tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post7878921254724910677..comments2024-03-27T23:12:08.917-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Resist (Carefully!) the Parade Nonsense: Confidence speaks louder than symbolismDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger121125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-36128240869997872822018-03-29T19:41:47.468-07:002018-03-29T19:41:47.468-07:00What circle of Hell have I stumbled in to where Tr...What circle of Hell have I stumbled in to where Treebeard and Locumranch are speaking in coherent, congent sentences? Is the mothership within range? Did Ann Rand stir in her deathless slumber? Doom I say.Interested Observerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04686192811380975495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-75812305209340646092018-03-21T19:37:24.603-07:002018-03-21T19:37:24.603-07:00Looks like we have a virtual "onward!"Looks like we have a virtual "onward!"LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-74450053228848464382018-03-21T14:52:24.590-07:002018-03-21T14:52:24.590-07:00Hi PaulSB
My point about "found wealth"...Hi PaulSB<br /><br />My point about "found wealth" was not about the capital required<br />It was a bit more central than that<br />We can only make a new invention because of all of the previous "inventions"<br /><br />You design a new spade (for example) it then relies on the base knowledge of how to make the steel - how to make the press to stamp it out - how to paint it - how to transport it and how to sell it<br /><br />The base idea of the new spade is a thin veneer over the total knowledge that makes that new spade useful<br /><br />And most of that basic total knowledge is "common property" - any patents having long since expired<br /><br />duncan cairncrosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14153725128216947145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-46353805543660026822018-03-21T11:13:13.611-07:002018-03-21T11:13:13.611-07:00Alfred Differ:
Germany's prosperity isn't...Alfred Differ:<br /><i><br />Germany's prosperity isn't the result of them being a net positive exporter even though they might think it is so.<br /></i><br /><br />All I know is their rhetoric. It sounds as if they blame other countries for not emulating them and all becoming net exporters. You'd think it would be obvious why that can't happen.<br /><br /><i>The company making the car is going to start with an ask price above their cost for obvious reasons, but a downstream dealer might not. She might have found a motivated seller who needed to get something off his lot.<br /></i><br /><br />15 years or so ago, my wife and I lucked out looking for a used car because we can both drive a stick. The dealer we went to happened to have a car he was trying to move off the lot, and when he looked at the paperwork and said, "Oh, you probably don't want that one. It's a stick shift", we just smiled knowingly at each other. That car ended up lasting us more than 10 years.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-6634032240335020492018-03-21T10:55:02.637-07:002018-03-21T10:55:02.637-07:00Alfred Differ:
While you watch these things, you...Alfred Differ:<br /><i><br /> While you watch these things, you have to suspect parts of your analytical mind. I CAN do that for the 1938 film, but once I come out of the audience trance, that part of me kicks in once again. It happened to me most recently with the Black Panther movie. Fun to watch. NOT fun to contemplate afterward.<br /></i><br /><br />Hey, I like action/adventure movies and can enjoy them on that basis alone...to a point. Some of the Marvel Movies (the second Captain America comes to mind) don't meet my threshold of plot that makes me care enough to enjoy the action. The original "Star Wars" just barely did.<br /><br />I can even appreciate Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" as a comic book adventure story, even though I cringe at the philosophy that drives the plot, and I have to remind myself that we're supposed to feel <b>good</b> about the ending.<br />LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-42934886476997565932018-03-21T10:29:31.737-07:002018-03-21T10:29:31.737-07:00@LarryHart | Germany's prosperity isn't th...@LarryHart | Germany's prosperity isn't the result of them being a net positive exporter even though they might think it is so. They do well mostly because of their internal trade. The vast majority of prosperity in any nation comes from what they do among themselves within their borders.<br /><br />One guess for where I learned that. 8)Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-43997935624190858552018-03-21T10:23:57.458-07:002018-03-21T10:23:57.458-07:00@Paul SB | I completely agree with your view of th...@Paul SB | I completely agree with your view of the Ultimatum Game. Stakes matter. Relevance matters. Skin In The Game matters. Generalizing from their results is a risky thing open to easy objections. A $100 phone card is moderately useful to some of us in the US, but a huge deal to people who make $10/day.