tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post111819178548954581..comments2024-03-28T22:45:34.599-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Sen. Frist: Many Antimodernists Are Brainy...David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118603548026739082005-06-12T12:12:00.000-07:002005-06-12T12:12:00.000-07:00"OK, so the stuff is hard to do -- duh!"I didn't m..."OK, so the stuff is hard to do -- duh!"<BR/><BR/>I didn't mean that people are not intelligent or creative enough. It's also a matter of what you spend your time, energy and <BR/>money on as people only have a limited supply of these resources. The human race generally solves this problem by dividing <BR/>tasks between inviduals ergo specialization. All that then remains is holding the specialists accountable for any wrongdoings <BR/>they may commit. And that is a task that in the end can not be divided. It's everybodys responsibility.<BR/><BR/>"Licensing does nothing other than create shortages and increase the income and status of the licensed class."<BR/><BR/>Getting a license is not easy (or it shouldn't be). It takes an education (hard work for most) and an examination by people who have already proven themselves as skilled and trustworthy. Getting a license granted is a challenge and those who overcome it should be rewarded. I like to think that the most satifying reward is the trust and respect of the community, but for some reason a high salary is prefered by most licensees.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118590718922748722005-06-12T08:38:00.000-07:002005-06-12T08:38:00.000-07:00"Other points of difference are (1) that it's both..."Other points of difference are (1) that it's both possible and often desirable to turn the computer off until a cure for the virus is found, and (2) sometimes the cure is to zap the whole system disk and rebuild the system software from scratch. Obviously neither applies in the human realm. "<BR/><BR/>Not yet. Turning people loose and letting them play with genetic tools, medical tools, and so forth will make this restriction (and others) more likely to fall to new technologies.<BR/><BR/>"Most people (millions and millions of them) leave that to professionals like Symantec or McAfee."<BR/><BR/>Of course these "professionals" needed no permission or license to sell their solutions. They simply needed to prove to the satisfaction of paying customers that they knew what they were doing.<BR/><BR/>Licensing does nothing other than create shortages and increase the income and status of the licensed class. Forget using laws to force people to "leave it to the professionals" - they're perfectly capable of choosing their own professionals when they have a vested interest in doing so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118521503747888352005-06-11T13:25:00.000-07:002005-06-11T13:25:00.000-07:00I think the real benefit of widespread sequencing ...I think the real benefit of widespread sequencing will be more targeted, rational, and humane quarantine procedures. <BR/><BR/>For instance, anyone with a natural immunity to HIV can safely go into a plague house, without any risk of bubonic or pneumatic infection. There is a relatively straightforward genetic test for this sort of immunity.<BR/><BR/>There will likely be countless more examples of analogous traits as our knowledge of contagion increases.<BR/><BR/>Those of us fortunate to have complete immunity to something (or, less likely, to several things) may feel the need to take a few classes in paramedic procedures. In this case, people to whom the quarantine does not apply (and this will be different for every attack) can go in and do some help. The larger a population we can draw from for such a response, the better off we will be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118509989747392242005-06-11T10:13:00.000-07:002005-06-11T10:13:00.000-07:00Other points of difference are (1) that it's both ...Other points of difference are (1) that it's both possible and often desirable to turn the computer off until a cure for the virus is found, and (2) sometimes the cure is to zap the whole system disk and rebuild the system software from scratch. Obviously neither applies in the human realm. <BR/><BR/>As for the relative general complexities of biological versus computer virology, I think microbiology and genetics in the human case is far more complex, but I can't actually prove it by deriving the two relavent complexity measures, proving that they are comparable, and exhibiting the comparison. <BR/><BR/>Two interesting web sites and associated books re the computer virus case are:<BR/><BR/>http://www.peterszor.com/<BR/><BR/>http://www.cryptovirology.com/<BR/><BR/>I think an interesting discussion, if someone knew enough about both biology and computer science, might be biological analogs of computer cryptoviruses and polymorphic and [oh, hell why not?] cryptopolymorphic viruses. But that would take us way off the topic of this blog.<BR/><BR/>OK, so the stuff is hard to do -- duh! But unless I've really missed the whole point, I guess Brin and anyone who generally agrees with him [like me, for instance] has to say something like "OK, so it's hard -- do we throw up our hands and 'abandon ship'? Hell, no -- we solve the problems anyway!