tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post112533981106961532..comments2024-03-28T23:20:56.388-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Hypocrisy Dump: A Toxic Landfill of DoublespeakDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125509646806714912005-08-31T10:34:00.000-07:002005-08-31T10:34:00.000-07:00Interesting point, bringing up what "we" (USA) did...Interesting point, bringing up what "we" (USA) did to the Iraqis in 1991--yes, we did abandon those guys at the behest of the Arab League (effectively, the Sauds). It was THEY who said that Saddam was an internal Arab matter and that THEY would take care of it. Bush The First (being the type of "internationalist" that he was) took the Arab League's word for it. Well, so much for that.<BR/><BR/>What I would like to point out is that it is so, so, SO easy to blame ourselves for anything and everything. After all, we know our own strengths and weaknesses very well. Blaming ourselves first also works when you don't know a lot of what is really going on behind the scenes. Besides, blaming ourselves is downright fashionable! I would like to know however, whatever happened to placing blame where the responsibilities actually lie?<BR/><BR/>Thanks, House of Saud, for leaving us holding the flaming bag of dog doo you let burn for years.<BR/><BR/>It reminds be of the French's flaming bag of dog doo in Indochina following WWII...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125466671035304742005-08-30T22:37:00.000-07:002005-08-30T22:37:00.000-07:00Hm...I think that a diamond actually is stable, in...Hm...I think that a diamond actually is stable, in the long term. Life was a pyramid for a while, but now plankton are the greatest mass of living creature, and I'd put them somewhere between us and archaea as far as complexity. The total mass of viri/phages is also pretty small, and the mass our biosphere has invested in prions is probably negligible.<BR/><BR/>Every whale will eventually go toward <A HREF="http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Publications/ZooGoer/2005/2/whaleworms.cfm" REL="nofollow">tube worms</A>.<BR/><BR/>Just as cyanobacteria eventually lost their numerical advantage to the amazing talents of arthropods, the growth rate of competitive industries eventually outstrips any interest from rents. Don't the Saudis always say "my grandson will ride a camel?"Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16755460714090772432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125455362465293022005-08-30T19:29:00.000-07:002005-08-30T19:29:00.000-07:00Quoth DB:As for defending the borders... Clinton d...Quoth DB:<BR/><I>As for defending the borders... Clinton doubled the border patrol as his FIRST act in office. W’s first? To cripple it. Nuff said.</I><BR/><BR/>Being a bit remote from this, being an observer in more innocent times, and being a bit of a geek, the first of W's acts that I noted was the US Government's withdrawal from the anti-trust action against Microsoft.<BR/><BR/>(Microsoft is now the proud owner of, among other things, patent #6896804. Filed in June, 2001, it allows for the conversion between data objects and XML, an open standard. This covers any software utility that can read/write an XML file. Whose data was that again?)<BR/><BR/>Just another straw...Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125452010444285362005-08-30T18:33:00.000-07:002005-08-30T18:33:00.000-07:00People did NOT panic and vastly more economic harm...<I>People did NOT panic and vastly more economic harm has been done by relentlessly slowing us all at airports. By the way, the economy isn’t in a depression. But it sucks.</I><BR/><BR/>Following the script...<BR/><BR/>People may be bigger than their allotted roles, but not so governments. A similar pattern is emerging following the London bombings (although I don't think Blair is reacting quite as reflexively as Bush: maybe he's read TS?:-). <BR/><BR/>BTW. Has anyone ever noticed how a depressed economy works to keep the common herd in line? <BR/><BR/><I>Enough for now... Pick your favorite items. Pass em on.</I><BR/><BR/>...by word, <B>and</B> by blog.Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125442973776834632005-08-30T16:02:00.000-07:002005-08-30T16:02:00.000-07:00David,Yes, yes, Clinton was Our Hero. (And he was ...David,<BR/><BR/>Yes, yes, Clinton was Our Hero. (And he was a remarkably skilled pol, wasn't he?)<BR/><BR/>My observation about the lefty websites was likely a bit skewed; I know you're out to CITOKATE, and the factions in power are not the ones doing it...