tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post7891365311663671385..comments2024-03-28T12:42:22.578-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Ocean Fertilization redux… plus the politics of scienceDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-17764926871353493332013-07-17T13:50:47.301-07:002013-07-17T13:50:47.301-07:00//* We have two ears and one mouth*//
Two eyes.
T...//* We have two ears and one mouth*//<br /><br />Two eyes.<br />Ten fingers.<br />No wonder people are so prolix on the internet!!!rewinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14008105385364113371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-75247794648604699562013-07-17T00:10:08.037-07:002013-07-17T00:10:08.037-07:00It's not that the contrary opinions frighten m...It's not that the contrary opinions frighten me. I adore debating peers. It is that the faux-logic is nearly always utterly puerile and inane. <br /><br />One time in ten, there is a glimmer of the adult mind he will become. And for that sake, tolerate.<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-55548225052139609442013-07-16T23:56:10.569-07:002013-07-16T23:56:10.569-07:00"Take heed, little ones: We have two ears and..."Take heed, little ones: We have two ears and one mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak. Try to listen more in order to mature."<br /><br />Says the endlessly prolix fool who probably posts twice as much here as any other commentator.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-68279141027819375072013-07-16T20:59:27.495-07:002013-07-16T20:59:27.495-07:00Who has *ever* said that oil comes from dinosaurs?...Who has *ever* said that oil comes from dinosaurs?<br /><br />Please name your 'certain botanists, cell biologists and biochemists'Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-23741588025777301232013-07-16T20:15:23.659-07:002013-07-16T20:15:23.659-07:00It's easy to dismiss contrarian opinion as eit...It's easy to dismiss contrarian opinion as either juvenile or ignorant with "contemptuous certainty".. The problem is that the opinions which I express above are neither. Instead, they represent the authoritative opinions of certain botanists, cell biologists and biochemists, all of which stands for nothing when confronted by the ignorant certitude of glorified accountants, astrophysicists who think oil comes from dinosaurs and Rube Goldberg Machinery cultists.<br /><br />News flash. Oil comes predominantly from Algae rather than dinosaurs -- so it stands to reason that it will again -- and species diversity is merely a measure of ecological health rather than a determining factor as evidenced by the dominant human monoculture. Also, Economics is not a science; astrophysicists make good astrophysicists but poor biochemists; and the term 'technology' refers to "the application of scientific knowledge for practical purpose" rather than mere mechanism.<br /><br />Take heed, little ones: We have two ears and one mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak. Try to listen more in order to mature.<br /><br /><br />Best. locumranchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-76003329639753148392013-07-16T16:48:30.499-07:002013-07-16T16:48:30.499-07:00Speakiing of contrarian 16 yos<a href="http://www.kevinandkell.com/1995/kk0927.html" rel="nofollow">Speakiing of contrarian 16 yos</a>Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-80904393662132448182013-07-16T16:40:40.921-07:002013-07-16T16:40:40.921-07:00I watch locumranch's 'contrarian reasoning...I watch locumranch's 'contrarian reasoning' with bemused bewilderment, wondering where to even start... (suggesting that one shouldn't try)<br /><br />Ian beat me to it. From there, the bit about 'confusing diversity loss with sterility' just got even limper.<br /><br />It's a bit like arguing with the Black Knight, isn't it? (NoItIsnt!)Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-48696619473603956232013-07-16T16:30:47.086-07:002013-07-16T16:30:47.086-07:00It's not the incessant wrongness, it is the 16...It's not the incessant wrongness, it is the 16-year old's contemptuous certainty, while being cockeyed wrong and incurious over the POSSIBILITY of being wrong.<br /><br />Any biologist will explain that species diversity and complexity of food chains is a fundamental metric of ecosystem health. Any economist or historian or local fisherman in the Mediterranean will tell you that a morass of algae is not healthy. The vast amounts of methane emitted by such blooms more than make up for inhaled CO2.<br /><br />But ah... 16 year olds....David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-45164431155802490702013-07-16T16:23:55.605-07:002013-07-16T16:23:55.605-07:00"When Ian says that hypoxia and algae blooms ..."When Ian says that hypoxia and algae blooms are associated with "decreased biomass", he confuses fauna with flora as the term "algae blooms" clearly describes an increase in flora-based biomass. "<br /><br />No, Ian who worked for the Queensland EPA on projects aimed at reducing run-off into Moreton Bay and on managing algal blooms in South East Queensland dams is saying that the increase in one form of "floral-based biomass" is accompanied by a decrease in other forms of plant biomass and in animal biomass which results in a net loss of biomass.