tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post6951834557425353430..comments2024-03-29T00:39:31.629-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Seeking solutions - not sanctimonyDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger88125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-16883679963560727062021-10-11T10:21:35.678-07:002021-10-11T10:21:35.678-07:00@Pappenheimer
I think you gave the wrong timestam...@Pappenheimer<br /><br />I think you gave the wrong timestamp. It's actually at 0:50 and 5:44.tvindyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09944046580562714104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-50718900686483793882021-10-09T16:54:24.666-07:002021-10-09T16:54:24.666-07:00onward
onwardonward<br /><br />onwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-59213465415487125902021-10-09T12:24:59.480-07:002021-10-09T12:24:59.480-07:00Re: coal-powered spacecraft:
I had to go looking ...Re: coal-powered spacecraft:<br /><br />I had to go looking - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnk25SnMelI is the ST:TOS blooper reel, at the 6:40 mark it shows how the Enterprise REALLY ran.Pappenheimernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-43208156272189370362021-10-09T11:19:19.269-07:002021-10-09T11:19:19.269-07:00SPOILERS for Apple TV's Foundation below.
...SPOILERS for Apple TV's Foundation below.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />David Brin said "In Asimov's day, The Foundation had retained "atomic power." So... the surrounding kingdoms used spaceships driven by... coal?"<br /><br />Wondered how this would be updated in the show. Perhaps the Anacreons will no longer have the Jump drive powered by a spaceship's miniature black hole? But, it appears that they may have never had it in the first place. The other alternative: perhaps the Empire runs on nuclear fusion? And this technology could be lost?<br /><br />@Robert: For all mankind is FANTASTIC. Two words: Moon colonies. And women astronauts in the 1970s.NoOnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08685249095572192084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-51476650206264970732021-10-09T10:44:50.971-07:002021-10-09T10:44:50.971-07:00Re: AppleTV+ - nothing has disappeared so far, hop...Re: AppleTV+ - nothing has disappeared so far, hoping it's like iTunes, which keeps your content purchases list forever (well at least 5 years in my case). I've only watched GREYHOUND, some comedy, and FOUNDATION so far. I don't work or shill for Apple, and I'm still bummed at Jobs over the Lisa :)<br /><br />Re: I have no personal loyalty to Asimov, I just liked the humanism and friendly computer (Tandy) efforts. Never even read Tolkien, if that's what the Return of the King reference was about. "Foundation" enabled me to escape a life of delusional romanticism - forever grateful.<br /><br />Re: Gaia - I'm a computational psychohistory guy for anyone who cares. I like to think Asimov was headed in that direction too before he died. Gaia, mentalics, magic, supermen, even the word 'belief' all give me peptic distress. OGH largely has a somewhat similar view (I think), and this is his blog, so yeah.<br /><br />Re: water clocks and sundials - methinks one of the writers liked AGORA, the Hypatia movie. I'm really hoping that one or more of them read FOUNDATION'S TRIUMPH, or at least LOST HORIZON, or even THE LITTLE PRINCE.scidatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07152319593457629592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-52373093897301652742021-10-09T10:34:19.666-07:002021-10-09T10:34:19.666-07:00Dr Brin:
In Asimov's day, The Foundation had ...Dr Brin:<br /><i><br />In Asimov's day, The Foundation had retained "atomic power." So... the surrounding kingdoms used spaceships driven by... coal?<br /></i><br /><br />Wasn't there a mention in the original novel about what sort of power the Four Kingdoms had been relegated to? I seem to remember a throwaway line which confirms Hardin's suspicions that the kingdoms have lost the knowledge base for atomics.Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-89756047418244228572021-10-09T09:38:15.621-07:002021-10-09T09:38:15.621-07:00Pappenheimer to Dr Brin:
not disagreeing, but the...Pappenheimer to Dr Brin:<br /><i><br />not disagreeing, but the rise of eunuchs in government was also noted in late Roman (i.e. Byzantine) times<br /></i><br /><br />Also, robots were not part of the empire when Asimov was writing original trilogy.Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-57951080480077362992021-10-09T09:24:14.631-07:002021-10-09T09:24:14.631-07:00SPOILERS!!!!!