<BR/><BR/>(And I think as well about the indignation those on the Left feel about the violation of this or that international law, all the while excusing what those on the Right were indignant about, regarding Clinton's (and his administration's) own indiscretions. Yeah, I know, no indictments, etc, but you know as well as I that that's not the currency of those at the top of power)<BR/><BR/>But yeah, the last couple of posts seemed to hit the kool-aid just a touch, even though you're probably not gonna find criticisms from the righty ones... <BR/><BR/>As it stands, I found only one: I see someone named Mark Tapscott calling for conservatives to "dump the GOP" because of its abandonment of the "limited government" idea, among others: <BR/><BR/>http://www.townhall.com/columnists/marktapscott/mt20050828.shtml<BR/><BR/><I>Incredibly, after a decade of GOP control, the federal government is bigger, more powerful, costs more and is less accountable than it was when the Democrats were thrown out by voters in 1994 after four decades of mostly uncontested rule.<BR/><BR/>How would an intervention work on the political scene? I don’t have that answer. Some people suggest withholding campaign contributions. Others predict conservatives will stay at home in droves in the 2006 elections, possibly handing the Democrats a bunch of new seats in Congress and revived hopes of taking back the White House in 2008.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps such a turn of events would be the needed jolt, but it seems just as likely, given recent history, that only the names and party affiliations of those doing damage in Congress would change. </I><BR/><BR/>It leaves me with another thought: Perhaps the sort of hypocrisy you've cited is universal; it's easier for people not in the center of something, as the Republicans were in the Balkan efforts, to see things which those *in* power can't or won't see about expeditionary adventures?Rob Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13115249244056328076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125433001431730322005-08-30T13:16:00.000-07:002005-08-30T13:16:00.000-07:00I would just like to say that my example was off t...I would just like to say that my example was off the top of my head, and not based on 'real historical facts' but rather a half remembered history.<BR/><BR/>I still think it's a neat idea, though.<BR/><BR/>Truth is, though, the top percent of earners will find a way to avoid paying thier share of taxes (income or other). Giving them one that is easy and encourages donation/investment would be a improvement over the current system, which seems to consist of eliminating the tax on the top percent entirely so that there is even less donation and investment going on.<BR/><BR/>David, I have a saying I use occasionally... "Class Warfare is what happens when the lower classes starts shooting BACK." I think we're going to see the lower classes trying to defend themselves vs. class warfare at the ballot box in the near future.<BR/><BR/>HawkerHurricaneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125428527114696842005-08-30T12:02:00.000-07:002005-08-30T12:02:00.000-07:00Hawker was right on in talking about the importanc...Hawker was right on in talking about the importance of “leaky” high tax rates. The right wing has gone to extreme lengths to attack the Inheritance Tax, for example. But the only reform it really needed what the democrats offered... a ten-times multiplication of the floor exemption to safeguard family businesses & farms.<BR/><BR/>What the I.T. did was force rich people to plan ahead and set up foundations to thwart it. Very few actually paid any IT. In most cases, they WERE compelled to plan some kind of charitable use for a large chunk of their lifelong gains... and only propertarian cultists would call that recycling outcome a bad thing. <BR/><BR/>Emphasis: a man who got rich by providing competitive goods or services <I>deserves</I> to get rich! Moreover, he deserves to have the privilege of choosing <I>which</I> cool socially beneficial investment will be named after him, when he’s gone. The IT is a persuasion tool to encourage creative competitors to continue that competitive creativity in one last effort that will benefit all... including their children who (though they will now only inherit millions) will get to live in a better world.<BR/><BR/>And government’s say in HOW the investment will be beneficial is minimized, a joy to libertarians... or it should be.<BR/><BR/>The point is that the social diamond <I>is</I> inherently unstable. The rich will conspire (human nature) to ensure that there kids become spoiled dukes. In Europe, most of the rich inherited while we are proud that most of our rich earned their way to the top. But we are becoming more feudal every year. Do you want Paris Hilton to be our model? Or Steve Jobs?