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-566533097041070322013-07-16T14:50:41.530-07:002013-07-16T14:50:41.530-07:00When Ian says that hypoxia and algae blooms are as...When Ian says that hypoxia and algae blooms are associated with "decreased biomass", he confuses fauna with flora as the term "algae blooms" clearly describes an increase in flora-based biomass. David does something similar when he redefines Mediterranean "fecundity" as "a poisoned morass", confusing a lack of diversity with sterility, which increases the drama of his 'Chicken Little'isms. It provides delicious irony to our conversations as the self-described optimist runs around screaming "The Sky is Falling" and the self-described 'Foxy Loxy" pessimist remains rational, calm and (as DB would say) "raving'. Birds of a feather flock together. <br /><br />Best.locumranchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-35850343325669312592013-07-16T11:35:56.792-07:002013-07-16T11:35:56.792-07:00Jumper... eep....Jumper... eep....David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-32495894746677292592013-07-16T11:01:44.710-07:002013-07-16T11:01:44.710-07:00Off topic, but lately I have been thinking about a...Off topic, but lately I have been thinking about an intelligent race out there, who are convinced they are alone in the galactic neighborhood: they have for millenia spread their urine in clouds around their star system, and no one has marked the spot yet...<br /><br />Yes, I'm sirius.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-60325686168700384482013-07-16T06:55:56.926-07:002013-07-16T06:55:56.926-07:00Robert: the Dutch do actually recover Phosphorus f...Robert: the Dutch do actually recover Phosphorus from the mouth of the Rhine but with current technology it's hugely exepnsive.<br /><br />In most places it's way cheaper to stop Phosphorus entering the waterways in the first place by doing stuff like paying farmers to treat their effluent and discharge the sludge to land as fertilizer..Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-66009983664522341492013-07-16T05:54:24.245-07:002013-07-16T05:54:24.245-07:00Increasing water exchange between anoxic zones and...Increasing water exchange between anoxic zones and the open ocean might actually both fertilizer the open ocean and improve productivity in the anoxic zones.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-20444743441167925742013-07-16T05:34:22.992-07:002013-07-16T05:34:22.992-07:00Considering the Gulf of Mexico is suffering from a...Considering the Gulf of Mexico is suffering from a lack of oxygen, why not set up some floating windmills with a generator that pushes air underwater? Basically like what you do for a fish tank. If you set it up in the zones where the dieoffs happen then you could create oases of oxygenation where fish can escape to.<br /><br />Alternatively, seeing that we have an increasing amount of phosphorus there, has there been any thought of filtering water in these dieoff zones to try and recover phosphorus for use in our farms? Seeing that phosphorus is becoming increasingly scarce over time, eventually you'd think this would be economical. At the very least it's something to spend research grant money on, for the dual purposes of cleaning up the environment and recovering phosphorus.<br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-59796698542953516232013-07-16T04:57:13.102-07:002013-07-16T04:57:13.102-07:00Hypoxia and algal blooms are associated with decre...Hypoxia and algal blooms are associated with decreased total biomass (and carbon). <br /><br />They also lead to increased emissions of methane, a greenhouse gas.<br /><br />Fertilization in the open ocean is unlikely to lead to hypoxia which is typically found in enclosed waters such as lakes or partially enclosed waters suchhas bays and gulfsIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-34110142653251984322013-07-16T01:39:13.765-07:002013-07-16T01:39:13.765-07:00Ah... " the Mediterranean, the Black Sea and ...Ah... " the Mediterranean, the Black Sea and the Gulf of Mexico." as pictures of Gaian health. I need say nothing. The fellow raves.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-72386787442576523072013-07-15T21:49:10.399-07:002013-07-15T21:49:10.399-07:00@Larry Hart - but see this report that is about ca...@Larry Hart - but see <a href="https://www.sciencemag.org/content/339/6123/1044.summary?sid=036a0986-2f7b-420a-aaee-7e8a95176e81" rel="nofollow">this report</a> that is about causative influence, not just covariance.<br /><br />It would not surprise me that our microbiome influences mood too.Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-43829109730642161342013-07-15T21:27:27.607-07:002013-07-15T21:27:27.607-07:00Larry is spot on:
This so-called correlation bet...Larry is spot on: <br /><br />This so-called correlation between infection and mood disorders, while 'striking' to incredibly credulous, proves little or nothing in terms of causality. It is merely anti-scientific gobbledygook reminiscent of the similarly 'strikingly causal' correlation between ice cream consumption and # of deaths by drowning.<br /><br />First, mood disorder & mental illness rates already affect 'every third person' (varying between 26% and 34% of the total population depending on your reference). Second, the diagnosis of the above mental conditions must necessarily presuppose an initial medical exam which can be easily correlated with (or 'caused by') some real or imagined 'infection'. And, third, mental illness also correlates with disproportionately high medical utilization which means more and more antibiotic prescriptions.<br /><br />Even more disheartening is our host's technological fetish which eshews proven biological processes in favour of mechanical crackpottery. Mechanical push-pull ocean pumps, my posterior. <br /><br />I say we do the opposite. We should discard our host's mechanistic anti-biological clockwork morality about our environment; we should stop confusing biological "fecundity" with "a poisoned morass of algae and jellyfish"; and we should assist the Earth as it fixes itself through proven CO2 sequestration processes already occurring the Mediterranean, the Black Sea and the Gulf of Mexico.<br /><br />Morality, environment, culture, climate, technology and humanity are ultimately unimportant: In the end, its only 'Adapt or Die'.<br /><br />Best.locumranchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-84962577940373976912013-07-15T20:51:26.920-07:002013-07-15T20:51:26.920-07:00Alex, you can cover a much larger area with an aer...Alex, you can cover a much larger area with an aerosol.<br /><br />There was an old NAS study which concluded that firing dust into the upper atmosphere from naval guns was the most cost-effective and achievable mitigation strategy.<br /><br />Subsequently there have been suggestions you could discharge the dust from passenger aircraft on commercial flights.<br /><br />A highly-dispersed aerosol is also less likely to have localized climatic effects.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-60801916528002426172013-07-15T16:42:37.018-07:002013-07-15T16:42:37.018-07:00Dr. Brin,
You said,
"Striking correlation be...Dr. Brin,<br /><br />You said,<br />"Striking correlation between infection and mood disorders: Researchers have found that every third person who is diagnosed for the first time with a mood disorder had been admitted to hospital with an infection prior to the diagnosis. That notion adds another facet to the "hygiene hypothesis" that links a variety of autoimmune conditions to an inflammatory response caused by the loss of healthy bacteria in the gut."<br /><br />First off the phrase mood disorders can range from mild depression through significant depression that requires hospitalization. You can also relate reported illness to depression and significant anxiety (which is also defined by the phrase mood disorder). I would suspect that unless more details are needed the simplest explanation is that the two covary rather than are in a causal relationship or more likely there's a third factor involved. This seems like too pat of an explanation to be likely.Larry C. Lyonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04315424229764736078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-5596010309037943382013-07-15T09:46:52.946-07:002013-07-15T09:46:52.946-07:00On a related note to Whales and fertilization, the...On a related note to Whales and fertilization, there is evidence that removal of apex predators damages ecosystems and their productivity.<br /><a href="https://www.sciencemag.org/content/333/6040/301.full" rel="nofollow">Trophic Downgrading of Planet Earth</a><br /><br />We tend to hunt many of the apex predators which may be resulting in some of the loss of ocean fertility. Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-46562604503070877412013-07-15T09:02:17.195-07:002013-07-15T09:02:17.195-07:00The "silicate rocks" for ocean de-carbon...The "silicate rocks" for ocean de-carbonization didn't make much sense until I saw it is the calcium content in granite which helps to lock down CO2. That calcium is not previously saturated with carbon (not carbonate form.) Nor is the other mineral content of the other constituents. Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-33321499440527888132013-07-15T07:36:08.850-07:002013-07-15T07:36:08.850-07:00@Ian
What is teh advantage of dispersing TiO2 in t...@Ian<br />What is teh advantage of dispersing TiO2 in the atmosphere compared to painting ground structures white? Is it the potentially larger coverage?Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-64338684005860265182013-07-15T05:01:46.140-07:002013-07-15T05:01:46.140-07:00Distributing Titanium Dioxide in the upper atmosph...Distributing Titanium Dioxide in the upper atmosphere remains one of the most effective means of global warming mitigation and I'm disappointed it hasn't attracted more attention.<br /><br />The other Great Green hope is bio-char.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.com