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In order for Found...SPOILERS!!!!!<br /><br />=======<br />=======<br /><br />In order for Foundation's Triumph to be part of it, Hari must be alive.<br /><br />A MAJOR plot emlement they could have and should have exploites - that I include in FT - is making the Foundation colonists less a Cult of Seldon and more the best minds in the Galaxy and hence many of them deeply resentful over forced exile. <br /><br />Also arguments over water clocks and sundials? Are you kidding me? SHould argue over what kind of Tutorial Obelisks to land on planets.<br /><br />In Asimov's day, The Foundation had retained "atomic power." So... the surrounding kingdoms used spaceships driven by... coal?<br />Only now....David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62724434441834277802021-10-09T08:29:27.128-07:002021-10-09T08:29:27.128-07:00Quick questions for those of you who obviously hav...Quick questions for those of you who obviously have Apple TV+ accounts:<br /><br />Do programmes disappear like they do on Netflix, or are they there for rewatching as desired?<br /><br />Is "For All Mankind" good? The trailers looked intriguing and the first episode was decent, but I know how deceptive trailers can be.<br /><br />Is what I see on the interface all the programming available? Is there a better way to navigate once you subscribe? <br /><br /><br />Reason for questions: I'm debating subscribing. I've never subscribed to cable TV or a streaming service before, so this feels like a big step. I've got a last-generation Apple TV that I bought to play my iTunes library in my living room. It seems to mostly work with Apple TV but sometimes restarts unexpectedly when too many layers deep into a menu.Robertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-49329156605548763522021-10-09T07:27:38.555-07:002021-10-09T07:27:38.555-07:00@scidata (who said) "If things go all Gaia-y ...@scidata (who said) "If things go all Gaia-y in the end, then I'll lament the lost opportunity accordingly."<br /><br />Well, things will go Gaia-y in the end and that's to be expected right? But, I take your point. I'm very worried about the show for two reasons: (i) the science aspect is like reading a math article in the New Yorker. In other words, awful; (ii) Am really concerned that the mentalics aspect will go into faith and belief (and religion in general) which would be all kinds of awful. There's a clear opportunity for the show to advance the idea that human evolution can proceed and this can allow us to become post-Cartesian (i.e. not trapped in isolated organisms). But this would have to be done very, very carefully by basically connecting the second Foundation psychologists with Gaia as Asimov himself did via Daneel. With Demerzel being shown as religious on the show (gag) though, I really worry. But, what can we expect, in these degenerate times (grin).NoOnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08685249095572192084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-54534002717095965302021-10-09T00:14:55.629-07:002021-10-09T00:14:55.629-07:00...which makes the story more compelling in some w......which makes the story more compelling in some ways than the original IMHO.<br /><br />Yeah. Propaganda of Return of the King.<br /><br /><br />If things go all Gaia-y in the end, then I'll lament the lost opportunity accordingly.<br /><br />But Gaia it's avtentic Asimov's concept. One he favoured himself.scimythnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-2144051077325101682021-10-08T18:19:17.960-07:002021-10-08T18:19:17.960-07:00not disagreeing, but the rise of eunuchs in govern...not disagreeing, but the rise of eunuchs in government was also noted in late Roman (i.e. Byzantine) times, probably due to increased Eastern Mediterranean influence. cf Narses and others - Wiki says the custom was introduced "after the adoption of the oriental royal court model by the Emperors Diocletian...and Constantine"Pappenheimernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-68163788391936333462021-10-08T15:46:08.799-07:002021-10-08T15:46:08.799-07:00Yeah the Belisarius was clear. WHat I assert is th...Yeah the Belisarius was clear. WHat I assert is that his empire has characteristice more like China than Rome, esp. when you include powerful eunchs (robots.)David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-53437271570646329912021-10-08T14:42:01.361-07:002021-10-08T14:42:01.361-07:00 Bel Riose = Belisarius; that makes Cleon II a sta... Bel Riose = Belisarius; that makes Cleon II a stand in for JustinianPappenheimernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-72080638788459405312021-10-08T12:58:40.523-07:002021-10-08T12:58:40.523-07:00Misspelling only made me realize "CLION"...Misspelling only made me realize "CLION" refers to the muse of history?David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-34865149131137683312021-10-08T11:12:09.010-07:002021-10-08T11:12:09.010-07:00scidata:
All of them, in all generations, are clo...scidata:<br /><i><br />All of them, in all generations, are clones of Cleon I. More interestingly, they're not dullards or figureheads, but rather active, vengeful, scary, and evil, which makes the story more compelling in some ways than the original IMHO.<br /></i><br /><br />Cleon II (<i>Foundation and Earth</i>) was no dullard. The novel described him as the Empire's last strong emperor. Which was the psychohistorical reason why General Bel Riose set his sights on outward conquest instead of inward intrigue.<br /><br />The "child emperor" in the time of Ling Chen and Hari Seldon was not a Cleon (IIRC).<br /><br />Also based on my recollection, Cleon I only appeared in the later prequel stories, in the time of young Hari Seldon.<br /><br />Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-34356172151025586412021-10-08T10:53:43.176-07:002021-10-08T10:53:43.176-07:00Re: "Clions"
Of course I meant Cleons. ...Re: "Clions"<br /><br />Of course I meant Cleons. I'm a programming geek -- CLion is a C/C++ IDE. Yup, C. Just because I adore Forth doesn't mean that I'm ignorant of mainstream languages. I was a professional Java teacher a quarter century ago, and a pro BASIC teacher long before that. It's like the scene at the end of QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER where Quigley guns down the bad guy with the Colt-45 the bad guy had just given him in a rigged duel. The dying bad guy is bewildered because Quigley had previously eschewed revolvers in favour of his extremely rifled long range weapon. Quigley says, "I said I had no use for them, I never said I didn't know how to use one."scidatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07152319593457629592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-14165350134703485532021-10-08T10:15:13.194-07:002021-10-08T10:15:13.194-07:00@Larry Hart re: Cleons
The TV series has modifie...@Larry Hart re: Cleons<br /><br />The TV series has modified the Clions bigly. They exist as 3 stages simultaneously: Brother Dawn (juvenile future emperor), Brother Day (adult current emperor), and Brother Dusk (aged previous emperor), plus perhaps a newborn and a soon-to-be erased very old one. All of them, in all generations, are clones of Cleon I. More interestingly, they're not dullards or figureheads, but rather active, vengeful, scary, and evil, which makes the story more compelling in some ways than the original IMHO.<br /><br />I do have some rising concerns about Salvor Hardin. She's becoming a bit too Bene Gesserit for my liking. Mentalics is at the outer edge of psychohistory. It has flummoxed me and others for many years (maybe even Asimov). And mentalic robots are several derivatives or integrals beyond that. However, I remain in the Clarke camp regarding magic. A TV series requires the use of shortcuts and metaphors, so I'm giving them a bit of slack at present. If things go all Gaia-y in the end, then I'll lament the lost opportunity accordingly.<br /><br />scidatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07152319593457629592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-48306386676213409982021-10-08T06:50:16.590-07:002021-10-08T06:50:16.590-07:00Our parties are public institutions and free to jo...<i> Our parties are public institutions and free to join…</i><br /><br />Public as in governmental? So does that mean that access to information and anti-discrimination laws apply to them? Federal/state civil service hiring standards? <br /><br />(Up here "public service" is a synonym for "civil service" ie. the bureaucracy that runs the government. If you work for a public institution such as a public school you are considered a government employee, even if you are not directly paid by the government, and subject to all government policies that relate to public servants.)Robertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1000780635716090202021-10-08T05:04:00.856-07:002021-10-08T05:04:00.856-07:00Given FitzRoy's devout nature, I don't thi...Given FitzRoy's devout nature, I don't think being referred to as an 'illegal wizard' would have sat well!Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-5489643668315387472021-10-08T04:59:21.768-07:002021-10-08T04:59:21.768-07:00scidata:
my hope is not for fidelity to Asimov...scidata:<br /><i><br />my hope is not for fidelity to Asimov's plot...<br /></i><br /><br />I wouldn't care about fidelity to the "extended universe" plot either. I would hope for some fidelity to the chain of events of the original trilogy, even if some specific story elements are altered. "Cleon I" perked up my radar because IIRC, in the original book, there was a pliable "child emperor at the time of Seldon's trial, and the whatever of public safety was running the show, which did seem important to the sweep of history.Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-20373504794121160552021-10-07T18:12:25.183-07:002021-10-07T18:12:25.183-07:00Bunch of needful responses:
LH: Republicans in ful...Bunch of needful responses:<br />LH: Republicans in full tilt Mark Twain mode, unable to bear the pain of admitting they’ve been fooled, they doubt, quadruple, milliontuple-down on nerd-hating rationalizations fed to them by AT&T… oops, OAN… and Fox.<br /><br />Robert, in UK & Canada you join a party and participate as a dues paying member of an explicit organization whose party conference is a private affair. Our parties are public institutions and free to join… but actually voting for the conference delegates and committee folks is so obscure that hardly anyone does. In many states, you can vote in whichever primary you choose or the best system… CA, has virtually eliminated primaries as establishers of which two people are chosen in the general election.<br />But in those states that still make you declare a party, dems who stupidly register dem in a GOP gerried district are just declaring: “I’m an idiot who won’t vote in the only election that counts.<br /><br />Robert FitzRow… huh!<br />Yeah, watching Foundation with some hopes.<br /><br />Treebeard… yeah I can tell it’s the real ent and the spam filter is set to let him though. In this case, again, actually pretty interesting!.... Followed by a conclusion of typical misanthropy. Want more of these retreats in favor of nature fellah? WITHOUT the accompanying mass death apocalypse in which YOU will likely be killed? Simple. Replace meat eating. Advance other technologies.<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-71100794036858073932021-10-07T15:39:00.603-07:002021-10-07T15:39:00.603-07:00Dr Brin:
Because of gerrymandering, Republican la...Dr Brin:<br /><i><br />Because of gerrymandering, Republican lawmakers only care about Republican voters in the primary and can ignore public opinion polls that massively support Biden's program.<br /></i><br /><br />Of course, but that still requires a good number of reliable Republican votes in the state. I mean, even here in Blue Illinois, Republicans generally get about 40% of the vote. I'm rhetorically wondering why they're so brand-loyal when Republicans in congress vote so much against the things they--the voters--want. <br /><br />Are they really that scared of "socialism"?Larry Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01058877428309776731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1631537070492784842021-10-07T14:02:08.681-07:002021-10-07T14:02:08.681-07:00Could some kind soul give me (or point me to) a si...Could some kind soul give me (or point me to) a simply explanation of what being a "registered Republican" means? I understand registering voters, but why is it important for the government to know which party a voter supports? Up here membership in a political party is separate from the election process (and party races are run by parties, not any kind of election commission).Robertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-54133900551894946052021-10-07T13:26:06.357-07:002021-10-07T13:26:06.357-07:00OT, but here's a curious historical note:
htt...OT, but here's a curious historical note:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0XNqHp6piw<br /><br />"Why weathermen were illegal wizards for 75 years."<br /><br />Robert FitzRoy was one of the first to use telegraphic data to make real-time weather maps, which made weather prediction possible. But the law had not caught up to the science, so by a still-standing anti-witchcraft law, FitzRoy was technically an illegal wizard.<br /><br />Robert FitzRoy also was the captain of the Beagle, which took Charles Darwin to the Galapagos, where Darwin deduced the theory of evolution by natural selection. <br /><br />So a weather wizard was involved in the discovery of evolution by natural selection. How curious!<br /> <br />I'm sending this email also to John Michael Greer. <br />Paradoctorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04821968120388981470noreply@blogger.com