tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post7464009122529621018..comments2024-03-27T23:12:08.917-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Broadening our horizons: from negotiating and diversity... to solace regarding viruses.David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-25519199488712815592020-12-26T12:56:08.032-08:002020-12-26T12:56:08.032-08:00... aaaanndd just as I posted that comment, this l...... aaaanndd just as I posted that comment, this little incitement and encouragement to "Cross The Rubicon" and declare martial law, & start with the mass-murder of political opponents, comes across my Twitter timeline: <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><a href="https://twitter.com/kelliwardaz/status/1340475397666836480?s=20" rel="nofollow">Tweet from Kelli Ward: </a><br /><br />Mr. President <br />@realDonaldTrump<br /> - we are with you in #Arizona. We are working every avenue to stop this coup & to stop our Republic from crumbing. Patriots are united. Those who are against us are exposing themselves. #Liberty & #freedom are on the line. #CrossTheRubicon <br />@GenFlynn<br /><br />(Hope the embed code works, because this is not some internet troll rando spanking it on a Discord chat, but an honest-to-god GOP party chair and two-time Senatorial candidate.)<br /><br />There have to be consequences for Inciting Sedition. If there are no consequences, no accountability, this will only get worse.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10790002907275266162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-86937144595700089952020-12-26T12:49:34.598-08:002020-12-26T12:49:34.598-08:00After the onward...
But yes. Very well-said, Davi...After the onward...<br /><br />But yes. Very well-said, David. And worrisome. <br />Our biggest danger is that the xenophobic hate of the West being riled in China... utterly baseless in the case of the USA... could go out of control.<br /><br />We need to volubly remind China that across 4000 years they only ever had one "friend." Another nation - an equal - who REPEATEDLY came to China's aid, asking nothing in return.<br /><br />But onward to next blog.<br /><br />onwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-86504276157408283122020-12-26T12:41:33.181-08:002020-12-26T12:41:33.181-08:00"Point being, I agree it's not as simple ...<br /><i>"Point being, I agree it's not as simple as economics, but it's also not as simple as nerd-hatred."<br /><br />Yes... but nerd and fact-use hatred must be paramount, lest facts be used to demolish racism, climate denialism, supply side and other cult catechisms.</i><br /><br />There certainly is that strain of Trump cultism/right-wing rage, and it is a particularly loud and obnoxious one. I have given up trying to reason with, understand, or be kind & gentle to those who dehumanize entire classes of people. And yeah, I know - the whole "I am intolerant of intolerance" meme is one with which I am familiar. It has become a cliché, the type of thing the guitar-strumming hippie teacher in Beavis & Butthead would have airily declaimed, right before he got kicked in the harbls. <br /><br />The tangle that confronts is that while there are a larger-than-we-are-comfortable-admitting number of our fellow citizens who are so angry & damaged that they would gleefully take any opportunity to bully & stomp on vulnerable groups ... there are also Trump supporters who fit into the category described here: <br /><br /><i>I work with a Trump supporter who is otherwise the nicest sort of guy you could expect--the way Tacitus used to describe his Republican neighbors who would give you the shirt off their backs if you're in trouble. This is a fellow IT professional in a metropolitan area. Hardly the type who has spent his life with deep-seated hatred of nerds. And yet, he was all indignant about how poorly the Democrats treated Brett Kavanaugh, and he's been all in for Trump.</i><br /><br />These are the people who are reach-able. Indeed, if the center continues to disintegrate as it has since 1990, we are going to have to pretty much do triage on our society, to try to salvage people who still have a core of decency from going along for the ride with people who seem to represent the stuff they've been convinced to believe in. <br /><br />I've worked in Russia, after the collapse. In Ethiopia, where the country continues to splinter, and my former students and colleagues send me emails containing phrases like "mass graves" and "systematic atrocities." Also in South Sudan, Colombia, Peru, Myanmar ... I have become way too acquainted with the reality of what so many right-wing Internet Tough Guys screech about: civil war. <br /><br />I keep thinking about the beginning chapters of "The Guns of August." Where a generation of Very Smart People thought they could control the anger, fear & hate they whipped up into a frenzy ... only to discover that societal inertia does exist. The last days before the war, French, German and British diplomats ran around, frantically trying to stave off that which they had set in motion, breaking down into tears or drinking themselves into stupors when the truth became apparent. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10790002907275266162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-11094063102803436912020-12-26T12:22:05.208-08:002020-12-26T12:22:05.208-08:00onward
