the next 60 years. Then the Depression hit. Red states. For some reason literacy was low among all groups. I am unsure why.<br /><br />But hope for the future is just beneath just about any human's facade, [even if it's derailed by angertainment addiction].<br /><br />I wouldn't give up on this.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-69877133692375985782012-04-16T18:56:45.842-07:002012-04-16T18:56:45.842-07:00Nope. The far left has pro-war Islamist friends. I...<i>Nope. The far left has pro-war Islamist friends. I'm not aware of any with friends in the ISI.</i><br /><br />RandyB,<br />Just guessing, but maybe what Hypnos was getting at is the idea that if the Taliban is a Frankenstein-style monster, then the Pakistani intelligence community should be addressed as "Dr. ISI"...after all, who do you think created the Taliban ? <br />My wife and I sold comm gear to a number of companies and provincial police agencies in Pakistan from 1991 until 1997. The police that you might have seen clips of (on CNN or elswehere) beating back pro-Osama enthusiasts in Peshawar after 9/11 communicated with industrial-strength radios we sourced from Japan and supplied to a Lahore outfit that had the right connections in NWFP. <br /><br />That the Taliban was an ISI project was pretty much taken for granted by all of our commercial and military contacts. An open question might be whether the creation process was an ISI matter from start to finish or did ISI have some input from the CIA or other US intelligence agencies.<br /><br />Dr. Brin,<br /><br /><i>Obama finally had his boys pop three caps into Osama's brain pan. Whole operation cost a couple of million. That's how Democrats wage war.</i><br /><br />The enterprises undertaken by Wilson, Roosevelt, and Johnson were not done on nearly this sort of shoestring budget. Germany made the first move in the first two of these, but Vietnam...not so much.<br />I'm with you most of the time, but maybe your rhetoric was hijacked by some amanita muscaria. Replying to RandyB has that effect on me too sometimes...for some reason the old line about a mushroom being fed horseshit and kept in the dark comes to mind.<br /><br />All of y'all,<br /><br />If you don't know his name and story, please read a summary bio of General Smedley Butler (Wiki has a good page on him) and consider investing a couple hours or so in reading his 1935 long pamphlet/short book called "War is a Racket". <br /><br />Best quote from it is below:<br /><i>I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.</i><br /><br /><br />Before getting all excited and ascribing a bunch of abstract political motivations (e.g., exporting democracy) to each other's left or right "side", we should reflect on the evidence that what drove US policy for a century or more was the opportunity, after the application of some amount of military force (conveniently paid for by the US taxpayers), for corporations to go to another country and take their resources at bargain prices. Weapons manufacturers generally made their money on the front end of this process and other corporations (e.g. United Fruit) made theirs after the victorious military process gave birth to a new local market environment. Resources have not been such a big consideration recently, but an adversary to justify the production and purchase of ever-better weaponry seems to be an ongoing requirement.infanttyronenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-26300887021524646142012-04-16T18:54:33.301-07:002012-04-16T18:54:33.301-07:00A few Republicans had the right idea about Afghani...A few Republicans had the right idea about Afghanistan, at least I'm guessing Jerry Pournelle wasn't alone in that, but he isn;t running the party. Shame the GOP returns so little respect for him, given the loyalty he has for the party.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-20229018531390701112012-04-16T18:35:33.155-07:002012-04-16T18:35:33.155-07:00David, you might want to see a movie "Bug.&qu...David, you might want to see a movie "Bug." It's best to see it cold without advance knowledge. But I say that about most movies. It's not for kids, though. It's a psychological movie done by William Friedkin. It's horrendous. Later you laugh. Gulp.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-24824794830395861892012-04-16T18:15:31.831-07:002012-04-16T18:15:31.831-07:00Perhaps we need to start pushing a new Constitutio...Perhaps we need to start pushing a new Constitutional Amendment: The United States shall not declare war or a military action without having the action paid for by tax increases that exist solely for the war or military action and end once the war or military action comes to an end.<br /><br />It makes a lot of sense. It is a form of "balanced budget amendment" that the Repubs are pushing. It would be turned down flat by every single Republican. But boy I would be willing to bet that with it in place, Repubs would be far less likely to wage war on other nations.<br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-35274069268409632672012-04-16T18:04:42.993-07:002012-04-16T18:04:42.993-07:00Abso-freaking lutely, Jumper.
