tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post8568633868597989117..comments2024-03-28T12:24:02.367-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: The “utopian anarchy” that unites most science fictional wish-fantasiesDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-40808701516389777062018-07-22T22:30:29.974-07:002018-07-22T22:30:29.974-07:00David,
You regularly express that our "great...David,<br /><br />You regularly express that our "great experiment" is a special case, where a diamond-shaped society has formed, and where culture and scientific development can flourish. Because of my familiarity with your novels and your blog entries, I was not surprised to see your assertion in this post that "only one society ever found the trick to truly unleash human inventiveness through competitive enterprise." I know you usually favor modern society, to the point that I sometimes question whether you suffer from the "newer is better" fallacy. Because I frequently suffer from the "older is better" fallacy, I would like you to consider the possibility that your statement is incorrect.<br /><br />A big reason that our society appears to be such a success is because it rides, for a large part, on the shoulders of our ancestors. I cannot cite any specific examples without doing some research, but I believe it is possible that some past societies have had competition active at some nonbiological level, whether between individuals vying for work or acceptance or between schools of thought, and that these societies developed new science and thriving economies as a result. It is easy to say that a group of people who did not have transistors or plastics did not have scientific and economic development to the same extent as us denizens of the twentieth and twenty-first centuries, but they may have, and we cannot evaluate this question by looking solely at level of technological development; we must look at <i>rates of change</i>, or perhaps even rates of change per population. If we restrict ourselves to this metric, it becomes much harder to prove that modern society really is the only instance in which competition has been well-harnessed. <br /><br />Anecdotally, it is certainly possible that a classical power like Greece developed crafts, sciences, agriculture, and/or medicine at as fast a rate per capita as we are now doing, all because of competition between Greek city-states. I just want to make sure your future-facing, optimistic view of the present is well contrived.Duncan Ocelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793350396157268839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-227303905099792242018-07-21T12:03:57.639-07:002018-07-21T12:03:57.639-07:00onward
onwardonward<br /><br />onwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-81812089859248494232018-07-21T11:45:55.960-07:002018-07-21T11:45:55.960-07:00My hats are off to them. Who but the French could ...My hats are off to them. Who but the French could come up with a political situation that even novelists could not have invented. Winston Churchill said that the French are the most talented people in Europe and this is a beautiful example. American scandals pale by comparison. The funny thing is that th French have been having the most inventive scandals for 1500 years or so and yet they prosper throughout it all nd even end up on top (so to speak). They are inventive, imaginative, tolerant given to wonderful flights of fantasy in just about every domain yet I have rarely meet a people so hard-nosed at the same time.Deuxglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03488986307291616948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-39097602842469694342018-07-21T11:01:18.444-07:002018-07-21T11:01:18.444-07:00Ah France! Never a dull moment!Ah France! Never a dull moment!Deuxglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03488986307291616948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-13788805837976004282018-07-21T10:16:58.755-07:002018-07-21T10:16:58.755-07:00I just realized what the Republican Party and thei...I just realized what the Republican Party and their enthusiastic abandonment of principle reminds me of...<br /><br />The Sneetches.<br /><br />In the Dr. Seuss book, the star-bellied Sneetches considered themselves the betters of the plain-bellied Sneetches. But after a slick salesguy gave the plain-bellies their own stars, the star-bellies promptly removed their own stars, and their slogan became, "The best kind of Sneetches are Sneetches without!"<br /><br />The principles that Republicans used to espouse--fiscal responsibility, character mattering, loving the country--are analogous to the stars. Republicans used to promote themselves as superior by dint of <b>having</b> those principles, but now, "The best kind of Republicans are Republicans without!"<br /><br />Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-43060046520312680372018-07-21T09:11:10.496-07:002018-07-21T09:11:10.496-07:00In essence, what Blue Urban progressives like Davi...<br />In essence, what Blue Urban progressives like David are attempting to do is to entice the Red Rural identity group into joining the "Let's despise the Red Rural identity group" club.<br /><br />As conceits go, it's supremely absurd, being analogous to asking an Israeli to support the destruction of Israel or a black teenager to join the KKK.