tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post2554736789393662882..comments2024-03-19T05:35:07.296-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Phases of the American Civil WarDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-70568493083720995962019-03-07T23:50:52.379-08:002019-03-07T23:50:52.379-08:00Wow. Passionate yet courteous, informed, and artic...Wow. Passionate yet courteous, informed, and articulate discussion (from both sides) on what ails America today. To be sure, some valid and often overlooked points raised about underlying Northern motivations for going to war in 1861. Be that as it may, there is no escaping the fact that this country (and its Supreme Court) upheld as a constitutional (if not a fundamental) “right,” the ownership of fellow human beings as recently as 1865, and for decades more, supported a state’s right to deny the franchise based solely on color (and gender, for that matter). There is no way to “intellectualize” or “rationalize” a preventable evil taking place on your very doorstep. It was true in 1861 and it is no less true in 2019. History is rife with examples of last gasp “revolutions” (popular or otherwise) intent on turning back the hands of time in the hopes of returning society to some imagined era of greatness and virtue. Occasionally, these uprisings have caught the dominant culture off guard, often as a result of complacency, but the shock is enough to stir the body politic into action, <b>eventually</b> (think WWII). It is, frankly, sad to read the remarks by obviously intelligent people discussing “civil war,” “revolution,” “secession,” and the rebirth of do-nothing (“neo-Confederate”?) ideals so matter-of-factly in a 21st century context. Whether the result of exhaustion or exasperation, I see here suggestions that such things are either inevitable or at least given serious credence. Perhaps it would be best for all concerned to amicably go our separate ways, some say. As if war might have been prevented in 1861 had slavery been instead permitted to gradually decline as an institution (“if only” the North had been more reasonable and patient?). I can only hope that reasonable minds will prevail in our circumstances, that common sense will triumph. Historically, revolutions, despite the curious tendency in this country to romanticize such endeavors, end only in calamity and despair, with very rare exception. Those that suggest otherwise are fooling themselves, and moreover, appear to have learned nothing about the obscene premise of the Confederacy and its well-merited (if costly) demise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-5338668030204177492019-03-03T21:54:58.203-08:002019-03-03T21:54:58.203-08:00"Wait too long and they become comfortable wi..."Wait too long and they become comfortable with being an independent nation, and you are facing a constant insurgency."<br /><br />Is that not, in fact, what we have?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03042428246496479863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-71704368471495217022018-07-20T15:53:58.619-07:002018-07-20T15:53:58.619-07:00The original version of this posting is at
http:/...The original version of this posting is at<br /><br />http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2014/09/phases-of-american-civil-war.htmlDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-61800099379354649352018-06-27T09:57:54.696-07:002018-06-27T09:57:54.696-07:00Concerning the value of rural and rustic vs urban....Concerning the value of rural and rustic vs urban. <br /><br />Rural and rustic cannot sustain growth. With growth comes the urban. Unless the rural and rustic are going to restrict themselves to replacement population levels, the unlanded sons and daughters have no where else to go.<br /><br />snjmomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-25096913633735490022018-04-16T14:12:50.104-07:002018-04-16T14:12:50.104-07:00I have been seeing this for several years now, but...I have been seeing this for several years now, but I've never seen anyone come right out and say it or lay it clearly out before. <br /><br />Thanks Mr Brin!the tortolitas kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093845703116029946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-31421525338042515062018-01-04T10:07:59.072-08:002018-01-04T10:07:59.072-08:00If only it would stop there. Appeasing them with t...If only it would stop there. Appeasing them with their own country would put a hostile regime right on our borders.Jason Campbellhttp://www.facebook.com/ihwipnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1674906046427586792017-08-14T21:22:21.869-07:002017-08-14T21:22:21.869-07:00David Brin, I think that it can be argued or debat...David Brin, I think that it can be argued or debated that we have entered a Phase 9. Signified by the tipping point of Trump's election and gerrymandered non-majority presidency.David Doraisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-12231281712816537882017-07-03T21:52:25.623-07:002017-07-03T21:52:25.623-07:00Conflict always produces a residual condition that...Conflict always produces a residual condition that must be managed by the 'prevailing' force into something that approaches an equilibrium or stable condition. But such stability comes with a significant burden cost of constant effort. Thus we are condemned to remain in a constant state of war - if not in actual immediate physical terms, yet entirely in realistic practical terms required of ongoing interaction that places cooperation as a premium. Peace is a condition of equilibrium and stability - the most difficult balancing act the human civilization experiment has ever and always been challenged to maintain.