onwardonward<br /><br />onwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-826088424544493642020-12-26T07:35:14.961-08:002020-12-26T07:35:14.961-08:00What a maroon. Trump should have been fired in hi...What a maroon. Trump should have been fired in his first week in office, not because of policy or corruption, but simply because he is incapable of understanding the basics of the job.<br /><br />https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Maps/Dec25.html#item-2<br /><i><br />The President largely appears to have given up hope that lawsuits will save him, however, and has turned his focus to stealing the election on January 6, when Congress will count the electoral votes. Apparently, Trump has persuaded himself that the weak spot in the process—and thus his area of opportunity—is the vice-president's reading and announcing of the final results. On Thursday, it was reported that Trump recently met with VP Mike Pence in an effort to persuade Pence to declare Trump president by fiat on the 6th. Pence explained that was not possible, which apparently left the Donald "confused" as to why.<br /><br />Either Trump is lying about being "confused," or else he's a nitwit. There is zero chance that the fellows who wrote the Constitution would have created a loophole that allowed a single person—a person who, by the way, might well have been on the ballot themselves—to choose a president. And there is zero chance that if they had left that loophole, it would have gone unexploited until 2020. There has been plenty of partisanship, and there have been plenty of hotly contested elections, in U.S. history, and if—to take just one example—VP John C. Breckinridge could have awarded the presidency to someone other than Abraham Lincoln in 1861 (like, say, second-place EV finisher John C. Breckinridge), you can bet your bottom dollar he would have done it.<br /></i><br /><br />Or if, say, then-VP Al Gore could have declared himself the winner of the 2000 election?<br />Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-87149643257532515812020-12-25T14:35:26.761-08:002020-12-25T14:35:26.761-08:00Good discussion here (https://www.npr.org/podcasts...Good discussion here (https://www.npr.org/podcasts/381444253/pri-the-takeaway) on Trump and the rise of populism with solutions:<br />1) Keeping authoritarian demagogues from winning elections (hopefully by)<br />2) Providing economic opportunities for populist (socially-conservative white people) supporters.<br />3) Making government more effective (including reducing the number of presidential appointees: ~4k. Most western democracies have maybe 100 appointees) and turning more government functions over to trained experts.<br /><br />@ Alfred: I don't think you can eliminate the feudal attractor, but I suspect you CAN channel it into useful (or at least less-harmful) channels. <br />(Don't know what those might be, except maybe sports teams and other smaller, local organizations. Drunken soccer rowdies rioting beat large armies fighting wars.) Also from what I've read, our concept of "problem elimination" is a rather American approach to social problems, and frequently tends not to work completely and/or has negative, unintended consequences. I believe that a better approach for many social problems is "problem melioration/harm reduction". Hopefully, as we continue to learn more about how individuals and groups REALLY act (and not just as we'd like them to), we'll learn how to do this better, and also how to effectively deal with the deep resistance many people have with this approach...<br /><br />Happy Holidays, Everyone!<br />Keith Halperinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09841504651752178493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-22924350407226518712020-12-25T07:11:03.564-08:002020-12-25T07:11:03.564-08:00Dr Brin:
LarryHart, you got some cool wife! An ex...Dr Brin:<br /><i><br />LarryHart, you got some cool wife! An example to you all!<br /></i><br /><br />Your books played a part in our courtship back in the 90s. At the time, I had just re-read <i>The Postman</i>, and I lent it to her to read on a trip she was taking to California. A book that took me a month to finish, she read on the flight. :)<br /><br />Anyway, while that was one of my favorite books, it had never occurred to me to seek out other novels by the same author. That's exactly what she did, though. And then <b>she</b> introduced <b>me</b> to the Uplift series.<br /><br />The rest is history--25 years this coming summer. Some <b>countries</b> don't last that long.Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-70033510760621347892020-12-25T05:45:11.685-08:002020-12-25T05:45:11.685-08:00I'd really reaaaaly like to see AOC push an in...I'd really reaaaaly like to see AOC push an investigation of ES&S.TCBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08153506222271955110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-40677697615041210062020-12-25T03:58:10.573-08:002020-12-25T03:58:10.573-08:00I wish you a Merry Christmas, luck and health!I wish you a Merry Christmas, luck and health!Der Ogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00977602334642769985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-80336260833851672252020-12-24T21:28:16.451-08:002020-12-24T21:28:16.451-08:00poor white loyalty to plantations lords
Yah. I wa...<i>poor white loyalty to plantations lords</i><br /><br />Yah. I was thinking of Twain as well.<br /><br />I suspect this is one of the long term alterations to us resulting form the feudal attractor. It will take a while to undo. More than a generation. Probably three or more. That means my job is to buy time for the next generation to improve things a bit. Don't kick anyone as though they are beneath me.<br /><br />Heh. Kinda dark, but it's still a decent Christmas message. Play nice.<br /><br />... and with that...<br /><br />May there be more joy for you all in this season than you anticipate. Next year too.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-40810618973893559012020-12-24T21:12:43.979-08:002020-12-24T21:12:43.979-08:00If you aren't able to bully someone, that mean...<i>If you aren't able to bully someone, that means you are at the bottom of the SES ladder. Right? That sucks, therefore {fill in irrational response here}.</i><br /><br />Most other primates have hierarchical social structures. I would not be surprised if we had instinctive tendencies that way.<br /><br />In one of Harry Turtledove's novels one of the characters remarks that the reason America isn't as anti-semitic as Europe is that Americans can look down on blacks, so they don't need to look down on Jews.<br /><br />I would like to point out that bullying is still around in schools. It's more subtle than a lot of what we suffered, because physical bullying isn't tolerated as much (with some exemptions for athletes, sadly). OTOH, social bullying is if anything more prevalent through the medium of always-connected social media. I suspect that a great deal of the stress that today's young people are feeling is because they have no way to disconnect. (Not answering a text within a certain time period is interpreted as shunning, for example.)<br />Robertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-11088711998835370642020-12-24T20:24:19.925-08:002020-12-24T20:24:19.925-08:00My sister made me a covid mask that says, "Do...My sister made me a covid mask that says, "Doctrine is the Mindkiller"<br /><br />Happiness is having a few other souls in this world who truly understand you.<br /><br />Joyeux Noelscidatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04992209167553267488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-49305434156061775282020-12-24T19:58:57.583-08:002020-12-24T19:58:57.583-08:00Alfred, Mark Twain explained poor white loyalty to...Alfred, Mark Twain explained poor white loyalty to plantations lords as due there being someone lower they could kick.<br /><br />LarryHart, you got some cool wife! An example to you all!<br /><br />Felis N and thrive.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-28331954130811209062020-12-24T19:30:34.951-08:002020-12-24T19:30:34.951-08:00My suspicion regarding the change in our tolerance...My suspicion regarding the change in our tolerance of bullying is that we've produced something similar to an autoimmune response.<br /><br />If you aren't able to bully someone, that means you are at the bottom of the SES ladder. Right? That sucks, therefore {fill in irrational response here}.<br /><br />If you pick on someone/anyone, you aren't at the bottom. All is well enough with the world.<br /><br />The 'autoimmune' nature of the response is that it isn't needed. There is no need for a defense, but we are trained by generations of stress experiences to expect a need. <br /><br />If there are epigenetic switches to set for this, they've been set for at least 6,000 years. Thing might not be as bad as this, but we probably need three generations to go by before the oldest of us aren't stressing the youngest, thus maintaining the cycle.