<br /><br />The Civil War (Part Deux) will therefore proceed as scheduled, unless or until the Blue Urban progressive contingent offers up some sort of genuine concession or compromise to the venerable Red Rural opposition.<br /><br />This the Blue Urban progressive simply cannot do, as the very idea of compromise or concession is 'inconceivable' to this & any other identity group which considers itself not only merely right, but really most sincerely right.<br /><br />Like Alfred's insane demand for complete Russian 'capitulation' prior to the normalisation of US & Russia relations.<br /><br /><br />Bestlocumranchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06812045410916208141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-77416878340309951862018-07-20T21:54:53.445-07:002018-07-20T21:54:53.445-07:00Zepp, your friend sounds exactly like the sort of ...Zepp, your friend sounds exactly like the sort of "ostrich" who could become a true patriot, if drawn out of his head hole. <br /><br />Ask him to consider what will happen to conservatism and market economics if oligarchy goes wild. SHouldn't he be angry at the oligarchs for hijacking American conservatism, and eager to rescue it by preserving something of its soul? A phoenix will only rise from the ashes if the Trump-Murdoch-Putin-Koch-Mercer putsch is fully burnt out.<br /><br />The key is to get away from Fox. But while I hate the man, George F. Will is saying things that ostriches might actually hear.<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-88376206215276708652018-07-20T21:38:36.498-07:002018-07-20T21:38:36.498-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.derahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12112432466158627946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-36819715284002904972018-07-20T21:13:17.276-07:002018-07-20T21:13:17.276-07:00Re: Brin bet. I've tried getting him to back ...Re: Brin bet. I've tried getting him to back his notions with a wager before. He always backs off. <br />One right wing acquaintance posted a meme the other day, an image of some student cold-cocking another student for not standing for the pledge. I commented, "So much for HIS civil rights!". To my amazement, my acquaintance responded, agreeing with me. He likes to annoy liberals, but if one of us challenges him in an intelligent manner, he'll reciprocate. We have a good back and forth about the role of state laws in upholding constitutional mandates now. <br />He's what I consider a "small mouth libertarian"--not a Randroid, and recognizes that in any society, of necessity at least 30% of the population cannot or should not work, and that a society that doesn't protect them isn't worth having.Zepp Jamiesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16261339498383415026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-15962694096008727252018-07-20T19:52:29.816-07:002018-07-20T19:52:29.816-07:00Zepp Jamieson:
The most amazing creatures in the ...Zepp Jamieson:<br /><i><br />The most amazing creatures in the party of Know-Nothings are the ones who remain utterly convinced that Trump is a patriot.<br /></i><br /><br />They detest NFL players for disrespecting the flag and the national anthem, but they proudly display confederate symbols of an armed rebellion <b>against</b> the United States.<br /><br />During the cold war, they used to screech at liberals that we should "go back to Russia" since we (supposedly) hated America. Who knew that they were projecting even then?Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-21386231100578786892018-07-20T19:48:17.885-07:002018-07-20T19:48:17.885-07:00Bob Neinast:
@Zepp: " On of them emailed me ...Bob Neinast:<br /><i><br />@Zepp: " On of them emailed me an utterly demented screed yesterday about how Rachel Maddow was going to stage a coup on Saturday and have Trump beheaded on the East Lawn."<br /><br />You should have made a Brin Bet with him.<br /></i><br /><br />That would be a win either way!Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-80758864537102040262018-07-20T19:35:24.926-07:002018-07-20T19:35:24.926-07:00@Zepp: " On of them emailed me an utterly dem...@Zepp: " On of them emailed me an utterly demented screed yesterday about how Rachel Maddow was going to stage a coup on Saturday and have Trump beheaded on the East Lawn."<br /><br />You should have made a Brin Bet with him.Ahcuahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06514651362748555460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-35345597417271927892018-07-20T19:02:00.497-07:002018-07-20T19:02:00.497-07:00Hi Zepp
