tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post86075245903619729..comments2024-03-18T21:52:45.757-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Our next big crisis...Would you believe phosphorus?David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-10566710572814335702014-08-17T18:31:07.650-07:002014-08-17T18:31:07.650-07:00Alex, my remark had to do with nobody actually dis...Alex, my remark had to do with nobody actually discussing the TED talk.<br /> <br />However, you did apply some useful re-framing which I missed: the speaker was talking about the benefits of adding a natural fungi to crop lots, whereas you rightly point out that it would be *reintroducing* (implicitly insert trademark here)natural fungi that have been effectively removed by agricultural practices.<br /><br />Permaculture types may be just yawning.<br /><br />I do think the practice would reduce the amount of phosphorus in circulation. It is still important to limit the amount being washed into the bodies of water where algae blooms are likely.<br /><br />Ah well: Onward to intestinal permaculture!Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-57341904533527267342014-08-17T17:11:38.905-07:002014-08-17T17:11:38.905-07:00@locum - read your extracted quote carefully. The...@locum - read your extracted quote carefully. Then understand what it means in terms of crop requirements.Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-9612880993266626472014-08-17T15:51:46.033-07:002014-08-17T15:51:46.033-07:00I just saw the TED Talk about indignation, and it ...I just saw the TED Talk about indignation, and it was great fun! For anyone who hasn't seen it, it is well worth the 20 minutes to watch (and the rest of life to reflect on).<br /><br />Earlier I posted a few suggestions for people interested in knowing more about how our brains work, and I totally forgot about one of the best. National Geographic has a series called "Brain Games" that is very entertaining and engaging. They use very little technical jargon and making fun with audience participation. I have shown a few episodes to my 10th grade classes and they almost beg me to show more. It's available on DVD, and I have seen it in some libraries as well.Paul Shen-Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-67641146390389593962014-08-17T15:50:52.791-07:002014-08-17T15:50:52.791-07:00onwardonwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-26318567367722671972014-08-17T13:40:10.142-07:002014-08-17T13:40:10.142-07:00@DB - Mais oui! ;)@DB - Mais oui! ;)Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-4099921979093628892014-08-17T11:46:07.368-07:002014-08-17T11:46:07.368-07:00Alex, surely you have read EXISTENCE and seen an ...Alex, surely you have read EXISTENCE and seen an endless stream of P-puns there?David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-641868468457801462014-08-17T08:57:42.838-07:002014-08-17T08:57:42.838-07:00@ Tony Fisk - the TED talk is saying little more t...@ Tony Fisk - the TED talk is saying little more than that industrial farming methods have effectively removed fungi from the soil which has had the effect of reducing the efficiency of phosphate uptake. We know this happens in the US as we see soils become increasingly friable as the fungi disappear. Even worse, we actively use fungicides for some crops.<br /><br />Which gets us back to Patricia's initial comment, IMO.<br /><br />However, the talk's solution on mitigates, but does not solve, the phosphorus solution. Phosphorus is moved geographically from farms to cities and thence to the oceans. Even if we utilized P perfectly on the farm, the cities would be a sink. So we need to recycle P at the consumption end so that it can be returned to the farm. Either that or farm P sequestering organisms in the oceans and use them for fertilizer (as has been done). <br /><br />Finally, the talk was about the element phosphorus (fr: phosphore). However the symbol being used in the slides was for phosphate (PO4).<br />That niggle I found that very annoying.Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-41642242109153752232014-08-16T21:30:29.379-07:002014-08-16T21:30:29.379-07:00Interesting that no one has yet commented on the T...Interesting that no one has yet commented on the TED speaker's point: adding a symbiotic fungi enhances a crop's efficiency in phosphorus uptake enormously. (greater test yields with half the P. In some cases, no need to add additional P at all)<br /><br />Related news: <a href="http://www.nature.com/srep/2013/130129/srep01145/full/srep01145.html" rel="nofollow">someone has developed a much simpler and less energy intensive method of synthesizing another fertiliser: ammonia</a>.Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-913573549572927592014-08-16T21:23:29.099-07:002014-08-16T21:23:29.099-07:00For anyone interested in the botanical side, there...For anyone interested in the botanical side, there's a fun little episode of Nature called "What Plants Talk About." Paul Shen-Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-74340395832930074092014-08-16T18:42:05.711-07:002014-08-16T18:42:05.711-07:00I'm amused at a child-like level at the notion...I'm amused at a child-like level at the notion that we will have to harvest the P out of our pee. A future generation of kids should have fun with that.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-80718084629825470722014-08-16T18:35:27.861-07:002014-08-16T18:35:27.861-07:00Um… “Testosterone decreases the ability of the fro...Um… “Testosterone decreases the ability of the frontal cortex to communicate with and rein in the amygdala.” No kidding?<br /><br />Here's a related one to contemplate: adipose tissue in women (fat cells) convert testosterone in their bloodstream into estrogen, which is part of why women average around 1/7th the testosterone levels of men. However, very thin women obviously have very little adipose, so they average higher levels of testosterone than other women. Paul Shen-Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62647933324015531662014-08-16T17:41:04.801-07:002014-08-16T17:41:04.801-07:00Vernor is terrific.Vernor is terrific.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-60534563428889297552014-08-16T15:34:46.390-07:002014-08-16T15:34:46.390-07:00http://sciencefictionmusings.blogspot.com/2011/10/...http://sciencefictionmusings.blogspot.com/2011/10/fire-upon-deep-science-fiction-symphony.html<br /><br />"The skroderiders are a sort of sentient sea creature with large fronds that is found across the galaxy. Skrodes lack the ability to form short term memory and ride on wheeled devices that help them store memories in order to function intelligently."<br /><br />As soon as read about the memory assistance I thought of this. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09127945598591929729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-50168462251385442212014-08-16T12:47:23.257-07:002014-08-16T12:47:23.257-07:00With small sensors installed in sewers, it's p...With small sensors installed in sewers, it's possible to identify people flushing unsuitable materials into the system, and issuing fines to violators. This would enable a more uncontaminated stream far more suitable for extraction and use as ag fertilizers.<br /><br />I expect a subset of people would scream if this were implemented. I'm in favor of it.<br />Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-74717057288816841542014-08-16T12:18:34.773-07:002014-08-16T12:18:34.773-07:00http://www.su.se/english/about/2.291/press-release...http://www.su.se/english/about/2.291/press-releases/new-process-for-natural-phosphorus-removal-1.4678<br />Another use for calcium.[to enable the bacteria which could extract phosphorus.]Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-86701464165401866082014-08-16T12:07:52.505-07:002014-08-16T12:07:52.505-07:00Patricia is correct. Phosphorus has been overused...Patricia is correct. Phosphorus has been overused in agriculture. It is irrelevant whether the runoff effects are a problem as we need phosphorus inputs or more efficient recycling to ensure that our crop production can continue. High quality deposits are limited and there is no way to create it, as we do nitrates. So a key factor is efficient use and recycling, which will impact farming methods and human waste disposal. Interestingly, as we start to adopt toilet water recycling for drinking, we could capture the phosphorus - California could be a leader here.<br /><br />One way or another, we will have to move phosphorus around as food production is geographically separated from consumption and will increasingly be so as cities increase in size. Only factory food or vertical farms in cities will reverse this trend. <br /><br /> Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-20920727534479513432014-08-16T11:41:28.986-07:002014-08-16T11:41:28.986-07:00The effects at sea vary with topography. In low-...The effects at sea vary with topography. In low-circulation eddies, like the Caribbean, the Med and especially the Black Sea, agricultural runoff has devastating effects.<br /><br />Of high circulation areas like the pacific coast? It is just a mild boost to plankton and to fisheries, no algae at all.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-44484411673288773072014-08-16T11:23:55.063-07:002014-08-16T11:23:55.063-07:00It would help the phosphorus situation enormously ...It would help the phosphorus situation enormously if agribiz simply stopped dumping it on its fields in amounts over and above the necessity to do so. It would also help our wetlands and coastlines, where this stuff is being washed out to sea with unpleasant results. That's just one aspect. Patricia Mathewsnoreply@blogger.com