tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post2496606838140047901..comments2024-03-28T22:45:34.599-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Bipartisanship? Not during the McConnell Presidency.David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-11214788257087992732019-01-19T22:51:53.726-08:002019-01-19T22:51:53.726-08:00\\I'm a big fan of Lem's cryptochemocracy ...\\I'm a big fan of Lem's cryptochemocracy & hospital of transfiguration.<br /><br />Locum, you need chemical interventions in your brain yourself.<br />Treat yourself with marihuana at least. %)<br /><br />You just showed here what is wrong with you -- you are bona fide sociopat. %)))porohobotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-58386221697975873482019-01-19T14:08:26.334-08:002019-01-19T14:08:26.334-08:00Good to know.Good to know.Steve S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03594285898860966084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-21198167047413179032019-01-19T10:19:19.107-08:002019-01-19T10:19:19.107-08:00onward
onward
onward<br />onward<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-82838196852053796472019-01-19T10:12:12.566-08:002019-01-19T10:12:12.566-08:00Out of his desire to turn fallible humanity in per...<br />Out of his desire to turn fallible humanity in perfect mechanical 'transhumans', I think that David has somehow confused Asimov's servile, obedient & self-sacrificing 'robota' (slaves; forced laborers) with Jack Williamson's oppressively do-gooding, patriarchal & meddlesome humanoids.<br /><br />A few more things about Asimov:<br /><br />(1) He was a nuclear power enthusiast & apologist, infamous for arguing that Three Mile Island & Chernobyl style nuclear accidents were simply the price humanity has to pay for mastering atomic power, an argument that relates directly to his 'Radioactive Earth' future histories;<br /><br />(2) He specifically states that Robots are BANNED on population-dense worlds like Earth -- in both 'Caves of Steel' and 'Naked Sun', to be precise -- because of fears of human demographic replacement; and <br /><br />(3) <b>His characters were most certainly 'flawed', mostly as a plot device to allow his protagonists to overcome their limitations, but he NEVER ever argues that humans would be BETTER if they were more perfect, mechanical or slavishly 'robotic'.</b> I credit Sturgeon's 'More than Human' for starting the whole modern transhumanism trend, btw.<br /><br />Why don't we discuss Stanislaw Lem more at Pohorobota's slavic suggestion as his culture provides the etymologic & definitional source of both of the terms 'robot' and 'slave'?<br /><br />I'm a big fan of Lem's cryptochemocracy & hospital of transfiguration.<br /><br />Bestlocumranchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06812045410916208141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-39233862396836915862019-01-19T09:52:40.781-08:002019-01-19T09:52:40.781-08:00“\\(3) his rather humanistic tales never ever impl...“\\(3) his rather humanistic tales never ever implied that humanity was 'ill', 'defective' or 'broken' in any way.<br />“<br /><br />Um… the Caves of Steel. The Naked Sun. The Currents of Space. Pebble in the Sky. Foundation’s Edge.<br /><br />Sometimes he strings sentences together better and I attribute that to vitamins. But he always says stuff that just isn’t remotely related to true.<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-90703943594737293152019-01-19T07:10:21.843-08:002019-01-19T07:10:21.843-08:00I watching just now on TV.
It's so called &qu...I watching just now on TV.<br /><br />It's so called "new media" -- video blog.<br />Which looks like good counter-measure to full blown information war of RFia against us in Ukraine.<br /><br />And that thought came to me.<br />Why?<br />That could be good thing for you too -- as counter-measure in your "civil war"...<br />to spread ideals of fact-based thinking.<br /><br />And more so, as they say that Millenials and Zero Geners...<br />they not like us... they do not like to read, yet more to wright texts.<br />But like video streams.porohobonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-39496409539967628272019-01-19T06:24:26.637-08:002019-01-19T06:24:26.637-08:00It was totally unintentional. Just by random brows...It was totally unintentional. Just by random browsing. How could I do that, if I'd like to find counter-arguments in his own word... and found that in the _first_ random link clicked???<br /><br />I encontered Asimov's story "That Thou Art Mindful of Him"(1974)...<br /><br />exactly about THAT question.<br /><br />Plot is simple. U.S.Robotics Corp. exist 200 (two handred years)<br />and their product -- robots, as androids as mere positronic minds... all ruled by 3 laws<br />are more then successfull... but still, only in spheras too complex or too harmfull for humans.<br /><br />But NOT on the general market. People DO NOT like to see em like their peers.porohobotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-31412675444379778902019-01-19T04:49:12.019-08:002019-01-19T04:49:12.019-08:00Elijah and Daneel for ever.💔Elijah and Daneel for ever.💔more weightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-9862953802887776792019-01-19T03:34:05.346-08:002019-01-19T03:34:05.346-08:00@Larry Hart
Existence plays in a very different u...@Larry Hart<br /><br />Existence plays in a very different universe than the Uplift novels. While you can certainly have uplift of other species in Existence, I hope Dr. Brin won't try to use it to fit the book and series together. <br /><br />I didn't need the early uplift in Existence. A nice side story, but in a long book with many side stories, some of which (like the autism one) have more to do with the central theme than this one, I could have done without. Twomindshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03406691129776855720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-89427852959847005672019-01-19T03:04:16.813-08:002019-01-19T03:04:16.813-08:00Richard09:
porohobot said...