"About half of America's billiona...Hi Zepp<br />"About half of America's billionaires did nothing to earn their first million"<br /><br />Disagree - it's actually over 95% that did nothing<br /><br />The ones that said they didn't "inherit" it were given it by their still living millionaire familiesduncan cairncrosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14153725128216947145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-21143505277880363132018-07-20T18:16:41.277-07:002018-07-20T18:16:41.277-07:00@Dr. Brin "See where it is now explicit and n...@Dr. Brin "See where it is now explicit and no longer a metaphor. The ones who shouted "MAGA!" loudest are exposed as the deepest traitors. But we already knew that here."<br /><br />The most amazing creatures in the party of Know-Nothings are the ones who remain utterly convinced that Trump is a patriot. On of them emailed me an utterly demented screed yesterday about how Rachel Maddow was going to stage a coup on Saturday and have Trump beheaded on the East Lawn. He knew I considered Maddow a good news source and just wanted to warn me of her perfidy. <br /><br />Should images emerge tomorrow of Maddow in a Kathy Griffin pose with a defunct president, I'll be sure to apologise to him.Zepp Jamiesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16261339498383415026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-21472456256898713082018-07-20T18:12:16.723-07:002018-07-20T18:12:16.723-07:00@donzelion " SOME Teslas exist, albeit not an...@donzelion " SOME Teslas exist, albeit not anywhere close to the numbers that were promised originally. SOME rockets exist, albeit not necessarily at the performance targets NASA requires for human launches."<br /><br />The model 3 has reached the 5,000/week goal set by the company, and is expected to be over 8,000/week by the end of August. Over half the electric vehicles on the road are Teslas. I'll posit that his rockets have achieved a higher level of performance than any other startup space project. (I'm old enough to remember when they spoke with straight faces about shuttle launches every week, and the joke about the American rocket countdown: "Three, Two, One, Oh, Shit") Perfect? No. Extraordinary? Yes. <br /><br />About half of America's billionaires did nothing to earn their first million, and as the GINI index worsens, that trend will strengthen. We have what the Founders most dreaded: an entrenched moneyed class that uses government, religion and corporate power to maintain control. Brin's "Gnomes of Zurich", only on Wall Street and in Silicon Valley.Zepp Jamiesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16261339498383415026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-31555448883143147532018-07-20T17:45:53.894-07:002018-07-20T17:45:53.894-07:00@Dr Brin,
That's what MAGA-wearing Trump supp...@Dr Brin,<br /><br />That's what MAGA-wearing Trump supporters <b>like</b> about him--he gives them permission to let their inner 12-year-old bully be out and proud.<br /><br />That's why I want to have a hat made with the letters moved around: AWGA. "America Was Great Already!"Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-9042357232399528402018-07-20T17:18:21.460-07:002018-07-20T17:18:21.460-07:00See where it is now explicit and no longer a metap...See where it is now explicit and no longer a metaphor. The ones who shouted "MAGA!" loudest are exposed as the deepest traitors. But we already knew that here. <br /><br /> https://thinkprogress.org/neo-confederates-reach-out-to-their-russian-friends-in-new-project-cef5134e2d76/<br /><br />They are proudly know-nothing, in service to blatantly and openly-avowed evil, and laugh hysterically when confronted. Fresh from Comicon, I can tell you that any comic book writer would be embarrassed to pen such openly-unembarrassed villains. This only parallel is 12 year old playground bullies named "Butch."David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-74464434186122090192018-07-20T16:20:10.418-07:002018-07-20T16:20:10.418-07:00@Larry Hart | he will soon drop to #2 on the char...@Larry Hart | <i> he will soon drop to #2 on the charts </i><br /><br />I SURE hope so.<br /><br />The current record holder really DID mean well.<br />I don't believe that for a moment for the possible record holder.<br /><br /><br />Libertarian views regarding taxation have a piss-poor record in court. It would be nice if actual, intentional criminals held the records, though. 8)<br />Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-19301155807503804802018-07-20T16:15:15.016-07:002018-07-20T16:15:15.016-07:00piss on your good intentions
A man without hope....<i> piss on your good intentions </i><br /><br />A man without hope. Explains a lot.<br /><br /><br /><i> malpracticing physician who 'meant well' but slaughters his patients </i><br /><br />A lot of us don't piss on them until we can see that 'meant well' really should have been better informed by education. Advocate homeopathy for my earlier colon cancer, convince me of your truth, and after my death my relatives might come after you. Advocate something that is more evidence based and fail to save my sorry behind and they likely won't. [This will be tested first with one of my sisters unless she gets lucky.]<br /><br />If you've been burned by one of these lawsuits, I'm partially sympathetic... depending on what you supposedly did. I think too many of us are inclined to blame doctors for being less than omniscient. We watch way too much competence porn on TV I think. Life doesn't work that way.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-63592026454370994862018-07-20T15:46:06.648-07:002018-07-20T15:46:06.648-07:00But talking about inclination at all is a minefiel...But talking about inclination at all is a minefield of racism and nationalism.sociotardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11697154298087412934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-43439486072855002542018-07-20T15:38:52.000-07:002018-07-20T15:38:52.000-07:00Cererean