<BR/><BR/>Rik, I like Jerry Pournells much more than most people who despise his politics. I think he’s been a useful man all his life. And utterly clueless. We need a Caesar like we need a sulfuric acid enema. What we need is confidence in ourselves. The anti-modernist turn is entirely emotional. It is not based upon any REASON for failure of confidence at all. We the people accomplished more, during the last five decades of Pournelle’s grouchiness, than all of the Caesars in history ever dreamed of accomplishing.<BR/><BR/>Nicole, the 1st Gulf War went into hiatus because the Sauds ordered it halted. That is pure historical fact. We asked the people of Basra to rebel, promising we were “on our way!” Then left them to be slaughtered and oppressed for 12 years. W does not want us remembering this, though it is the worst stain on our honor in a hundred years, and it explains why we got no “flowers and kisses” (Rummy’s prediction) when we finally returned.<BR/><BR/>And you are wrong to dismiss comparisons of the Balkans and Iraq! I can prove it. Because the SAME planners and the same doctrines were behind our successful campaign in Afghanistan, which is VERY comparable to Iraq. Afgh is a vastly more difficult place, where every invader since Alexander was humbled and Osama felt sure he could cripple yet <I>another</I> superpower. <BR/><BR/>That did not happen because Clinton-Clarke’s war plan was already in place, using proved and efficient doctrines, planned by pros, with minimal politician interference. All W had time to do was shout “Go!” And the pros did fantastic work. In Afgh, the bane of empires, we are doing BETTER than in Iraq. Our wealth is not squandered. Morale is high. Our alliances strengthened after Afgh. It ain’t perfect, but the fact that we aren’t yet howling with regret is a miracle in itself.<BR/><BR/>And Afgh was run in the same way, by the same officer corps that did the Balkans. So please don’t dismiss this as apples/oranges. Here’s the real difference. One groups waged Pax Americana intervention like adults. The other is waging it like morons.<BR/><BR/>Nicole, technological advance feeds productivity. That is proved repeatedly. So 90% of the internet traffic is porn and videos? So? The 5% that’s creative is vast. And we have ensured that it is <I>slowed down</I> in the US. As if an enemy had sabotaged us.<BR/><BR/>Nicole, recover from WHAT 9/11 damage? We needed a five year recovery... from what!? The exaggeration of that day infuriates me! So a couple of buildings went down! A couple of billion dollars. Casualties were astonishingly low and New York was back up & running in no time. People did NOT panic and vastly more economic harm has been done by relentlessly slowing us all at airports. By the way, the economy isn’t in a depression. But it sucks.<BR/><BR/>sayeth Rob Perkins “Re taxes, the apparent theory is that it's possible to run a deficit and not have it hurt if the deficit is some level below the growth rate of the economy. I'm fuzzy on this but I think it's if the growth rate is x%, then you choose to run a deficit somewhat less than x% of your total budget.<BR/><BR/>This is Mike Mandel’s argument and he is perfectly right. Clinton did great work implementing an obsolete notion. He was very responsible cutting the deficit past zero... but should then have gone back into the red by exactly the amount that he would boost scientific and technological research. And it should have been a BIG modernist confident boost, attracting millions of young people back into engineering and science.<BR/><BR/>“I think it's better if those two branches fight with one another more than if they cooperate on some agenda. “<BR/><BR/>I don’t agree. The purpose of govt is to govern. Still, the lack of checks and balances right now is appalling. <BR/><BR/>“However, DB, I think you're hitting the lefty partisan websites a bit too hard. Might want to balance all that a bit with a hit of the right. If you can stand it. If they aren't just cheerleading. (O'Reilly isn't, and he's not really on the right, near as I can tell; but he's had a stick up his sensitive places about illegal immigration for years”<BR/><BR/>Um.... it’s all perspective. Does anybody else think I am hitting the left harder than the right? I am stunned! I make it very clear that the worst the the left does is to feed Rove’s propaganda machine.<BR/><BR/>As for defending the borders... Clinton doubled the border patrol as his FIRST act in office. W’s first? To cripple it. Nuff said.<BR/><BR/>Sayeth Ben Tilly “For Nicole Tedesco: with what we've spent on the Iraq war we could have maintained the existing blockade for several decades, with a far lighter cost to American lives and without creating the current cesspool that we have there.”<BR/><BR/>I don’t agree. I am a raving Pax Americana booster... if it is done by grownups. We OWED it to the people of Iraq to rescue them, after what we did to them in 91! I just think almost any other plan would have been better than this one designed by loonies and morons.