\\As Dr Brin points ...Richard09:<br /><i><br />porohobot said...<br />\\As Dr Brin points out, the most notable question is "Why are robots missing from the Foundation stories?". For me, that's like asking why Sherlock Holmes mysteries, which take place in 1880s and 1890s London just as Dracula does, have no mention of vampires.<br /><br />Check out The Holmes-Dracula File, by Fred Saberhagen. His Dracula books are great fun (mostly).<br /></i><br /><br />That was actually me that porohobot was quoting above. <br /><br />And I have read Saberhagen's Dracula books, including the one with Holmes. And yes, they are very entertaining.<br /><br />But that's what I mean by "fanfic", or what D.C. Comics would call an "imaginary story". THe existence of <i>The Holmes-Dracula File</i> doesn't force all of the other Holmes stories (or Bram Stoker's novel, for that matter) to be consistent with it.<br /><br />I'd have been much happier if Asimov did one stand-alone novel that posited the connection between the robot stories and <i>Foundation</i>, and then left it alone, kinda the way one of our host's novels (limited spoiler) suggests the possible beginnings of the Uplift universe in our lifetime.<br />Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-20065880096968432532019-01-19T02:11:46.803-08:002019-01-19T02:11:46.803-08:00There THREE forces that govern the World: Good, Ev...There THREE forces that govern the World: Good, Evil... and Ignorance. %)<br /><br />And guess which one are most powerful of them? %Pporohobotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-17531088259822343332019-01-19T01:43:46.051-08:002019-01-19T01:43:46.051-08:00Larry Hart
...individual robots engaging in draco...Larry Hart<br /><br /><i>...individual robots engaging in draconian behind-the-scenes control over all of human history in ways that (to me) don't feel like they belong to the same R Daneel Olivaw I got to know in the earlier books.</i><br /><br />R. Daneel was built with both the inability to let a human suffer by inaction, and enough intelligence to see that humans often suffer unnecessarily and are even at risk of extinction. What else <b>could</b> he do?more weightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-32680645561984074492019-01-19T00:09:36.347-08:002019-01-19T00:09:36.347-08:00... don't get .... is missing from above post ...... don't get .... is missing from above post after ')' - edit function would be nice.reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09488435543492412991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-17485589105295620422019-01-18T23:41:37.186-08:002019-01-18T23:41:37.186-08:00I sort of wonder, as a foreigner, that more Americ...I sort of wonder, as a foreigner, that more Americans (including our host) that America's beloved Constitution is a lot of the problem. With a less absurd system there would be no McConnel and no Trump.reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09488435543492412991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-40655496723279726582019-01-18T23:04:28.328-08:002019-01-18T23:04:28.328-08:00>> locumranch said...