<br /><br />Unfortunately, that is a tough act: the suite of contending parties, ideologies and economic interests guarantees that physical conflict will erupt. It inevitably becomes a matter of management - too often, crisis management - and therefore a perpetual condition of 'war', as a controlling issue. Measures crafted by 'diplomats' under the aegis of their respective national leadership, ostensibly aimed toward the coordination of disparate tribal interests of any kind must find some room to accommodate their positions in order to alleviate rising pressures that could lead uncontrollably to physical conflict. Of course, any involved party (and on a finite little planet, who isn't?) that decides they are not treated properly for whatever reason important to themselves and proceeds on the path of belligerence risks the stability of the whole.<br /><br />Human beings pride themselves on their spectacular individual intelligence. Such intelligence in healthy individuals comes about from an acute coordination between a gigantic number of neurons specialized in a great many sub-routine activities within the brain. Yet it is sobering to recognize that our social concoctions have yet to approach anything nearly as coordinated - and therefor as 'intelligent' - as that which exists in a worm. astrounithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292105178928250168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-36158754451052858802016-02-06T17:18:45.500-08:002016-02-06T17:18:45.500-08:00--
Jumper said...
Wondering the risk to Oglala aqu...--<br />Jumper said...<br />Wondering the risk to Oglala aquifer. (Agree no point to pipeline, but what exactly is this ballyhooed risk?)<br />--<br /><br />Any leak at any point that gets into the aquifer poisons the entire aquifer, and that can't be cleaned out.<br /><br />So that destroys an entire fresh water source effectively forever.<br /><br />And a leak <b>will</b> happen. We all know they'll be cheap on construction and maintenance; this is proven by past experience. Therefore, there will be spills. And it's big pipe, they'll be big spills. Also proven by experience.<br /><br />One of those in the aquifer and it's gone.<br /><br />Want to risk that?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11660190264723616685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-37691679299421977932016-02-06T17:12:54.552-08:002016-02-06T17:12:54.552-08:00--
Anonymous said...
Well done. But how do we get ...--<br />Anonymous said...<br />Well done. But how do we get past it? And if the Neo-Conferacy is less educated how does it continue to outsmart the rest of the country that dominates in business, media, education, science and technology? Why are the smart guys always reacting late and tepidly? If the states really are the laboratories, isn't the debate over? Sometimes I wonder if maybe Lincoln should have let them leave.<br />--<br /><br />Because the <b>leaders</b> of the New Confederacy aren't uneducated. They are very very wealthy feudalists who are at the top of society and aim higher. And their policymakers, the think tanks, are very very smart.<br /><br />They are dumb and very ignorant only in the average.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11660190264723616685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-71890145084280067832015-11-05T06:20:24.402-08:002015-11-05T06:20:24.402-08:00I might have argued with this assessment until I m...I might have argued with this assessment until I moved from East Texas to Chicago. Growing up in Texas we had no idea what the rest of the country looked like. I wish more people understood this perspective on the North/South divide.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-61068590462594142812015-05-31T16:57:55.818-07:002015-05-31T16:57:55.818-07:00Yes.right on.Yes.right on.robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08510382005720529790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-29126832952145797002015-05-27T23:27:14.656-07:002015-05-27T23:27:14.656-07:00Well this is all very interesting.... As a Northe...Well this is all very interesting.... As a Northerner becoming acquainted with the South on a personal basis late in life, I am fascinated by the intellectualized yet ultimately visceral hatred of anything southern, particularly Texan. <br /><br />I call it Progressives Southern Derangement Syndrome. Obama has it and if you pay attention to some of his actions during his tenure, his dislike of states that voted overwhelmingly against him are obviously engendered in his political and deliberate affronts to those States.