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125426275827131692005-08-30T11:24:00.000-07:002005-08-30T11:24:00.000-07:00Did you notice "U.S. poverty rate rises to 12.7 pe...Did you notice<A HREF="http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050830/us_nm/economy_poverty_dc_1" REL="nofollow"> "U.S. poverty rate rises to 12.7 percent in 2004" </A>?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125421782725452912005-08-30T10:09:00.000-07:002005-08-30T10:09:00.000-07:00For Nicole Tedesco: with what we've spent on the I...For Nicole Tedesco: with what we've spent on the Iraq war we could have maintained the existing blockade for several decades, with a far lighter cost to American lives and without creating the current cesspool that we have there.<BR/><BR/>And for HawkerHurricane, you're thinking of the "flying nun" exemption. It didn't work exactly like you describe. The way that it worked is that if you donated more than your annual income to charity in a given year, you didn't have to pay taxes. It was passed for the sake of a rich nun who had a trust fund and donated all of her earnings from it to the Church. (Hence the name "flying nun".)<BR/><BR/>Now the exemption seems pretty innocuous. But the problem was that a lot of people with old money had done things like buy art. The art had appreciated in value, so by giving up some art to a museum, they could easily donate more than their annual income. As lots of rich people began doing this, fine art became scarcer, causing its value to go up even more. (If you wanted to be really devious about it, you could buy one item by a famous artist at a high price, then donate 2 to charity and appraise them at the price that you bought the first one for...)<BR/><BR/>Not everyone played the game with artwork, there were various ways to play it. The end result is that a lot of people who should have paid taxes, didn't. And a lot of charitable organizations got lots of donations.<BR/><BR/>In case you ever wondered how museums like the Met got the incredibly expensive art that they display, well now you know.Ben Tillyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04335648152419715383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125421553329135612005-08-30T10:05:00.000-07:002005-08-30T10:05:00.000-07:00And before anyone picks on me for actually listeni...And before anyone picks on me for actually listening to O'Reilly, I've been of the opinion for *years* that the best course of action to take with that Mexican border...<BR/><BR/>is, for economic reasons, to drop it altogether. They wanna come, let 'em come. While it's true that there is a significant number of illegal immigrants who traffic in the very illegal drug trade, on the balance what *I've* seen of the immigrants I know is that they're honest, hardworking folk. <BR/><BR/>Of course this would have to be balanced with some kind of requirement to Mexico that they end a culture of corruption much worse than ours in the U.S., but I can't see why doing so isn't possible. <BR/><BR/>And speaking of possibilities, it makes me wonder what John McCain would do, if we pulled out the Big Chair for him.Rob Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13115249244056328076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125421152394171042005-08-30T09:59:00.000-07:002005-08-30T09:59:00.000-07:00Re taxes, the apparant theory is that it's possibl...Re taxes, the apparant theory is that it's possible to run a deficit and not have it hurt if the deficit is some level below the growth rate of the economy. I'm fuzzy on this but I think it's if the growth rate is x%, then you choose to run a deficit somewhat less than x% of your total budget.<BR/><BR/>Not that that doesn't sound like complete hooey to a cash accounting guy like me, but there you are, straight from the EIB. ;-)<BR/><BR/>Not that ol' Limbaugh wasn't castigating the Dems for running deficits before his guy was in power, but there you are again! :-)<BR/><BR/>What I don't get *at all* is how someone can suppose to cut taxes to grow the economy and still maintain all the spending the government does. Especially that appalling increase in discretionary spending. Is any of that even related to defense efforts? <BR/><BR/>I think I've been led to agree that we don't have the right fiscal managers in the Congress, and we don't have a President willing to keep them in check. <BR/><BR/>I think it's better if those two branches fight with one another more than if they cooperate on some agenda. <BR/><BR/>However, DB, I think you're hitting the lefty partisan websites a bit too hard. Might want to balance all that a bit with a hit of the right. If you can stand it. If they aren't just cheerleading. (O'Reilly isn't, and he's not really on the right, near as I can tell; but he's had a stick up his sensitive places about illegal immigration for years, and he's using his pulpit to hammer on that...)Rob Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13115249244056328076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125420206800357762005-08-30T09:43:00.000-07:002005-08-30T09:43:00.000-07:00On taxes: David, you may have a point, but I also ...On taxes: David, you may have a point, but I also suspect that the loosy-goosy tax structure we have now may help make the economy more robust than the structures of old, which may help to explain why we recovered as well as we did from 9/11 and why our economy is doing as well as it is during war time.