\\(3) his rather human...>> locumranch said...<br />\\(3) his rather humanistic tales never ever implied that humanity was 'ill', 'defective' or 'broken' in any way.<br /><br />It's strange to support locum but.<br /><br />Yeap. That is the point.<br /><br />Only. I already read about it, somewhere.<br />Ouh-Yes, Lem was writing about it.<br /><br />In "Contemplator of Genesis Happy"(Google translation %)),<br />or yet more graphically depicted in "Altruizine, or A True Account of How Bonhomius the Hermetic Hermit Tried to Bring About Universal Happiness, and What Came of It".<br /><br /><br />\\Gag! The 'libertarian like a bank robber' in me just threw up a little in his own mouth when he re-read the foul elitist & patriarchal opinions expressed by our 'libertarian like a bank teller' & self-appointed guardian.<br /><br />You are TOO haste. As always.<br />Who Asimov mean under his "robots"? Members of foundations, etc?<br />Who, if not Them Who Know Better? Educated, Enlightened, Entitled with all greatest traits? %)<br /><br />But... it's ce la ve.<br /><br />And it is TOO what Lem was writing about. %P<br /><br />All other your "thoughts" here is as ever. Foul-mouthing. Plain rubbish. %))))porohobotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-65489115805399840812019-01-18T22:26:21.625-08:002019-01-18T22:26:21.625-08:00>> David Brin said...
\\If you read FOUNDATI...>> David Brin said...<br />\\If you read FOUNDATION’S TRIUMPH you will get your answer.<br /><br />The best pleasure... is in postponing a pleasure. ;)porohobotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-51269511726784134702019-01-18T21:21:23.591-08:002019-01-18T21:21:23.591-08:00Meet the Economist Behind the One Percent’s Stealt...<a href="https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/meet-the-economist-behind-the-one-percents-stealth-takeover-of-america" rel="nofollow">Meet the Economist Behind the One Percent’s Stealth Takeover of America</a><br /><br />A chilling overview of the career of James Buchanan, the intellectual godfather of the Kochs brothers and their long project to alter our political system into... well, something John Calhoun would approve of. Quoting from the article:<br /><br /><i>Calhoun was an intellectual and political powerhouse in the South from the 1820s until his death in 1850, expending his formidable energy to defend slavery. Calhoun, called the “Marx of the Master Class” by historian Richard Hofstadter, saw himself and his fellow southern oligarchs as victims of the majority. Therefore, as MacLean explains, he sought to create “constitutional gadgets” to constrict the operations of government.</i><br /><br /><i>Economists Tyler Cowen and Alexander Tabarrok, both of George Mason University, have noted the two men’s affinities, heralding Calhoun “a precursor of modern public choice theory” who “anticipates” Buchanan’s thinking. MacLean observes that both focused on how democracy constrains property owners and aimed for ways to restrict the latitude of voters. She argues that unlike even the most property-friendly founders Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, Buchanan wanted a private governing elite of corporate power that was wholly released from public accountability.</i><br /><br /><i>Suppressing voting, changing legislative processes so that a normal majority could no longer prevail, sowing public distrust of government institutions— all these were tactics toward the goal. But the Holy Grail was the Constitution: alter it and you could increase and secure the power of the wealthy in a way that no politician could ever challenge.</i><br /><br />And with backing from the Kochs and other oligarchic clans, the Virginia school has nearly succeeded, mostly without the media noticing or warning the public, as intended.TCBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08153506222271955110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-9652272883119701162019-01-18T19:00:23.588-08:002019-01-18T19:00:23.588-08:00porohobot said...
\\As Dr Brin points out, the mos...porohobot said...<br />\\As Dr Brin points out, the most notable question is "Why are robots missing from the Foundation stories?". For me, that's like asking why Sherlock Holmes mysteries, which take place in 1880s and 1890s London just as Dracula does, have no mention of vampires.<br /><br />Check out The Holmes-Dracula File, by Fred Saberhagen. His Dracula books are great fun (mostly).Richard09https://www.blogger.com/profile/08729845998376524587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-70126506518968047922019-01-18T18:12:00.658-08:002019-01-18T18:12:00.658-08:00Porohobot:
Thanks for the suggestion of antivirus ...Porohobot:<br />Thanks for the suggestion of antivirus scanners. Regarding the issue of Google satellite imagery; I certainly refer to the images obtained in Google Earth; Then, when viewing the images, the names appear:<br /><br />©2018Google<br />image©2019CNES/Airbus<br />image©2019DigitalGlobe<br /><br />Maybe all Google images have creative commons licenses. But in reality, I do not know.<br />And I wonder if the images that are published by the Russian army are of free use, because the images provided by the American army if they are of free use.<br /><br />Winter7<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-76858155699911807652019-01-18T17:48:23.194-08:002019-01-18T17:48:23.194-08:00Our host crafts an artful & admirable simile.