<br /><br />Your right-wing bastard is missing an important point besides the ‘I can do it so you all can too’ nonsense. The price of a car doesn’t depend on what it cost to manufacture. It depends on what people want for it. There is a bid-ask spread on everything. The company making the car is going to start with an ask price above their cost for obvious reasons, but a downstream dealer might not. She might have found a motivated seller who needed to get something off his lot.<br /><br />Once one pays the costs of producing an item the money is sunk. It is best to ignore it or avoid being too emotionally attached to the number. What matters at that point is what price was can get for it. Play the game right and Price>Cost + [interest one might have earned with a safer investment]. Even so-called safe investments are risky, though, and one only has to win in the aggregate to do well. <br /><br /><i>Capitalists pretend that they are practical people focused on results, but step back, look outside their bubble and you will see they are just as much ideologues as the religious right who they manipulate and the lefties they despise.</i><br /><br />I’m inclined to agree.<br />Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-14476723605663736982018-03-21T10:11:31.546-07:002018-03-21T10:11:31.546-07:00@LarryHart | Sorry. Even the Errol Flynn version i...@LarryHart | Sorry. Even the Errol Flynn version is problematic. Robin’s band stole from thieves. Yes. His intent was to pay the King’s ransom. True. They are ALL thieves, though. Every one of them. The moral lesson in the story is that Prince John violated the nobleman’s code of ethics and should be punished. What the libertarians will point out is that the nobleman’s code is itself immoral by today’s bourgeois standards. It’s not enough that King Richard was ‘our’ nobleman thus one of the ‘good guys.’<br /><br />Not to worry about your movie, though. What I’m doing here is similar to the annoying folks who point out the flaws in every science fiction movie. While you watch these things, you have to suspect parts of your analytical mind. I CAN do that for the 1938 film, but once I come out of the audience trance, that part of me kicks in once again. It happened to me most recently with the Black Panther movie. Fun to watch. NOT fun to contemplate afterward.<br />Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-64051111622736393802018-03-21T10:04:05.917-07:002018-03-21T10:04:05.917-07:00@Duncan | While we could debate what is ‘found’ an...@Duncan | While we could debate what is ‘found’ and what is ‘created’, I don’t think it is worth much effort. We are likely to delve into principles to which each of us holds in an almost religious fashion. Let’s just say that I CAN see the distinction you are making, but I think of it a bit like the distinction between fate and free will. What is what depends on your perspective.<br /><br />What I will point out is that wealth creators who claim they get to keep it all are delusional. They are doing pretty good if they keep about 2%. Most of the value they create with an excellent innovation goes to the people acquiring it from them when they buy it or to the people who copy the idea and innovate on it when they compete with them.<br /><br />Also, a company with no salesmen dies. You all create the products on the floor, but you can’t do that for a decent living if someone doesn’t sell the stuff. The modern corporation is like an animal in the sense that it needs all its parts to function properly. It might get along without some of them as a degraded competitor, but what it can tolerate depends a great deal on the ecosystem around it.<br /><br />Oh… one principle about found and created that I will mention is this. The world has many of us advocating each nuance. I think it best that we all continue to do so and that no one in particular wins that debate. I don’t think it is clear who is actually correct, so a mixed strategy is the best option for this game right now.<br />Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-33699374744058644642018-03-21T06:24:45.495-07:002018-03-21T06:24:45.495-07:00Paul SB:
Being a typical, right-wing bastard, she...Paul SB:<br /><i><br />Being a typical, right-wing bastard, she insisted that anyone could do the same thing if they were "smart" like she was. I wanted to smack her.<br /></i><br /><br />You tell this story to emphasize that she was already privileged enough to spend time and effort that others didn't have available. But I also note that right-wingers often conflate "Anyone could do this" with "<b>Every</b>one could do this." A lottery winner can't reasonably claim an expectation that everyone should just win the lottery like they did. Likewise, Germany likes to make the ridiculous claim that all other countries have to do is to become net-exporters like they are. We like to think in a positive-sum manner, but not every situation works that way.<br />LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-76169580976267900112018-03-21T06:18:16.749-07:002018-03-21T06:18:16.749-07:00Alfred Differ:
Always remember that Robin Hood wa...Alfred Differ:<br /><i><br />Always remember that Robin Hood was a nobleman. He was a 'good guy' because he stole for a particular group of people,<br /></i><br /><br />Just remember that the most famous Robin Hood movie--the 1938 Errol Flynn version--skewed the narrative so that the funds Robin's band stole were actually misappropriated in the first place. Prince John collected extra taxes to pay King Richard's ransom, and then kept the money for himself and his cronies, and Robin liberated the money to use for its truly intended purpose. Libertarians who root against <b>that</b> Robin Hood really show that they value property over justice.<br /><br />I realize that other versions of the legend are not quite so black-and-white, but as that is one of my favorite movies, I'm willing to cut it a lot of slack. <br />LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-49710493276294754202018-03-21T06:11:39.887-07:002018-03-21T06:11:39.887-07:00Winter7:
But I do not know. I'm not aware of ...Winter7:<br /><i><br />But I do not know. I'm not aware of the Democratic Party connections with the billionaires.<br /></i><br /><br />A billionaire (J.B. Pritzger) just won the Democratic primary for the governor's race in Illinois. He will go up against sitting Republican billionaire governor Bruce Rauner, who essentially bought the last election with his own money.<br /><br />There's much understandable complaint on the D side as to "If billionaires are the problem, why are we running one ourselves?" I'm willing to cut Pritzger more slack. I see it as "It takes a billionaire to beat a billionaire."<br /><br />Wealth functions as a kind of super-power, enabling its possessor to accomplish goals that normal people cannot. I don't think of wealth in and of itself as a reason to vote against (or for) a candidate. The question is whether he uses his powers for good or for evil.<br />LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-38737836472713599472018-03-21T06:06:43.393-07:002018-03-21T06:06:43.393-07:00Paul SB:
The Grinch aspect has been really on dis...Paul SB:<br /><i><br />The Grinch aspect has been really on display since the current administration took power.<br /></i><br /><br />As I said before, during that first Christmas season when Trump wasn't yet in the White House, and it was possible to imagine that the weight of responsibility of the office might impress itself upon him, the refrain going through my head was:<br /><br /><i><br />And what happened then? Well, in Whoville, they say<br />That the Trumpster's small hands grew three sizes that day.<br /></i><br /><br />Would that 'twere so.<br />LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-6269358791574502602018-03-21T05:08:08.173-07:002018-03-21T05:08:08.173-07:00TCB,
Nice, but where was this guy when Draft-Dodg...TCB,<br /><br />Nice, but where was this guy when Draft-Dodging W was running? These fat cats always claim to be "real men" - a meme that most people associate with the military, but they are mostly draft dodgers, and as soon as they get into office they cut budgets for veterans and even salaries for the troops (but not so much the officers). Yet people still fall for it, and virulently. Once the association between the Party and the military has congealed in many people's minds, no amount of fact will dislodge it. Yet another case where the Sunk Cost Effect reigns.<br /><br />That is not to say that your suggestion is not a good one. If I were in D.C. or could afford to fly out there, I would do it. Hell, I would get a projector and shine the image up on the side of the Washington Monument or some such obvious location - though I would probably be risking arrest on some trumped-up charge.Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-20095287412767130462018-03-21T05:00:51.503-07:002018-03-21T05:00:51.503-07:00Alfred,
While I appreciate you pointing out one o...Alfred,<br /><br />While I appreciate you pointing out one of my contributions, I hope you realize that the Ultimatum Game has the same problem. When the stakes are as low as they usually are, there will be people who will accept unfair offers because they aren't taking it very seriously. Offer them such raw deal on financing a car or a house and they will walk away from it (if they understand how they are being ripped off - most people don't and don't have time to learn about it in our high-stress, helter-skelter work culture).<br /><br />I knew a woman ages ago who decided that car prices gave way too much profit to the dealers and felt like they were all rip-off artists, so she decided on what car she wanted, found out what it cost to manufacture the car, added $1000 and started calling dealers with that amount as an offer, set in stone (and she was stubborn enough that not even the slickest professional liar - a.k.a. salesman - could get her to budge a penny on the price). After calling over 100 dealers she finally found one willing to make the deal. She was rich enough to have enough money to pay cash so she didn't have to pay any interest. Then she had to get a buddy (not me) to drive her 80 miles to where she found someone willing to make the deal. Being a typical, right-wing bastard, she insisted that anyone could do the same thing if they were "smart" like she was. I wanted to smack her. If she thought more like an epidemiologist and less like an ideologue she would have to admit that she was born to a level of advantage and privilege that most people don't have, and even if other people had the idea they would be unlikely to actually do it because they were working three jobs just to stay in debt while trying to raise their unwanted pregnancy their boyfriends left them with when they dashed across the state border, leaving them to live in dangerous ghetto neighborhoods where they virtually need to escort their children to and from school in an armored car, only to have them mown down in school anyway.<br /><br />Capitalists pretend that they are practical people focused on results, but step back, look outside their bubble and you will see they are just as much ideologues as the religious right who they manipulate and the lefties they despise. Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-17828575712423941092018-03-21T04:43:47.449-07:002018-03-21T04:43:47.449-07:00Duncan,