Shared traits amon...Abso-freaking lutely, Jumper. <br /><br />Shared traits among Islamist fanatics, some kooky far-leftists, and the entire American right.<br /><br />Only a thin veneer... the majority in most blue states... seems to care about the future anymore.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-46726574532822272372012-04-16T17:56:52.998-07:002012-04-16T17:56:52.998-07:00A comparison of Taliban and al Quaida objectives a...A comparison of Taliban and al Quaida objectives and U.S. far-right goals might be in order. There are so many parallels I can only begin.<br /><br />Subjugation of women.<br />Dominionism.<br />Severe punishments, cruel and unusual to Westerners.<br />Anarchy for bin Laden and his rich friends, theocracy for the rest.<br />Hatred of other religions.<br />Suppression of subversive art.<br />A belief in an idyllic past, free of the Enlightenment.<br />Strong gun worship.<br />etc.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-13027653686262740622012-04-16T16:55:17.229-07:002012-04-16T16:55:17.229-07:00Geez it gets worse and worse. Does somebody live ...Geez it gets worse and worse. Does somebody live near enough to him to check if he's taken some bad acid? <br /><br />Seriously. I am shifting from feeling offended to deeply concerned.<br /><br />Really bad acid, with peyote and antifreeze chaser.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-42047537937630062102012-04-16T16:48:20.504-07:002012-04-16T16:48:20.504-07:00Larry,
The term "far left" is generally...Larry,<br /><br />The term "far left" is generally used for socialists, communists, people who call themselves anarchists, etc. "Far right" is generally for neo-Nazis, some types of otherwise left-wing nationalists, sometimes the Larouchites, and other right-wing extremists.<br /><br />The far right tries to attend Tea Party events, but the Tea Party disavows them. It doesn't invite them up as speakers. To say that the mainstream GOP is far right, you'd need to find another expression to describe those extremists who have a completely different set of goals.<br /><br />The far left doesn't simply attend left-wing functions, it actually runs most of the "anti-war" demonstrations (hence the friendship with Islamists), as well as the Occupado movement, which was itself promoted by some very prominent Democrats.<br /><br />To the extent that there's going to be some extremist bleed-through in any movement, it's a far, far bigger problem for the left. I've mentioned that "anti-war" demonstration, and its links to terrorists, over and over. If you want to call the entire "anti-war" movement extremists who has nothing to do with regular liberals, then go right ahead. It's about time that somebody did.<br /><br /><br />David,<br /><br />I'm sure I'll get that one of these days. It'll be a V-8 moment.RandyBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-39369991619154775542012-04-16T16:20:42.803-07:002012-04-16T16:20:42.803-07:00That RandyB is incapable of even seeing how his st...That RandyB is incapable of even seeing how his statements were not only lies but dastardly vicious ones seems utterly pathetic to me.<br /><br />Truly insane-level shit.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-2274255163764725212012-04-16T15:48:28.582-07:002012-04-16T15:48:28.582-07:00RandyB:
The far left has pro-war Islamist friends...RandyB:<br /><i><br />The far left has pro-war Islamist friends<br /></i><br /><br />So? The far left also has pro-feminist anti-Islamicist friends. Someone on the "far left" can probably be found spouting any position you wish to criticize. But the "far left" also happens to have nothing at all to do with the policies of the current president or Senators or anyone else actually in power. The "far left" is one of President Obama's loudest critics.<br /><br />Meanwhile, the "far right" actually runs a major political party and the Supreme Court, plus numerous state governments, and are putting their policies in place as fast as they can--against the will of the voters they tricked into electing them--knowing the next election is a hard deadline.<br /><br />Point being--the "far left" has nothing to do with me or any other real liberals.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-38775583530992741392012-04-16T15:15:40.721-07:002012-04-16T15:15:40.721-07:00The far left has all sorts of friends.