...<br />Our host crafts an artful & admirable simile.<br /><br />I may very well be "a libertarian like a bank robber is a customer", much in the same way our host is 'a libertarian like a bank teller is a customer', the problem being that the average citizen is like the bank customer who is so beset by bank fees, surcharges, penalties & restrictions that he can no longer tell the difference between the equally confiscatory robber & teller.<br /><br />I take issue with Larry & David's take on Asimov's Foundation because (1) Asimov was a chemist rather than 'an engineer' so his tales are more reflective of chemical equilibria rather than mechanical structures, (2) his Zeroth Law was a legalistic nightmare that failed to either define 'humanity' or resolve anything plot-wise, and (3) his rather humanistic tales never ever implied that humanity was 'ill', 'defective' or 'broken' in any way.<br /><br />Quite the opposite: <b>Asimov admired humanity despite -- and, perhaps, because of -- all our flaws.</b><br /><br />It was only after Asimov's death that certain 'transhumanists' argued that humans were somehow 'ill' or 'imperfect' machines who needed to be lobotomised, cured, converted into or dominated by flawless robotic perfection. <br /><br />And, frankly speaking, I found David's comments a little too reminiscent of certain racist historical 'Protocols' when he made the rather undemocratic suggestion that Humans-in-General (1) were 'innumerable-cheap-expendable and ignorant and powerless' dupes who (2) were to be rightfully dominated by a 'powerful and secretly manipulative ruling caste of (servile) court eunuchs'.<br /><br />Gag! The 'libertarian like a bank robber' in me just threw up a little in his own mouth when he re-read the foul elitist & patriarchal opinions expressed by our 'libertarian like a bank teller' & self-appointed guardian.<br /><br />Heads will roll because unrepentant elitists like May, Merkel, Macron & certain US politicians have reached the same conclusion as our fine host, having concluded the human populace-in-general is too expendable, too ignorant & too deplorable to be trusted with democracy.<br /><br />Heads will roll, most definitely.<br /><br /><br />Bestlocumranchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06812045410916208141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-77358709806911913592019-01-18T15:56:45.709-08:002019-01-18T15:56:45.709-08:00@Smurphs
End of Eternity was written quite early,...@Smurphs<br /><br />End of Eternity was written quite early, 1955. If Asimov put hints in it to his Galactic books (Foundation Trilogy), and a radioactive Earth, he must have played with the idea of creating an all-encompassing Universe for his stories already back then. So I think it was something he did for more than the money, he must have wanted it for himself too.<br /><br />I agree with Larry Hart, it wrings.<br /><br /><br />Twomindshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03406691129776855720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-39258515551778680502019-01-18T13:35:35.985-08:002019-01-18T13:35:35.985-08:00
Porohobot: //But if answer is. There was, and is,...<br />Porohobot: //But if answer is. There was, and is, some long lasting organization.<br />Be it postal service, closed community of nerds or religious fanatics... or robots. <br /><br /><br />If you read FOUNDATION’S TRIUMPH you will get your answer.<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-44548910772905179592019-01-18T13:29:19.706-08:002019-01-18T13:29:19.706-08:00Smurfs to Dr Brin:
Was it you who added in the re...Smurfs to Dr Brin:<br /><i><br />Was it you who added in the retcon to "End of Eternity"?<br /></i><br /><br />No, or certainly not <b>only</b> him.<br /><br />That plot point was alluded to toward the end of the book <i>Foundation's Edge</i>. That was the first book in which Asimov returned to his 1950s "universes" in three decades.Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-23983732095255069262019-01-18T13:09:20.502-08:002019-01-18T13:09:20.502-08:00BTW, the one thing this thread have taught me, I h...BTW, the one thing this thread have taught me, I have some re-reading to do!<br /><br />Looking forward to it, if I can find the time.<br />Smurphsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-31916669483813834162019-01-18T13:05:49.129-08:002019-01-18T13:05:49.129-08:00Dr Brin said:
"In FOUNDATION'S TRIUMPH I...<br />Dr Brin said:<br /><br /><i>"In FOUNDATION'S TRIUMPH I work out the logic, weaving in almost all previous Asimov novels, even the minor ones. "</i><br /><br />It's been (quickly Googles) 20 years since I read FT. Longer since I read Asimov's sequel / prequels.<br /><br />Was it you who added in the retcon to "End of Eternity"?Smurphsnoreply@blogger.com