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118491808370149862005-06-11T05:10:00.000-07:002005-06-11T05:10:00.000-07:00"Good analogy" ???If so can you explain to me why ..."Good analogy" ???<BR/><BR/>If so can you explain to me why not everybody is writing their own antivirus programmes ? Most people (millions and millions of them) leave that to professionals like Symantec or McAfee. Isn't that because it's just to darned hard ? And genetics doesn't seem any easier to me. Maybe genetic engineering can be automated and we can let machines do all the hard work for us, but can they really compete with human creativity ? Why can't I buy an antivirus programme today that doesn't need any updates or upgrades?<BR/><BR/>Specialization (which is a synonym for professionalization) has always been a valuable tool to the human race. Different people do different jobs and we all try to work together acknowledging each others value in society. (Well, that's true for most of us anyway)<BR/><BR/>BTW, testing an antivirus programme for a computersystem is not exactly the same thing as testing a possible cure on a human being. Who will you volunteer to ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118415394994642812005-06-10T07:56:00.000-07:002005-06-10T07:56:00.000-07:00"Well, this is the hope. Unfortunately, it is almo..."Well, this is the hope. Unfortunately, it is almost always easier to destroy things than to protect them. In this case I imagine something rather like computer viruses of today- a hacker releases a virus of some sort which causes a fair amount of damage in the short term. The experts anlyze the virus and release a patch that renders it effectively harmless (for everyone who has easy access to the patch). "<BR/><BR/>Well, more widespread knowledge and access to genetic technology and medical technology would make possible not only faster counermeasures, but cheaper, better, <I>individually owned</I> life support measures to forestall death until (a) the immune system beats the pathogen on its own or (b) countermeasures are made available.<BR/><BR/>Imagine if, during a flu epidemic, you didn't have to get to overcrowded hospitals and be tended to by overworked doctors, but instead pulled your own life support unit out of your closet and hooked yourself up? That's the kind of decentralized response we're forestalling by our current "leave-it-to-the-professionals" attitude toward medicine.<BR/><BR/>Also, back to IT for a moment, the platform whose inner workings is proprietary is plagued by viruses, while the platform where <I>everything</I> is open-source may look more vulnerable, but is actually far less susceptible since the knowledge to create quick countermeasures is <I>extremely</I> widespread.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118376967963751962005-06-09T21:16:00.000-07:002005-06-09T21:16:00.000-07:00Quoth Brin:'Buried in the 700-plus page energy bil...Quoth Brin:<BR/>'<I>Buried in the 700-plus page energy bill currently under debate in the U.S. Senate is a provision that provides hundreds of millions of dollars worth of federal loan guarantees for a power project apparently to be built by four former Enron executives...</I>'<BR/><BR/>Let's see:<BR/>- hidden away<BR/>- jobs for the boys<BR/>- public can carrying<BR/><BR/>Ye-es, I think that covers most of your bases.<BR/><BR/>Now, for a demonstration of how 'clarification' can become a weasel word, go and google the news for "Philip Cooney".<BR/><BR/>Of modifications he made to offically approved White house documents: <BR/>'<I>The dozens of changes, while sometimes as subtle as the insertion of the phrase "significant and fundamental" before the word "uncertainties", tend to produce an air of doubt about findings that most climate experts say are robust.</I>'<BR/><BR/>Clarification.<BR/><BR/>As Simon & Garfunkel said: '<I>the Man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.</I>'<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, some interesting comments on counters to backsliding at <A HREF="<br/>www.worldchanging.com/archives/002862.html" REL="nofollow">WorldChanging</A>Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118360789049118482005-06-09T16:46:00.000-07:002005-06-09T16:46:00.000-07:00Quoth Brin:'Meanwhile, the Justice Dept has unilat...Quoth Brin:<BR/><I>'Meanwhile, the Justice Dept has unilaterally reduced the major federal civil judgement against the Tobacco industry by 90%.<BR/>'</I><BR/><BR/>I'd say burn 'em, except it would probably be just what they wanted!<BR/><BR/>PS: that story is 'Written in Blood' by Chris Lawson. It appears in 'Centaurus: The Best of Australian Science Fiction' (and I believe it originally appeared in Asimov, June 1999). I'll hold off the solution for a bit, other than to say that it is pretty obvious when you look at the problem: I suppose that's what makes it satisfying (I still think it's a strange thing to want to do though!).Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118339671381684762005-06-09T10:54:00.000-07:002005-06-09T10:54:00.000-07:00Sayeth Tony: "I've just remembered a short story a...Sayeth Tony: "I've just remembered a short story about 'enlightened' but nonetheless devout muslims who reverse encode the word of God into their DNA (as you do: the ultimate mantra, it seems), and then realise that this presents a perfect vector for tailored viruses. I won't spoil it by telling you how they solve their dilemma!"<BR/><BR/>Tell us!<BR/><BR/>Ah but while we theorize...<BR/><BR/><BR/>Buried in the 700-plus page energy bill currently under debate in the U.S. Senate is a provision that provides hundreds of millions of dollars worth of federal loan guarantees for a power project apparently to be built by four former Enron executives. One of<BR/>the former executives is Thomas White, former head of Enron's retail and energy trading in California during the energy crisis who later served as President Bush's Secretary of the Army.... The federal loan guarantee makes taxpayers responsible for repaying the loan if the company defaults, or if the project ends up not being<BR/>economically feasible after its construction. <BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, the Justice Dept has unilaterally reduced the major federal civil judgement against the Tobacco industry by 90%. <BR/><BR/>Imagine the howls if a similar level of blatant bribery and corruption had occurred in the Clinton Administration. But this is normal today.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118311317893945572005-06-09T03:01:00.000-07:002005-06-09T03:01:00.000-07:00Anonymous:"and I don't think you know how powerful...Anonymous:<BR/>"and I don't think you know how powerful modern genetic analysis techniques are."<BR/><BR/>Technology has always been a double-edged sword. Arms races are the natural consequence of this. I'm sure terrorists would love to get their hands on such powerful techniques as you describe... and then we will just have to invent other more powerfull techniques and so on. Meanwhile people die in the streets.<BR/><BR/>"No, trust me, we'd be much worse off if these hypothetical terrorists sent a few dozen "martyrs" through the biochem and genetic engineering graduate programs at our research universities and then had them do original research that stayed off the scientific radar." <BR/><BR/>Well, it would limit the number of suspects and their research would only stay under the 'public' radar.<BR/><BR/>Portlander:<BR/>"a decentralized network of effectively identical researchers who can tackle the problem in parallel"<BR/><BR/>Sounds good, but even a network has its borders. There are people inside the network and people who never get to enter it. Sharing information *within* the network is of course essential, but it doesn't need to go anywhere else. (in time the network may be expanded and encapsulate even the entire population, but slowly not radically)<BR/><BR/>"Other factors are at work. In bio-warfare, as in nuclear warfare, we will need to rely on (and somehow reinforce) those other factors."<BR/><BR/>I completely agree.<BR/><BR/>David Brin:<BR/>"This is the logic of the protector caste... and while it can be right in the short term and tactically, here and there, it is dead wrong on a strategic, secular and long term basis."<BR/><BR/>Ah, the long term... Well, as I am an optimist, who believes in the improvement of mankind, I must agree to this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118295451848970682005-06-08T22:37:00.000-07:002005-06-08T22:37:00.000-07:00I had a look at Frist's paper and, yes, it is a re...I had a look at Frist's paper and, yes, it is a reasonably worded document (although the language, at times, seems more appropriate for the senate floor. OTOH: the 'ev*ln' word, from the heart of the red states!). It suggests no explicit measures, only laying out the problem of emergent diseases and saying that the US should make an effort to do something about it. <BR/><BR/>Being ignorant of internal American politics, I can't comment on what associates of Frist <I>might</I> explicitly propose...but I get the point.<BR/><BR/>There are some telling passages which inadvertently play to Brin's theses eg: '<I>As majority leader, I was in China to study the SARS outbreak at its height and the government’s confused, deceptive and<BR/>inadequate response.</I>' (cf Brin's <I>'Elsewhere see how I point out that citizens, rather than acting like sheep on 9/11, were the only ones who reacted swiftly, effectively, and got it right, that day.)'</I>. (Well, maybe Frist <I>was</I> thinking about the basic resilience and 'can do' of the US citizen ;-)<BR/><BR/>Another thing that came through (and I've seen this in other american writers whose heads clearly know better, as does Frist) is a tendency to treat global issues as if America is the only country on Earth. Thus, Frist talks about how stocks of Tamiflu are insufficient to vaccinate the american population, and doesn't mention the more effective response, which is to vaccinate the people of SE Asia to lower the initial contagion rate, thereby buying time.