But what ...The far left has all sorts of friends. <br /><br />But what you were suggesting is for some kind of influence to exist - and that's what ISI does.Hypnoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01409179274970587232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-83693320428658740802012-04-16T15:09:20.118-07:002012-04-16T15:09:20.118-07:00@RandyB -
You're missing two things:
1. Your...@RandyB - <br />You're missing two things:<br /><br />1. Your claim was nonsense. Obama <a href="http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/blackwell.asp" rel="nofollow">never advocated invading Pakistan</a> as persons of ordinary intelligence understand the term. <br /><br />2. It doesn't matter whether *I* am missing anything; the fact is that you are not arguing effectively because you are arguing nonsense. Pray continue; I can't stop you from cutting your own throat.<br /><br />Meanwhile ... when are we going to see <a href="http://xkcd.com/1043/" rel="nofollow">Contrary Tumblr?</a>rewinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14008105385364113371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-43489216809084533612012-04-16T14:50:38.970-07:002012-04-16T14:50:38.970-07:00David,
I'm not sure where you're getting ...David,<br /><br />I'm not sure where you're getting that. I don't recall criticizing President Obama's current war policy here other than to say that he isn't doing what you suggested. (I criticized the far left a lot, and the liberals for not calling them out, but that's not the same thing.) Hindsight or not, most Democrats were pretty much supportive of the war in Afghanistan while we had troops in Iraq.<br /><br />If Osama bin Laden really wanted to draw us into a quagmire in the Kush mountains, he shouldn't have told the jihadis to follow us into Iraq.<br /><br /><br />Hypnos,<br /><br /><i>"I think you might have misspelled "ISI" there.</i><br /><br />Nope. The far left has pro-war Islamist friends. I'm not aware of any with friends in the ISI.RandyBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-83860427521524629292012-04-16T14:50:00.863-07:002012-04-16T14:50:00.863-07:00> We swore we'd never do that again. But th...> We swore we'd never do that again. But then Bush did it. <br /><br /><br />Ah, Bush. <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2006/11/17/8695/bush-kissinger-vietnam/" rel="nofollow">I remember that guy.</a>Atomsmithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-19318114820587628602012-04-16T14:32:49.207-07:002012-04-16T14:32:49.207-07:00Rob, we can see how well separation is working out...Rob, we can see how well separation is working out for the Sudans. Expect total war to break out in a matter of months. <br /><br />"even while being completely unable to tell leftists to ask their Islamist friends to stop fighting"<br /><br />I think you might have misspelled "ISI" there.Hypnoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01409179274970587232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-13717454915544931252012-04-16T13:33:43.698-07:002012-04-16T13:33:43.698-07:00Randy B offered a screed of such utter bull: "...Randy B offered a screed of such utter bull: "Part Two was fought with bipartisan and international support."<br /><br />No it is called patriotism and backing your president, even when he is of the other party and giving him the benefit of the doubt, something you guys have NEVER done for Clinton or Obama. The record is perfect. Nixon and Reagan and Bush and Bush were all able to negotiate bills with democratic congresses. The opposite almost never happens. EVER.<br /><br />So, Bush Jr lied to us and then lied lied lied.... and you want to blame the naive patriots who swallowed the lies? Bullshit. "It was the liberals who'd been calling Afghanistan "the real war" -- even while being completely unable to tell leftists to ask their Islamist friends to stop fighting."<br /><br />This is heinous bullshit to a degree that even RandyB should not stoop. Every phrase, every word is a goddam pile of lying dreck<br /><br />So is this "During the 2008 campaign, then-Senator Obama had then been suggesting we should invade Pakistan."