<BR/><BR/>I may be wrong here, and quite wrong, since I haven't really researched my position and stitched together a cohesive argument as of yet. Then again, relative to war time deficits, a lot may be explainable in historical terms when comparing the _relative deficits_ of countries during World War times and seeing how our delayed entries into each provided the US with the lowest relative deficit and hence a positive net worth overall. Then again, I just may crazy...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125419651090799912005-08-30T09:34:00.000-07:002005-08-30T09:34:00.000-07:00On cochlear implants: until we become effective at...On cochlear implants: until we become effective at situ brain re-engineering, corrective surgery for failed senses has less and less success as the patient ages, given brain structure maturation rates and all. It is most useful to the patient to provide missing senses while the brain can assimilate the new information in a meaningful way. For instance in a blind adult the occipital lobe of the brain, which primarily processes visual information in normal adults, may be primarily stimulated by the sense of TOUCH in some blind patients. "Re-wiring" the occipital lobe to efficiently and effectively respond to new visual input is at this time in history out of our reach. Hence the parents of a born-deaf child have an important decision to make UNDER TIME-PRESSURE as to whether or not they seek corrective surgery for their young child (should the child be in a position to receive known benefit from said surgery).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125418831301419442005-08-30T09:20:00.000-07:002005-08-30T09:20:00.000-07:00On our lagging behind on broadband connectivity pe...On our lagging behind on broadband connectivity per capita densities: How is that related to innovation rate? How will providing more people with access to broadband porn, more mediocre music streams, or Times/Fox biased news going to help innovation rates? As a software systems architect, let me tell you that providing people with a bigger data pipeline does not do much to increase innovation. In fact, until proved wrong, I'm currently sticking to the hypothesis that necessity has been the Mother Of Invention more often than "having it easy" ever has (or more often than Frank Zappa and his band ever were ;-) )Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125418127433607582005-08-30T09:08:00.000-07:002005-08-30T09:08:00.000-07:00[rant]First, on the war: I won't get into it much,...[rant]<BR/>First, on the war: I won't get into it much, but Golly, Jee-Willikers! I thought this site was about the amelioration of mystical thinking--get over the non-falsifiable mystical ramblings of "Saud" conspiracies as The Reason for the war. Keep in mind that THE "FIRST" GULF NEVER ENDED; all we had was a cease fire. We were trying to maintain the cease fire with sanctions which, given Saddam's reaction to it, was killing scores by the day AND WE WERE GETTING BLAMED FOR IT. Saddam had repeatedly voided the cease fire agreements and no one did anything, that is until 9/11 and W. I don't understand why these issues are so conveniently forgotten. (My guess is that the war was "sold" wrong because it could not be sold any other way given the propensity for conspiracy theory that so many people just lo-o-ove to embark upon relative to W. If he did nothing about Iraq, I guarantee he would have been pilloried for that too. The guy couldn't win.)<BR/><BR/>Oh yeah, comparing Kosovo and Iraq is like comparing apples and oranges.<BR/>[rant off]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125409616722843132005-08-30T06:46:00.000-07:002005-08-30T06:46:00.000-07:00Hi, Ben Tilly.Your comment "Now I'm not saying tha...Hi, Ben Tilly.<BR/><BR/>Your comment <BR/>"Now I'm not saying that the income tax was the cause of that. But it apparently didn't hurt, either. I have a theory about that. My theory is that when your tax rate gets that high, CEOs have far less incentive to drain the companies that they run for personal profit, and far more of one to try to get pleasure out of making their companies successful."