I see your point about created wealth bei...Duncan,<br /><br />I see your point about created wealth being bound up with found wealth. It's basically a matter of having the capital to turn an idea into a product. If you were born dirt poor you can come up with the most brilliant ideas in the world and you will never be able to bring them to market because you just don't have the means - especially when every day of your life you are struggling just to avoid homelessness. Its the old catch-22 of "You have to have money to make money" and "You have to have experience to get experience." The deck is stacked heavily against the SES underdog in today's technological world. This is why taking ideas from people who were famous 200 years ago, or 2000 years ago, is often very inappropriate and can even be deadly. Tally up the percentage of people who died from factory wastes and air pollution before the Clean Air Act was created in 1976 and the their families that government should never be allowed to interfere with business. Now count the number of people who die every year from colon cancer because they can't get healthy food in their neighborhoods (places referred to here as "food deserts") and tell them that they are responsible for their own miserable deaths. Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-19760085344668793362018-03-21T03:18:40.177-07:002018-03-21T03:18:40.177-07:00A NC Congressional candidate puts the parade in pe...<a href="https://i.imgur.com/glFDwNO.jpg" rel="nofollow">A NC Congressional candidate puts the parade in perspective.</a><br /><br />Might be good to print out for posters along the parade route.TCBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08153506222271955110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-24496312596817491742018-03-21T03:01:13.572-07:002018-03-21T03:01:13.572-07:00Hi Alfred
The difference is between "found we...Hi Alfred<br />The difference is between "found wealth" and "created wealth"<br /><br />I would argue that any wealth that we "create" is so totally bound up with the "found wealth" that the creator claiming ALL of that wealth is inherently unfair<br /><br />In a company the product is created by engineers and the shop floor workers - salesmen are necessary but they don't "create" the income or even the profit from their sales duncan cairncrosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14153725128216947145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62318215890254901262018-03-20T23:15:49.775-07:002018-03-20T23:15:49.775-07:00@winter7 | Even with option #2, you'll get dif...@winter7 | Even with option #2, you'll get different answers from us depending on whether we work for companies or own our own that we built. Even among the worker-bees there is some variation. Working for a small company is different than working for a large one. Look at some of the responses from people here who feel they were effectively raped by their large employers. There is a good chance that what they call 'justice' is different from my definition.<br /><br />Paul SB has a good point about these experiments. If you use small $$ values in the 'game' and who gets what depends a lot on luck, you'll get something different than when the players believe another player is abusing them. There is a game the behavioral economists like to use called the Ultimatum Game because it shows how some people are willing to take a loss just to punish someone who isn't playing fair by their sense of what 'justice' means.<br /><br />Also, Larry pointed out that Ayn Rand followers are a little different. That is definitely true. However, many other Libertarians will side with them when thinking about Robin Hood. Always remember that Robin Hood was a nobleman. He was a 'good guy' because he stole for a particular group of people, but that is what most noblemen do. They are mostly thieves, but each of us get 'our own' to use against the others. It's really a kind of protection racket and the thieves will quietly collude when they realize the win-win portion of the system. Those who don't collude should be killed off by those who are willing. You'll see some of the same dynamics going on in your country. Just swap 'nobleman' with the people who run the cartels. Our organized crime folks understand this game too. So... Libertarians might easily take a dim view of Robin Hood.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-53172597905071033302018-03-20T21:53:13.712-07:002018-03-20T21:53:13.712-07:00 ¡Eat beets! ¡For a long time I suspected that thi... ¡Eat beets! ¡For a long time I suspected that this plant is full of powerful antioxidants!<br />A plant more added to the list of plants that make us smarter.<br />Link:<br /><br />https://phys.org/news/2018-03-vegetable-compound-key-role-beeting.html<br /><br />Winter7<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-3859379840746672442018-03-20T21:36:29.931-07:002018-03-20T21:36:29.931-07:00Paul SB:
Sometimes I wonder if both the GOP and th...<br />Paul SB:<br />Sometimes I wonder if both the GOP and the Democratic Party have an agenda to benefit only the rich. The difference, I suppose, is that Republicans benefit sinister and malignant billionaires and Democrats benefit multimillionaires who are just greedy. But I do not know. I'm not aware of the Democratic Party connections with the billionaires. If that problem exists, then, the citizens should demand from the democratic leaders an explanation of that crime.<br /><br />Winter7Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-19147019528244305982018-03-20T21:32:14.383-07:002018-03-20T21:32:14.383-07:00Larry,
We can find a lot of Sneetch as well as Za...Larry,<br /><br />We can find a lot of Sneetch as well as Zax there, to say nothing of Grinch. The Grinch aspect has been really on display since the current administration took power. I can't think of a Dr. Seuss analog for the more democratically-inclined D- and E/O-types. The Cat in the Hat seems to combine both, but with a higher E score, while Thing 1 and Thing 2 seem like the opposite. <br /><br />Having said that, though, you do have to admit that there is some snobbery and stubbornness to be found on the other side of the aisle, too, but it's not nearly so pervasive. Sneetchiness is practically the defining feature of the T-type, while Zaxish behavior is the foundational symptom of the S-type. (D-types, OTOH, suffer from impatience, and E/O-types from being too willing to compromise. What does this sound like? Bernie Bros and Clintonians).<br /> Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-47837973465697856542018-03-20T21:22:58.116-07:002018-03-20T21:22:58.116-07:00Larry,
No, not seriously. I can't stand coffe...Larry,<br /><br />No, not seriously. I can't stand coffee, I've never cared much for tea, so my primary caffeine source has always been soda. Many aspects of my health improved dramatically when I went off the bubble water, and I seem to have just missed getting diabetes. However, I never would have kicked that habit with the work stress I was living with for the previous 14 years. I'm not making much money now, but I'm in much better shape for it. I have seen work stress do pretty horrendous things to perfectly decent human beings who just weren't lucky enough to be born into the Executive Caste and weren't dishonest enough to try to claw their way into it.<br /><br />Luis,<br /><br />Remember that there were two Zaxen - the north-going Zax and the south-going Zax. There's witless stubbornness and tenacious group-think on both sides, R and D. If the Dems were truly our saviors, they would have at least tried to reverse the damage done by Reagan's tax apocalypse - and I know some of them have tried and were stymied by the south-going Zax. When you are being ravaged by a mad elephant, you need to get an elephant gun, or at least an atlatl. You might not have to actually shoot the thing, scare it off. The donkeys have been too distracted fighting some of the fights while ignoring some of the more necessary ones. If they really want to help our floundering minorities as well as majority poor, they would take W.E.B. du Bois more seriously, instead of whacking us with Martin Luther King all the time. No offense intended to MLK - he was really important - but Du Bois understood that in the long run the right to vote wouldn't amount to a whole lot as long as the powers-that-be can corrupt the government into making the rich richer and the poor poorer. This is exactly what has happened since St. Reagan, and Democratic administrations haven't even slowed it down.Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-77209555686680534512018-03-20T21:06:17.026-07:002018-03-20T21:06:17.026-07:00Paul SB:
These two types make for a pretty unholy...Paul SB:<br /><i><br />These two types make for a pretty unholy alliance, as the T-types look down their noses at the S-types, who they find so easy to manipulate to their own advantage. The S-types, inclined to obsessive/compulsive thinking, rabidly support their leadership, who are mostly the T-types who are laughing at their own followers to their offices.<br /></i><br /><br />So, more "Sneetches" than "Zax", eh?<br />LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-84765346183661456532018-03-20T20:42:43.989-07:002018-03-20T20:42:43.989-07:00Paul SB:
Hooo. I get it. You say that the Republic...Paul SB:<br />Hooo. I get it. You say that the Republicans are a Zax that will keep the nation stagnant while the rest of the world continues to advance after major trade agreements and great scientific advances. The Republicans are the immovable Zax who stole Christmas; the national budget; Freedom and ... Everything.<br />¡Time to dinner!<br /><br />Winter7<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com