<BR/><BR/>Moving on from the topic of rampant killer viruses brandishing the Qu'ran meme*, Groklaw posted <A HREF="http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050608093829464" REL="nofollow">this article</A> concerning PubPat's Executive Director Dan Ravicher's testimony to the US House of Representatives (Jun 8) on proposed patent reform. <BR/><BR/>Interesting excerpt that seems to resonate with one of the themes of this posting (italics mine):<BR/><BR/>'... the interests of the non-patent holding public are <I>almost always absent from any meaningful participation in decision making</I> about the patent system, despite the fact that <I>they bear the brunt of its burdens</I>. The lack of representation of the public's interests is due in part to the fact that the patent community culture <I>tends to dismiss the opinions of those it sees as outsiders</I>, but it is mostly a result of <I>the public not yet realizing how the patent system affects them</I>.'<BR/><BR/>--------<BR/>*Or should that be 'rampant killer memes brandishing Qu'ran viruses'? DB has been talking about 'Jitterbug', and I've just remembered a short story about 'enlightened' but nonetheless devout muslims who reverse encode the word of God into their DNA (as you do: the ultimate mantra, it seems), and then realise that this presents a perfect vector for tailored viruses. I won't spoil it by telling you how they solve their dilemna!<BR/>(Sorry! Can't remember the title)Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118289815369382752005-06-08T21:03:00.000-07:002005-06-08T21:03:00.000-07:00When technology evolves to the point where any col...<I>When technology evolves to the point where any college graduate with a chip on his soldier and a few thousand bucks can develop a killer virus, the continued existence of our way of life will hinge completely on lightning fast and accurate communication between a wide community of experts.</I><BR/><BR/>But when technology evolves to that point, wouldn't any college graduate without a chip on his shoulder and a few thousand bucks be able to synthesize a defense for said virus, and market it for a low cost?<BR/><BR/>Wouldn't lightning fast and accurate communication be a given in such a situation?<BR/><BR/>Technology is not an either/or proposition. As Dr. Brin points out, it revolves around the ratio of sociopath to citizen, as it always has.<BR/><BR/>And damn Heinlein for ruining me as a kid, but I'm a human race optimist. :PDoorintosummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07730571412839704902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118288904541737882005-06-08T20:48:00.000-07:002005-06-08T20:48:00.000-07:00Excellent and thought provoking post, Dr. Brin. Am...Excellent and thought provoking post, Dr. Brin. Among many nuggets o' goodness, I was struck by this:<BR/><BR/><I>Because we will never get modernism moving again so long as we give in to a bad habit encouraged by indignation junkies of both left and right - screaming at strawman caricatures of our enemies, instead of engaging those opponents, as they are. Take the fellow you despise most. He (probably) does not envision himself as evil, or even unreasonable. Rather, he feels he is a very likeable and intelligent and generous soul, with a clear bead on what is needed in order for civilization to thrive.</I><BR/><BR/>This is pragmatic common sense utterly rejected in political discussion. See our 'enemies' as fellow human beings?! Preposterous! Ridiculous! Treasonous! Mrfl-Kloof! (Means something really nasty in Rigelian.)<BR/><BR/>I've found that this is most prominently illustrated in anarchist discussion, anarchism being about as radical on the political scale as such things can get, other than totalitarianism, but I don't think they have discussions.<BR/><BR/>But guess what? Same damn thing. Moronic 'left vs. right' arguments. The leftist anarchists (aka 'True Anarchists', 'Syndicalists', 'An-Socs') raging at the rightist anarchists (aka 'True Anarchists', 'Rothbardians', 'An-Caps') with great fervor and passion and almost no recognition that they are all fellow humans who work for their bread, love their kids, and more than likely refrain from beating up old ladies on the street.<BR/><BR/>And their differences are almost entirely semantic.<BR/><BR/>This is my rambling and roundabout way of saying that I quite like your concentrated intellectual attack on the left-right paradigm, and your reframing the debate in terms of modernist vs. nostalgist. :)<BR/><BR/>It would be a shame if the first intersteller scouting expedition to arrive in Sol System found the Earth a burnt husk and recorded our existence with:<BR/><BR/>"Curious species. Spent several thousand years arguing semantics based on a physiological bilateral symmetry trait before destroying itself. No legacy of note other than a few footprints on the moon."<BR/><BR/>I'll be reading and discussing from now on. Wonderful blog. Thanks for taking the time.Doorintosummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07730571412839704902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118274386287870212005-06-08T16:46:00.000-07:002005-06-08T16:46:00.000-07:00Sayeth Yngve: "If only we could get the flu viruse...Sayeth Yngve: "If only we could get the flu viruses to do something FOR us, we'd have a mutually beneficient symbiosis...<BR/>;-)"<BR/><BR/>See my short stoty "The Giving Plague." Reeeelly apropos!