<br /><br />It is none other than Texas that has a history, in the past because of its size and emptiness, of having it's population altered and manipulated for the sake of holding land, power and resources. When Spain possessed the Texas Region, they encouraged settlement in order to populate citizens and cement Spain's claim to the land that might be challenged at first by Great Britain and France... When Mexico gained it's independence it persisted in efforts to give away land and establish a population of citizens to hold sovereignty as well.<br /><br />Now in the era of Obama, we have a President with a multi-generational imperial plan to create a permanent Democratic, Socialistic progressive national majority by infiltrating the country, particularly the Southern states he hates, with Millions of future Latino underclass Democrat voters many who come from cultures of failed socialist agendas, arriving here to collect on the Welfare Social Contract with which we are saddled. <br /><br />Yes it's cynical plot and those who refuse to understand the illegality and immorality of the operation President Obama and his comrades at arms conveniently point to the sheer humanitarian virtues of becoming a giant sponge for illegal immigrants. Equally they refuse to accept the argument that if President Obama, and Liberal Democrats knew as assuredly as they do that these are future progressive Democrat voters, that they were instead going to become a GOP majority, the Democrats emphasis and platitudes about the virtues of humanitarianism and diversity would quickly flip toward the politics of sovereignty and economic well being for our nation's established citizens and tax payers, the need for stronger borders and full but proper assimilation.<br /><br />A welfare state without borders and requirement that new immigrants provide REAL skills and additive qualities before assimilation into a productive culture, has no chance for survival.<br /><br />Texas and other Southern States are the front line in the battle toward a totally progressive society... The progressives (actually socialists) have already won and turned California, Colorado and New Mexico. It's all part and parcel to the over-all plan.<br /><br />Power at all cost is the the true aim of progressives. Sovereignty, liberty, solvency, individualism, private property, the better half of the American experience are all expendable to the Democrat Progressive agenda of a very imperfectly described, vaguely understood, never perfected, all engrossing, never happy utopia.<br /><br />Incidentally, to those Democrats clamoring for a larger minimum wage (the insanity of increased cost without improvement)... Don't hold your breath awaiting that to happen. If the huge Latino influx continues to create workers willing to take those low wage, entry position jobs that "lazy Americans don't want" and/or selfish members of the chamber of commerce want to keep cheap and the Democrats continue to cultivate a new underclass of Quid Pro Quo voters... why would there be a need for an increased minimum wage, yet alone would there be the money?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18004951442946118074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-53091312706964950572015-03-31T15:37:27.242-07:002015-03-31T15:37:27.242-07:00Good site. Well done.Good site. Well done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-56633491649381520402014-10-23T16:37:10.416-07:002014-10-23T16:37:10.416-07:00I have long desired to kick out all the Red States...I have long desired to kick out all the Red States and let them wallow in their own theocracy, corruption and racism. As Chuck Thompson sated in his hilarious book "Better Off Without 'Em: A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession" even their football (the SEC) is corrupt to the bone. <br />But I have ran the numbers and it looks like a good chunk of the Old Confederacy can be taken strong GOTV movements and the inevitable changes in demographics. First it was Virginia and North Carolina, but soon we will see the Purpling of Georgia, Texas and Arizona. Along with these trends, there is the technological change in employment that could allow more people to telecommute to work. Imagine millions of Blue State college graduates moving to Red States for lower housing costs. With a fair amount of coordination the electorates of small population states like Wyoming could be overwhelmed with liberal voters. After electing enough senators, congressmen and governors to enact sweeping democratic reforms they can all move back to their coastal origins.<br />What will the current forces of reaction and theocracy do when they are permanently outvoted? The choice will be to change, give up or seceed.