There is a "Heritable" part to ...Cererean<br />There is a "Heritable" part to almost everything - but humans are incredibly "plastic" so the heritable part does not cause behaviour but it does cause inclination and ignoring that is just sillyduncan cairncrosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14153725128216947145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-63361671470148816912018-07-20T15:05:35.890-07:002018-07-20T15:05:35.890-07:00"Let’s all blame Charles Darwin. In every soc..."Let’s all blame Charles Darwin. In every society that developed metals and agriculture, human males were relentlessly rewarded - reproductively - for cheating. We’re all descended from the harems of strong, ruthless guys who used metal implements to coerce others into serving them. And we carry seeds of similar behavior; a fraction of us will seek dark corners of any type of society, using any rationalization and exploit any opportunity to gain advantage and repress competitors."<br /><br />I didn't take you for a neoreactionary, Brin. But you seem to be saying here that human inclinations are heritable - and it's not far from that to asking how recent selection could have shaped different populations. For example, how groups west of the Hajnal line might have been shaped differently to those east of it...Cerereanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14935694167944319731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-4602256892460828812018-07-20T14:20:01.854-07:002018-07-20T14:20:01.854-07:00All the good intentions in the world & $3 USD ...<br />All the good intentions in the world & $3 USD will (just barely) buy you a cup of Starbucks Coffee, insomuch as 'good intentions' are worth nada, zip & zero, as evidenced by a certain excitable little German who once sported an even littler mustache while trying to (unsuccessfully) perfect both humanity & human society. <br /><br />I therefore piss on your good intentions until the outcome of said intentions is a done-deal & a fait accompli, just as the rest of you tend to piss on the good-hearted but malpracticing physician who 'meant well' but slaughters his patients.<br /><br />Likewise, all the malevolent intentions in the world mean little or nothing if & when they result in a beneficently marvelous outcome, as exemplified by the Trumpster's recent attempt to normalise relations with the West's historically totalitarian Russian enemy, irregardless of the baseness of the relevant intentions and/or motivations.<br /><br />Whereas you are all 'ingrates' of the intentionalist variety, I have learnt that the best & most competent surgeons tend to be absolutely evil bastards (rather than 'angels') personality-wise.<br /><br /><br />Bestlocumranchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06812045410916208141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-87771354903619199382018-07-20T13:28:35.266-07:002018-07-20T13:28:35.266-07:00Alfred Differ:
and a few years later he was arres...Alfred Differ:<br /><i><br />and a few years later he was arrested as the biggest tax cheat in US history. <br /></i><br /><br />Whoever you're talking about, I suspect he will soon drop to #2 on the charts.<br /><br />The biggest tax cheat in US history hasn't been proven so yet in a court of law, but time will tell.Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-22213775216498174372018-07-20T13:08:34.408-07:002018-07-20T13:08:34.408-07:00@locumranch | My 'degree of separation' fr...@locumranch | My 'degree of separation' from Musk is 1 I believe, but the connection leads through about two dozen people. When I make statements about what he believes, they are based on what a number of people closer to him (direct connections) say including some who aren't enamored by him.<br /><br />The worst I've seen from people closer to him is concerns that he is trying to take on far more than he can succeed at, thus a failure in one venture will impact others. That he believes in himself is universally accepted among my connectors closer to him. That he intends to make the future better and will put up with all the trash talk to do it is also universally accepted. He exemplifies 'bourgeois courage' extremely well. Some of the elements of his faiths are also pretty obvious when one talks directly to people who know him.<br /><br />It's entirely possible he can fall. He wouldn't be the first I've known to do that. When I was first involved in work to open the space frontier, my separation was 0 from a man who was wealthy enough to pitch several million dollars at multiple projects. There was no doubt in the minds of many of us near to him that he intended to make the world a better place. That wasn't enough, though, and a few years later he was arrested as the biggest tax cheat in US history. The IRS obviously had a very different view of him. I know for a fact that he felt he was following the law and making use of legal loopholes. Unfortunately, he was acting as his own tax adviser. Self-delusion is VERY easy to do, so when his legal interpretations didn't hold up in court, off he went in an orange jumpsuit. My faith in the ideal he advocated is unharmed. My faith in him vanished and I learned a useful lesson. Objects of faith must be larger than people or communities of people. Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.com