<br /><br />I'll answer AS IF Randy had replied like a logical person and patriot.<br /><br />Osama's whole and entire goal, in launching 9/11, was to draw us into a quagmire in the Kush mountains, like the one when Osama helped humble the OTHER superpower. We had to go. But Phase one surprise Osama and worked beautifully. Then Bush FELL FOR the trap and mired us in to trillion dollar land wars of attrition in Asia.<br /><br />We swore we'd never do that again. But then Bush did it. <br /><br />Hindsight? HINDSIGHT???????? Two... freaking... trillion dollars. Don't you DARE talk to us about deficits.<br /><br />==<br />Zkid... Obama finally had his boys pop three caps into Osama's brain pan. Whole operation cost a couple of million. That's how Democrats wage war.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-69587880311704559062012-04-16T13:23:15.793-07:002012-04-16T13:23:15.793-07:00Rewinn,
You're missing two things:
1) That w...Rewinn,<br /><br />You're missing two things:<br /><br />1) That was considered a tough statement at the time he said it during the campaign.<br /><br />2) President Obama ran on, and followed through, an increase of troops in Afghanistan.<br /><br />I'm not criticizing the decisions. I'm just pointing out that these were his decisions.RandyBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-69538926531812512152012-04-16T13:02:56.802-07:002012-04-16T13:02:56.802-07:00Meanwhile, Sci-ence.org has amusing commentary on ...Meanwhile, Sci-ence.org has <a href="http://sci-ence.org/nerdglasses/" rel="nofollow">amusing commentary on google glasses</a> ...<br />... followed by a <a href="http://sci-ence.org/penguins/" rel="nofollow">slick way to research penguins</a>rewinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14008105385364113371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-24385381563187854832012-04-16T12:52:08.434-07:002012-04-16T12:52:08.434-07:00"...Senator Obama had then been suggesting we...<i>"...Senator Obama had then been suggesting we should invade Pakistan.<br />..."</i><br /><br />It's nonsense like this that makes the modern "conservative" completely nonpersuasive. <br /><br />PRESIDENT Obama "invaded" Pakistan to kill bin Ladn. In a technical sense, every time a drone flies over Ruritania, we're invading it; every special ops mission in a nonconsenting country is an invasion.<br /><br />To equate that successful policy with the Bush Administration's counterproductive war policy is a waste of breath; no-one believes it. Although to be fair, the Bush Doctrine *was* extremely successful in achieving its twin aims of robbing our Treasury and dominating our domestic political process. That it did so by crippling our nation's future is a new species of treason.rewinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14008105385364113371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-21668905439057087562012-04-16T12:37:29.280-07:002012-04-16T12:37:29.280-07:00Reminds of the first season of the West Wing where...Reminds of the first season of the West Wing where fictional President Bartlet articulated one (hoped for) aspect of the Clinton doctrine.<br /><br />"Did you know that 2000 years ago, a Roman Citizen could walk across the face of the known world free of the fear of molestation. He could walk across the earth unharmed, cloaked only in the protection of the words ‘civus romanus': I am a Roman citizen. So great was the retribution of Rome universally understood as certain, should any harm befall even one of its citizens. Where was Morris' protection or anyone else on that airplane? Where was the retribution for the families? Where is the warning to the rest of the world, that Americans shall walk this earth unharmed, lest the clenched fist of the most powerful nation in all mankind comes crashing down on your house? In other words... what the hell are we doing here?... Well, our behavior has produced some crappy results, in fact I'm not sure that it hasn't induced it. I am talking about 286 American Marines in Beirut. I am talking about Somalia. I'm talking about Nairobi. He had a ten day old baby at home. We are doing nothing."akidderzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04143181814884828111noreply@blogger.com