<BR/><BR/>Oh, I don't mind certain types of secrecy or exclusivity for the "protector caste." Certainly specific details of technique, for example. (I also don't want civilians driving tanks around). None of which has anything to do with the fundamentals of:<BR/><BR/>1 - accountability. The caste (consisting of humans) will naturally try to evade it. Secrecy that evades accountability of policy or behavior is wrong.<BR/><BR/>2 - empowering an agile, resilient citizenry with whatever tools may be positive-sum, with benefits far outweighing dangers.<BR/><BR/>"Competency, self-reliance and knowledgeability do not equate morality. The more people have access to genetic knowledge the more often it will be abused. A whole new class of crimes will appear."<BR/><BR/>This is the logic of the protector caste... and while it can be right in the short term and tactically, here and there, it is dead wrong on a strategic, secular and long term basis. The entire enlightenment experience has shown that empowered citizens become better at RECIPROCAL accountability. A result is that creative efforts are additive while harmful competitive modes to a large extent cancel.<BR/><BR/>Sayethe Jacare: " When technology evolves to the point where any college graduate with a chip on his soldier and a few thousand bucks can develop a killer virus, the continued existence of our way of life will hinge completely on lightning fast and accurate communication between a wide community of experts. It is better that such a community should be built soon and become accustomed to working together and sharing information."<BR/><BR/>i could not have said it better. (Frank gets it, too.) This is our only hope. Yes, this is a gamble, but paternalistic protection cannot possibly succeed over the long run. <BR/><BR/>The difference will ultimately hinge upon the ratio of citizens to sociopaths. Doesn't it ALWAYS hinge on that? All evidence suggests that this ratio HAS BEEN RISING DRAMATICALLY since the enlightenment. Anecdotal evidence of criminality in the past, etc. Plus the steep decline in violent bullying in our schools. Lots of evidence.<BR/><BR/>Indeed, this ratio is the only reason our cities function at all, with teeny police forces.<BR/><BR/>Overall, our only chance is that this trend can continue and extend around the world. If so, the RATIO of problem-solvers to would be terrorists will make up for the terrorists' inherent advantage of surprise and momentum. We had better hope so.<BR/><BR/>And of course, this all hinges around the word "sanity"...<BR/><BR/>...another topic for this blog...David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118268945947508892005-06-08T15:15:00.000-07:002005-06-08T15:15:00.000-07:00Frank:Please go back and re-read our host's postin...Frank:<BR/><BR/>Please go back and re-read our host's postings on modernity, with respect to his comments on secrecy and openness.<BR/><BR/>The cure to the coming (and it is coming, just a matter of "when") bio-attack is having a decentralized network of effectively identical researchers who can tackle the problem in parallel. The researchers can't be identical when information isn't shared. The researchers can't be decentralized when only a select group holds all the cards. And there can't be massive parallel research in either case.<BR/><BR/>It's not like universal information implies a universal threat. A fission bomb requires only a critical mass of appropriate fissionable material. Give someone enough plutonium, and he can wipe out your city. If he is a suicide bomber, he needs nothing else: just bring together the critical mass of fissionable material in a bucket and wait for the afterlife. Almost everything we think of as an atomic bomb is really just a way to keep a critical mass from coming together until the desired time. You can do the same thing by hand, if you need to.<BR/><BR/>So, it isn't lack of knowledge that is preventing nuclear explosions. Other factors are at work. In bio-warfare, as in nuclear warfare, we will need to rely on (and somehow reinforce) those other factors. Some of which (such as motive and perceived gain) are being addressed in our host's essay(s).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118261442745881362005-06-08T13:10:00.000-07:002005-06-08T13:10:00.000-07:00Frank said:"The more 'free' genetic knowledge is s...<I>Frank said:<BR/><BR/>"The more 'free' genetic knowledge is spread over the world, the less time terrorists have to spend doing their own research."