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288749464125877849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-78173314322899308552014-10-09T07:18:37.735-07:002014-10-09T07:18:37.735-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283279260623673843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-51081975655821249672014-09-25T06:34:09.969-07:002014-09-25T06:34:09.969-07:00"So Lincoln was facing an inevitable war. The..."So Lincoln was facing an inevitable war. The only issue was timing. Better to go early while the "Confederacy" was in start-up mode, with many of its citizens still loyal to the idea of a United States. Wait too long and they become comfortable with being an independent nation, and you are facing a constant insurgency."<br /><br />Grant, in his memoirs, believed that a lot of areas could have been kept by the USA if troops had been put there early. What actually happened is that they were abandoned to the Confederacy.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-3897821204076879812014-09-24T09:26:31.438-07:002014-09-24T09:26:31.438-07:00locumranch:
The problem was not that the South wa...locumranch:<br /><br />The problem was not that the South was agricultural (there was plenty of agriculture in the North) but that its agriculture was based on a single crop - cotton cultivated in large estates. Those large estates made it hard for smaller farmers to compete. It was thus that Lincoln's father had to move from Kentucky to Illinois. His opinions on large estates run on slave labor that made life hard for the small white proprietor must have been SOME influence on Lincoln as he grew up.<br /><br />There is nothing wrong with farming as a way to make a living, only that when you start production that allows to feed several people at once, you end up with surplus people. If you have any industries, those people move there. If not, they have to leave. That was what happened in Ireland. The English (those parangons of freedom) squelched all forms of activity except raising cattle, and Ireland had to export its surplus people all over the world. Indeed, the platform of the independence movement there was industrialization - which began to be carried out in earnest by Eamon de Valera...<br /><br />By the way, no one forbade the South to put up its own industries, as the South did. At the time of the Revolution the Southern states were richer, more populated, and dominant in Government. If by the start of the Civil War the Northern states were richer and more populated was not due to Northern tyranny but of the South not building a strong industrial economy. The North never forbade inmigrants from going to the South, nor forbade southerners to create their own industries. The South chose a bad economic model and paid for it.<br /><br />By the way, you could study the case of Argentina, which made the same bad bargain, they based the economy in selling meat and other foodstuff to England, and then saw the whole thing collapse when in 1930 England was not in condition to thanks to the crash... Years of political instability followed, and then Peron came and started an accelerated industrialization...<br /><br />The present government there is Peronista, and David Brin might be interested, the society there is basically diamond shaped.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-33924352131328272392014-09-22T18:14:34.389-07:002014-09-22T18:14:34.389-07:00Wondering the risk to Oglala aquifer. (Agree no po...Wondering the risk to Oglala aquifer. (Agree no point to pipeline, but what exactly is this ballyhooed risk?)Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-82846181348213317472014-09-22T12:04:07.931-07:002014-09-22T12:04:07.931-07:00American Nations by Colin Woodard (http://www.amaz...American Nations by Colin Woodard (http://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411412035&sr=8-1&keywords=american+nations) traces this rivalry back to 1590. Excellent book that explains American history better than I was ever taught it in school.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04410293002556505471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-92182820463942776962014-09-22T06:46:26.993-07:002014-09-22T06:46:26.993-07:00Anon,
"Where did you get your information abo...Anon,<br /><i>"Where did you get your information about the wages being lower? I have lived in both California and in Texas"</i><br /><br />Median income (2011):-<br /><br />California: $57,287<br />Texas: $49,392<br /><br />New York: $55,246<br />Washington: $56,835 (State)<br />Washington: $63,124 (City)<br /><br />Georgia: $46,007<br />South Carolina: $42,367<br />Alabama: $41,415<br /><br />Interesting outliers:<br /><br />Alaska: $67,825<br />Michigan: $45,981<br /><br /><a href="http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk" rel="nofollow">http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk</a><br /><br /><i>"the wages were comparable to the job/industry I was in (design)"</i><br /><br />Yeah, real typical example there, skippy.Paul451https://www.blogger.com/profile/12119086761190994938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-49043671274047687122014-09-21T18:30:02.354-07:002014-09-21T18:30:02.354-07:00"Empirically defined codicils"?
Hmm.