<BR/>has inspired me.<BR/><BR/>Picture Mr. Wealthy man, with a income of $10,000,000 a year in 1955. He knows that he will be taxed on 90% of that, so only $1,000,000 will go into his pocket... but if he donate or invests half (4.5 Million) he'll keep the other half, putting 5.5 Million in his pocket. <BR/>(Yes, I know that's not how it really worked, but it's closer than people realize). <BR/>So he gives a couple million to a museum (university, library, whatever), they name a building after him and say nice things to him, and he plows a couple million more into his businesses and he gets to keep more of his profit. And the university can get more students in without charging more, and the museum can expand without increasing admissions, etc. AND his business expands to fill existing/new demand.<BR/><BR/>And THAT is how a high tax rate stimulates the economy... by leaving loopholes that encourage investment.<BR/><BR/>HawkerHurricane, SM1(SW), USN (ret)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125406144082971152005-08-30T05:49:00.000-07:002005-08-30T05:49:00.000-07:00I'd like to comment on trickle-down with one of my...I'd like to comment on trickle-down with one of my favorite pieces of trivia.<BR/><BR/>What do you think that the top personal income tax rate was during the largest expansion of the US middle class on record?<BR/><BR/>If you believe in trickle-down, it must have been low, right? Because the rich need to be free to spend to generate economic activity, right?<BR/><BR/>Now for the answer. Would you believe <B>over 90%</B>? The expansion in question happened during the 50s, when the income tax on earnings of more than a million a year (note, that was in 1950s dollars) wavered between 91% and 92%. At the same time that the tax rate on the median family was lower than it is today.<BR/><BR/>Now I'm not saying that the income tax was the cause of that. But it apparently didn't hurt, either. I have a theory about that. My theory is that when your tax rate gets that high, CEOs have far less incentive to drain the companies that they run for personal profit, and far more of one to try to get pleasure out of making their companies successful.<BR/><BR/>JFK began the process of eroding that regime, by dropping the top rate to the 70% range, and reducing the number of income tax brackets. Both trends have continued since. Today a 6 figure income (in 2005 dollars) easily puts you in the top income tax bracket. Which has a far lower rate.<BR/><BR/>To me it seems fair that a doctor who makes $200,000/year should be treated differently than a teacher who makes $40,000/year. But it doesn't make sense that the doctor is treated the same as a CEO who makes $100,000,000/year!Ben Tillyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04335648152419715383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125389163115015172005-08-30T01:06:00.000-07:002005-08-30T01:06:00.000-07:00@Stefan:Sorry. It was very late (or very early).@j...@Stefan:<BR/>Sorry. It was very late (or very early).<BR/><BR/>@joel:<BR/>"The point of the article is that science is, unless it's being politicized, morally neutral."<BR/><BR/>If that is the point of the article, I missed it.<BR/><BR/>The Net will not save ASL or BSL without deaf people around. Even a culture has to die someday.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125386560116076422005-08-30T00:22:00.000-07:002005-08-30T00:22:00.000-07:00I stand corrected by my wife; it was my daughter's...I stand corrected by my wife; it was my daughter's right humorous, not her left. And it was NO FUN to watch them wheel her away from us, once to put pins in her arm, and once to take them out. <BR/><BR/>DB makes a good point about free association; none of the people I know who speak and use ASL are actually deaf. <BR/><BR/>Even so, it's not like it's Navajo, or Ainu...Rob Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13115249244056328076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125378956056324262005-08-29T22:15:00.000-07:002005-08-29T22:15:00.000-07:00Sorry to clog this with posts, but Dr. Brin's post...Sorry to clog this with posts, but Dr. Brin's post reminds me that the internet could save ASL (or perhaps only its ancestor, French sign language, given their better broadband penetration ;), by making videophoines more widespread and allowing the deaf community to keep in touch over a wider geographic area without resorting to written language.<BR/><BR/>(deleted & reposted due to a lack of editing options)Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16755460714090772432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125378021064307942005-08-29T22:00:00.000-07:002005-08-29T22:00:00.000-07:00Sorry about the troll language: I do think it's hu...Sorry about the troll language: I do think it's humane to perform surgery on children and animals against their will, especially if anesthesia is used.