<br /><br />Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-72609192512616089512020-12-24T19:10:26.362-08:002020-12-24T19:10:26.362-08:00My wife's family never does the "Wait unt...My wife's family never does the "Wait until Christmas morning" thing, but opens their presents on Christmas Eve. Well, my lovely wife got me <i>The Escape</i> <b>and</b> <i>The Ancient Ones</i>. How did she know? :)<br /><br />...and to all, a good night.<br /><br /><br /><br />Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-4770254536483699312020-12-24T19:09:05.539-08:002020-12-24T19:09:05.539-08:00And you are both welcome here! Your disagreements ...And you are both welcome here! Your disagreements asdd richeness to our stew. And dissent and criticism! By grownups who argue fairly. Though not those who try to piss in the stew or defecate in our room. Fortunately those are rare. I haven't seen one in a while here. But let me know if you see a post that qualifies. I'll give one warning and then tune the spam filter.<br /><br />Meanwhile, peace and joy to you all! Thrive and persevere and here's to the third decade of ths millennium being far better for us all, and for civilization, than the first two.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-55350545795312937622020-12-24T18:09:55.446-08:002020-12-24T18:09:55.446-08:00Keith Halperin:
@ Larry Hart: It's anecdotal,...Keith Halperin:<br /><i><br />@ Larry Hart: It's anecdotal, but my understanding is that (at least here in the US), South Asians of all types get along pretty well.<br /></i><br /><br />In case this wasn't clear, that was my point. Indians and Pakistanis may see each other as enemies over there, but here in Chicago, they live and prosper side by side. That example was a counterexample to Americans preferring to slit their own throats than to do that.<br /><br />* * *<br /><br />Pachydermis2:<br /><i><br />Although I find many aspects of your world view to be wrong headed in assorted ways ...<br /></i><br /><br />Likewise.<br /><br /><i><br />Sincere best wishes<br /></i><br /><br />Likewise.Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-35057659273650027792020-12-24T17:54:09.938-08:002020-12-24T17:54:09.938-08:00KH... many of those 74 million were holding their ...KH... many of those 74 million were holding their noses... and maybe 10% I betcha were cheats where ED&S voting tabulators saved Mitch and Collins... but yeah.<br /><br />Robert, yes, in middle class America school bullying certainly appears to have plummeted. Our kids never even saw any of what you and I experienced.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-37987411837949703882020-12-24T17:12:43.563-08:002020-12-24T17:12:43.563-08:00@ Scidata, unfortunately, those 74 million voted f...@ Scidata, unfortunately, those 74 million voted for Trump. <br />Assuming an additional 10% of that number basically support what Trump says but for some reason didn't vote for him, then we're saying ~25% of the US population supports an authoritarian, anti-democratic, corrupt scoundrel. Keith Halperinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09841504651752178493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-89965932633465584662020-12-24T17:05:14.518-08:002020-12-24T17:05:14.518-08:00The fact that I admire Americans generally doesn&#...<i>The fact that I admire Americans generally doesn't mean that I am blind to the ignorance, cowardice, and depravity of some. I suspect they number much less than 74 million though.</i><br /><br />And this is where I (as usual) quote fellow Canadian Peter Watts:<br /><br /><i>Edmund Burke once said that the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. I think that begs a question.<br /><br />If you do nothing, what makes you any fucking good?</i><br /><br />https://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=5370Robert Priornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-57166906187601862472020-12-24T16:55:11.404-08:002020-12-24T16:55:11.404-08:00the ability to openly persecute minorities