</I><BR/><BR/>Except that if the terrorists are using the 'free' genetic knowledge to develop their viral weaponry, then the presumably much larger entities that will be working on vaccines and cures will be able to isolate the virus(es) and develop countermeasures more easily, since they will have access to the root genetic codes that the terrorists modified (if they <I>didn't</I> modify the genes at all, then this is even <B>less</B> of a problem). Look, my dad's a prof. in biochem and genetics at a Teir 1 research university, so I have some "over-the-dinner-table-talk" type-knowledge about this sort of stuff (as well as a fair bit of personal investigation, aided and abbeted by my father), and I don't think you know how powerful modern genetic analysis techniques are. Combine our ever-increasing ability to rapidly assemble genomes with a genetic database that includes the unmodified precursor genetic material used in its development, and not only would we be able to identify the viral agent quickly, we'd also know <B>exactly</B> how it is different than the original genetic material. No, trust me, we'd be <B>much</B> worse off if these hypothetical terrorists sent a few dozen "martyrs" through the biochem and genetic engineering graduate programs at our research universities and then had them do original research that stayed off the scientific radar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118260345265813712005-06-08T12:52:00.000-07:002005-06-08T12:52:00.000-07:00@Jacare Sorridente:It will take a lot more than 'l...@Jacare Sorridente:<BR/><BR/>It will take a lot more than 'lightning fast and accurate communication between a wide community of experts'. A viral agent (or for that matter: a nanotechnological agent) that a certain villanous 'community' has spend perhaps years to develop will take a very long time to neutralize. <BR/><BR/>The more 'free' genetic knowledge is spread over the world, the less time terrorists have to spend doing their own research.<BR/><BR/>Just an idea: maybe a solution to the global virus threat would be to purposely introduce artificial viruses and bacteria into the natural world and thus create some kind of preventive global immune system.(or would that just make the situation worse ?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118254318816404812005-06-08T11:11:00.000-07:002005-06-08T11:11:00.000-07:00"Viruses tend to mutate to forms that ensure best ..."Viruses tend to mutate to forms that ensure best spreading."<BR/><BR/>And causing the death of carriers is disadvantageous to any natural virus. But of course what terrorists want is to continually design and spread new types of (very unnatural) viruses with as high a killrate as possible. It may even be possible to design a virus with an increased ability to withstand mutation agents in order to stop it from evolving itself out of existence. (an aside: it might be interesting to see how the population of 'natural' viruses and bacteria respond to the presence of such invasive 'artificial' viruses)<BR/><BR/>"We should, indeed, be spending more on research!"<BR/><BR/>More research usually leads to more knowledge. Who should have access to that knowledge? I'm sure terrorists will want it and the only way to stop them from getting it (well, most of it) is appointing the 'protector cast' you mentioned. Genetic knowledge should not be public domain. Tinkering with genes must be left to the professionals. At least then when something bad happens there's only a few suspects to interrogate.<BR/><BR/>"Those possible palliatives and solutions that involve stimulating an increasingly competent and self-reliant and knowledgeable citizenry will - unconsciously or consciously - be squelched."<BR/><BR/>Competency, self-reliance and knowledgeability do not equate morality. The more people have access to genetic knowledge the more often it will be abused. A whole new class of crimes will appear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118244153771352242005-06-08T08:22:00.000-07:002005-06-08T08:22:00.000-07:00a.r.yngve, Who said flu epidemics don't do anythi...a.r.yngve,<BR/> Who said flu epidemics don't do anything for us. They reduce the insolvence of our pension systems.-)<BR/>(Sorry about the black humour for those of you who aren't Aussies)reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06594313655855683716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118243584805045352005-06-08T08:13:00.000-07:002005-06-08T08:13:00.000-07:00About the evolution of plagues... If evolution is ...About the evolution of plagues... <BR/><BR/>If evolution is at work on bacteria and viruses (and I have no reason to think otherwise), then the most successful germs will be those that spread the most, but don't kill the host organism too quickly.<BR/><BR/>Ergo: the flu. Airborne, spreads very fast across large populations, passes quickly, leaves most victims alive, returns every year.<BR/><BR/>Face it, folks: with this setup, the pattern ain't gonna change. <BR/><BR/>If only we could get the flu viruses to do something FOR us, we'd have a mutually beneficient symbiosis...<BR/>;-)<BR/><BR/>-A.R.Yngve<BR/><A HREF="http://yngve.bravehost.com" REL="nofollow">http://yngve.bravehost.com</A>A.R.Yngvehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03972668378286177600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118231842334556272005-06-08T04:57:00.000-07:002005-06-08T04:57:00.000-07:00As can bookfinder.com (nice because it specializes...As can bookfinder.com (nice because it specializes in independent booksellers).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1118192945543412172005-06-07T18:09:00.000-07:002005-06-07T18:09:00.000-07:00Amazon.com can direct you to dozes of copies of Ji...Amazon.com can direct you to dozes of copies of <I>Jitterbug</I> for sale by various folks, some for literally a penny. "Certain interests" need to get their act together!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com