<BR/><BR/>And I couldn't agree more with the points that a) the younger someone is, the faster they'll develop comprehension of a new sense, and b)the implants should happen ASAP for exactly that reason. <BR/><BR/>The fact remains that the surgery is done to people who cannot understand the surgery and who lack an understanding of auditory input. Not that I think these are valid reasons to avoid the surgery; I'm not bitter about being circumcised, even though I think I might not have been anesthetized for it.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16755460714090772432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125377023631933562005-08-29T21:43:00.000-07:002005-08-29T21:43:00.000-07:00The thing that is antimodernist about it is the im...The thing that is antimodernist about it is the implied contempt for people, assuming that, fully empowered, they cannot simply re-align their associations and form any neotribal groups that suit their fancy.<BR/><BR/>Exactly as we are doing right now via the internet, the most modernist thing around.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125376300858750262005-08-29T21:31:00.000-07:002005-08-29T21:31:00.000-07:00You've got to be kidding. No capacity to comprehen...You've got to be kidding. No capacity to comprehend? Have you even *met* a two-year-old? Have you an idea how fast very small children learn to cope with newness like that? <BR/><BR/>"Oh, Johnny, we love you so much that we're gonna wait until much later, when your brain is far less capable, or entirely incapable, of learning rapidly to process new sensory input, so that you'll have a *choice* about whether or not to stay in a poorly-understood minority group, and so that during your teen years your speech will be irreversably stunted, making you the laughing stock of your high school!"<BR/><BR/>Personally I'd arrest such people, were that the reason they were keeping a human sense from their children. <BR/><BR/>As far as "strapping them down and cutting them open", they did it to my 4-year-old daughter last year, to repair a defect in her left humorous, seeing as how it was broken. <BR/><BR/>And then we did it again to my 2-year-old son, to repair a defect in his front upper incisors, which didn't form all of their enamel, so that he didn't writhe in pain years later as they fell out early due to decay...<BR/><BR/>And *again* to that four-year-old, a bit later, to fill a cavity.<BR/><BR/>Personally I think it's antimodernist blathering to complain about the loss of "ASL culture", not to mention kind of ethnocentric (what of European Sign Language?) or to call for not giving hearing to people, just to keep a contrivance like sign language communication from "dying out".Rob Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13115249244056328076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125371975836774672005-08-29T20:19:00.000-07:002005-08-29T20:19:00.000-07:00Yes, people are strapping down two-year-olds, cutt...Yes, people are strapping down two-year-olds, cutting them open, and giving them a <I>new</I> sense which they've never had before, and have no capacity to comprehend, much less the wherewithal to give informed consent before the procedure.<BR/><BR/>I happen to think the surgery is a good idea, but it's a threat to the language because of the drastically reduced number of ASL users there would be if every child who was a candidate for the surgery recieved it: rule of thumb, a language needs 10k speakers to survive contact with the outside world.<BR/><BR/>I'm certainly not in favor of changing adults against their will, but I'd like to posit that doing the same to children before they've adapted to a certain lifestyle is more morally ambiguous.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16755460714090772432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1125365718576070062005-08-29T18:35:00.000-07:002005-08-29T18:35:00.000-07:00Complete hearing loss can be reversed with a cochl...<I>Complete hearing loss can be reversed with a cochlear implant... many deaf people see the surgery not as a cure but as a threat to an otherwise vibrant culture.</I><BR/><BR/>Buh what?<BR/><BR/>No, seriously, I boggle at that. Are we now strapping the deaf to surgery tables against their will for a cochlear implant? <BR/><BR/>And, forgive my apparant ignorance, but what person in his right mind would turn down a chance to have a lost sense restored to him? That's an augment which doesn't at all constrain a persons ability to associate with the un-augmented deaf, or communicate using sign language. So what's the complaint?Rob Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13115249244056328076noreply@blogger.com