I thi...<i> the ability to openly persecute minorities </i><br /><br />I think this is getting closer.<br /><br />When I was young childhood bullying was a lot more open, and tolerated. A lot of the behaviour I see from the American right (and increasingly the Canadian right) resembled those not-missed schooldays. <br /><br />I don't know if the need to feel superior to someone is sufficient to explain the American (and increasingly the Canadian) right, but I get the feeling it's a big part of it.<br /><br />Robertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-65882694127278644712020-12-24T15:19:53.013-08:002020-12-24T15:19:53.013-08:00The fact that I admire Americans generally doesn&#...The fact that I admire Americans generally doesn't mean that I am blind to the ignorance, cowardice, and depravity of some. I suspect they number much less than 74 million though.scidatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04992209167553267488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-65256347506926790762020-12-24T15:11:04.992-08:002020-12-24T15:11:04.992-08:00"Point being, I agree it's not as simple ..."Point being, I agree it's not as simple as economics, but it's also not as simple as nerd-hatred."<br /><br />Yes... but nerd and fact-use hatred must be paramount, lest facts be used to demolish racism, climate denialism, supply side and other cult catechisms.<br /><br />Pachy, yes, enjoy the holidays... but stay wary. This fellow suggests NOW is when Pence could stage a soft counter coup, since starting Sunday, a 25th Amerndment temporary suspension of Trump would last till inauguration day. NOT gonna happen!<br /><br />https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/if-trump-uses-martial-law-pence-should-use-25th-amendment.html<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-40263668832179590992020-12-24T14:53:06.750-08:002020-12-24T14:53:06.750-08:00David, Larry and others
Although I find many aspe...David, Larry and others<br /><br />Although I find many aspects of your world view to be wrong headed in assorted ways (sometimes amusing, other times alarming) that won't keep me from wishing you all an excellent holiday season in whatever faith tradition, or none at all, brings you comfort. I hope that you have the privilege as I do, of seeing some next generation types appearing in 2D or 3D as circumstances allow to make it all worthwhile.<br /><br />It's been a hard year. Next year is not going to be a cakewalk either. So take a few days to relax and enjoy. We've made it this far together, more or less.<br /><br />Sincere best wishes<br /><br />PachyTacitushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17007086196578740689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-5826456946590936992020-12-24T14:42:52.277-08:002020-12-24T14:42:52.277-08:00@ Alfred: Thanks. Let's define "diversity...@ Alfred: Thanks. Let's define "diversity"- of whom, about what, where, and to what extent? In my own case, my family and I enjoy living in San Francisco in part because there are so many different types of people here and when we leave SF (Pre-COVID) to go to other more ethnically homogenous (aka, "whiter") homogenous parts of the Bay Area, we frequently comment on that and feel glad we live where we do. At the same time, virtually all of my friends are middle-class white people. Perhaps I'm a hypocrite (or perhaps I contain multitudes)...<br /><br />@ Scidata: We Americans have been-, are-, and can be kind, giving, and good people. At the same time, there are at least 74 million adult Americans who (however kind and giving they may be in other aspects of their lives), are NOT good people and are a shame and embarrassment to the rest of America and the world. I fear it will take many years and much work to become the "good guys" again...<br /><br />@ Larry Hart: It's anecdotal, but my understanding is that (at least here in the US), South Asians of all types get along pretty well.<br /><br />Of course poor, working class, and many middle-class feel the "*system" has been rigged against them because it HAS (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_mobility_in_the_United_States#:~:text=US%20social%20mobility%20has%20either,7%25%20to%20experience%20downward%20mobility, https://www.pnas.org/content/117/1/251), the folks just above them fear the loss of their entitlements/privileges because they feel it's all a zero-sum game, and because it's a lot easier to "punch down" than "punch up" we see right-wing populist rage.<br /><br />While I don't believe it's possible to remove all bases for malcontentment, <br />I do believe it can be substantially reduced, possibly with these two proposals:<br />1) A multi-year stint of universal, national service combined with post-secondary education and a skilled-trade apprenticeship program.<br />2) A multi-generational plan to repair and upgrade our infrastructure, restore our degraded environment, and work to make us maximally energy-sustainable, while creating decently paid and benefited work for anyone who wants it: a "Green WPA."<br /><br />Keith<br /><br /><br />*Here defined as "social mobility".<br /><br /> Keith Halperinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09841504651752178493noreply@blogger.com