..."Empirically defined codicils"?<br /><br />Hmm. <br /><br />No.rewinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14008105385364113371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-52593550040232515742014-09-21T16:06:22.580-07:002014-09-21T16:06:22.580-07:00locumranch:
If Larry_H understood population dyna...locumranch:<br /><i><br />If Larry_H understood population dynamics better, he would realise that Illinois -- like Colorado, Nevada, Utah & most of the non-coastal US --is composed of highly-populated urban (Blue) centers and a diffusely rural (Red) everything else, and that a red vote against an environmental boondoggle like the Keystone XL pipeline is simply a vote against a blue urban energy agenda.<br /></i><br /><br />I'm not sure we're in disagreement here.<br /><br />I'm against the Keystone XL pipeline because it will <b>not</b> create (permanent) jobs, it will <b>not</b> increase North American energy supply (since the whole point is to make oil that can now only be sold here easier to export), and because it poses a great environmental risk to areas such as Nebraska's Oglala aquifer.<br /><br />All national right-wing media is in favor of Keystone XL, and paints opposition as hippie sentimentalism for spotted owls and the like. Yet, the presumably Republican Nebraskans themselves agree with <b>me</b> (Blue-state liberal that I am) and with the very politicians they keep sending to Washington to make policy.<br /><br />My point is that, when having to actually face the merits of the issue in their own front yard (instead of treating policy positions as mere badges of which "team" one is on), the rural conservative Republican Nebraskans implicitly acknlowlede that liberals like me have a point.<br /><br />In your view of the way the teams lay out, I should be in favor of Keystone, the TPP, and perpetual war in the Middle East, while rural conservatives should be against them. I don't see things playing out that way.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-66523338663546009802014-09-21T15:57:40.007-07:002014-09-21T15:57:40.007-07:00HI-IQ National Socialist:
It's all coming to ...HI-IQ National Socialist:<br /><i><br />It's all coming to a head now under the Obama administration, which represents the apotheosis of white Christian America's fears: urban Jews and non-whites ruling over them via an ever-expanding security apparatus, pursuing hostile policies at every turn.<br /></i><br /><br />Say what?<br /><br />I thought the riff against President Obama is that he's a secret Muslim and an enemy of Israel. Outspoken Jewish media tend to overwhelmingly support national Republicans and are at the least, shall we say "suspicious" of the motives of this presdient. To assert that President Obama and "The Jews" are united in a conspiracy against white Christians is absurd.<br /><br />It does, however, make sense if you do as Republcans generally do and assume that your antagonists think (or rather "think") exactly as you do. <b>You</b> would use power and influcence to engage in disenfranchisement and ultimately genocide of those other kinds of people you dislike. Therefore, that's what <b>they</b> must be doing as well.<br /><br /><i><br />A glance at our mainstream propaganda and institutions shows a clear agenda at work to marginalize whites (particularly men). <br /></i><br /><br />White Christians are the biggest crybabies I've ever seen. They have most of the power and influence, but that's not enough. Any hint that they live up to the American ideal of actually treating others as equals is seen as an "attack" on them.<br /><i><br />It's natural to extrapolate these trends and wonder: Where is this all headed? Is someone trying to destroy us? Who? What is to be done?<br /></i><br /><br />If one takes the "us" above not as "White Christians" but as "The democracy of the United States of America", I think it is pretty clear who is trying to destroy us. Thankfully, if we can survive another 50 years or so, most of that cohort will have shuffled off this mortal coil, or be drooling in nursing homes having their diapers changed by the lower races they despise.<br /><br />LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-6368152239093095342014-09-21T14:21:57.863-07:002014-09-21T14:21:57.863-07:00If Larry_H understood population dynamics better, ...If Larry_H understood population dynamics better, he would realise that Illinois -- like Colorado, Nevada, Utah & most of the non-coastal US --is composed of highly-populated urban (Blue) centers and a diffusely rural (Red) everything else, and that a red vote against an environmental boondoggle like the Keystone XL pipeline is simply a vote against a blue urban energy agenda.<br /><br />Be that as it may, today thousands of first-worlders march to protest climate change, condemning the very wasteful fossil-fueled economic policies that have given them suck, indicating a rejection of duplicitous alternative energy policies that claim that a society of fossil-fueled fatties can loose CO2 adipose by consuming an ever increasing amount of fossil-fuels, when everyone knows that the only way to loose weight is to accept the unpleasant necessity of caloric restriction (a Diet) even if this means a repudiation of our sacrosanct socioeconomic cycle, bringing us back to balkanisation.<br /><br />Although terribly unpleasant, Balkanisation is the quickest way out of this mess we made for ourselves, especially if we remember the following empirically-defined codicils: (1) The global economy requires seamless interdependency to function smoothly; (2) the global economy is powered mostly by fossil-fuels; (3) fossil-fuel demand dropped sharply during the recent global economic down-turn, meaning that it will drop further if subject to additional economic disruption; and (4) the number 1 predictor of All-Cause Mortality following Hurricane Katrina was 'Age greater than 71 years'.<br /><br />The adult course would be for us to 'Think of Our Children’ instead than our aging selves — Self-Martyrdom for the sake of our Racial Future — but, as evidenced by Whitey McWhite above, you & I know that WE WILL NEVER JUMP unless we are pushed.<br /><br /><br />Best.locumranchnoreply@blogger.com