tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post6456589227191166714..comments2024-03-29T00:39:31.629-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Fight Back Against One-Way Surveillance!David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-75678264987836594482014-02-11T05:50:52.151-08:002014-02-11T05:50:52.151-08:00Well I did my duty and joined the EFF petition.
J...Well I did my duty and joined the EFF petition.<br /><br />Just as I've joined in on many other online petitions and voted in every election.<br /><br />But I've become cynical about their potential.<br /><br />As has the nation...<br /><br />"A cynic is a romantic who's heart has been broken."<br /><br />Not sure where I heard that... but that's the state of the nation.<br /><br />The elites of both Parties have become rich... while the middle class has died.<br /><br />Yes, the Democrats are a little better...<br /><br />But their 'compromise' of supporting easy credit rather than a true sharing of the wealth produced in the last few decades has resulted in what in effect is a national 'company store'...<br /><br />And the actions of both parties since 2008 reflect their unwillingness to do anything or address any issue that their paymasters don't want addressed.<br /><br />This will not end well.<br /><br />Frankly you are totally correct about sousveillance. And while I know you're cranky, I don't how you stay as calm as you do trying to get people to wake up to its importance...<br /><br />Though I'm becoming very cranky myself regarding my own frustrations with getting attention for the micropayment.Tom Crowlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04444476865484424912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-69225071799967344932014-02-10T17:52:39.114-08:002014-02-10T17:52:39.114-08:00Hank, other than Steve Mann or U Toronto and Flori...Hank, other than Steve Mann or U Toronto and Florida's Froomkin, I seem to be Mr Sousveillance./ I hope that will change as more folks finally "get it".David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-5511502988253828792014-02-10T17:27:28.181-08:002014-02-10T17:27:28.181-08:00> Sousveillance is the answer
> to surveilla...> Sousveillance is the answer<br />> to surveillance.<br /><br />And is there an organization somewhere working on this?<br /><br />For extra value, one that hasn't yet been labeled terrierists?<br /><br />EFF sure, ACLU sure, my locally owned ISP damn sure.<br /><br />But after that?<br /><br />Seems like the only people who really tell us what's going on are the historians. And that 50-year lag time is a killer.Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62005463470153011312014-02-10T16:42:08.111-08:002014-02-10T16:42:08.111-08:00And I hate auto-correct!And I hate auto-correct!David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-83766191364028672402014-02-10T16:41:48.594-08:002014-02-10T16:41:48.594-08:00Tacitus and locus… I apologize.
I need a lower ...Tacitus and locus… I apologize. <br /><br /> I need a lower level and funnier snark - less fraught with moral hazard - to use when locum (or others) show unusual cogency and rise to what we all know to be his potential.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62889680832264520922014-02-10T14:43:44.755-08:002014-02-10T14:43:44.755-08:00David
I don't think locum is on any "pre...David<br /><br />I don't think locum is on any "prescripts" for mental illness. You probably don't think so either.<br /><br />Out of respect to the many, many folks who struggle with this burden perhaps this is a turn of phrase that could be retired.<br /><br />TacitusTacitushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17007086196578740689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-7754110817637551092014-02-10T11:44:50.052-08:002014-02-10T11:44:50.052-08:00Locum is taking his prescripts and supremely cogen...Locum is taking his prescripts and supremely cogent today. huzzah. <br /><br />Right on… there are those failure modes… plus a couple more. The potential for bullying by a majority of "little brothers" is inherently THE main failure mode of a truly transparent society. <br /><br />Or else the pleasure-based complacency of Brave New World. Not an iron boot in the face, but the "whatever" arm-wave of a population that is officially in charge, but indolent.<br /><br />To those (and others) I have an answer (try reading The Transparent Society, man… actually reading it.) That answer is…. us.<br /><br />This failure modes do not seem to be where westerners have gone with transparency, which tends to INCREASE tolerance of diversity, eccentricity and harmless divergence, with increased exposure. The kids posting embarrassing things on FB seem to be betting and committing themselves to that.<br /><br />Likewise, if WE are watching the control rooms where the watchers are watching us, do you think the TSA types will get away with joking about our obesity? Or track pretty girls home, without getting caught and fired?<br /><br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-7004136660985612182014-02-10T11:18:50.449-08:002014-02-10T11:18:50.449-08:00Not to denigrate the value of Transparency as both...Not to denigrate the value of Transparency as both a prerequisite to democracy AND a potential countermeasure to governmental surveillance, we must also acknowledge the following:<br /><br />(1) That all of the information in the world is useless to a population that either lacks the subsequent inclination or the capability to act in a physically decisive, legal or extralegal manner;<br /><br />(2) That the cost of democratic action is high, often requiring the sacrifice of comfort, privilege, status, health & life, without which this government of & for the people will vanish from this earth;<br /><br />(3) That the pressing need for both transparency & sousveillance as countermeasures against an increasingly intrusive government suggests that time to act is already upon us as the time for talk has past; and<br /><br />(4) 'That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.'<br /><br /><br />Bestlocumranchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-66557269356187808972014-02-10T08:00:51.698-08:002014-02-10T08:00:51.698-08:00One way surveillance is fine with me, as long as i...One way surveillance is fine with me, as long as it is the people knowing what the state is doing. The state is supposed to be working for the people.<br /><br />Two way surveillance is acceptable. I'll give up my privacy if that is the only way the state will give up its privacy.<br />Howard Brazeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08837948125432719131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-87695866207105106312014-02-10T07:29:08.868-08:002014-02-10T07:29:08.868-08:00I think this article exemplifies what I see as the...I think <a href="http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/02/10-1" rel="nofollow">this article</a> exemplifies what I see as the likely failure mode for transparency. While not about transparency, it is about the changing rules of law in the US, in fact lawlessness by the state. We know the stats that reflect this, but the inside story by a civil rights lawyer puts a very personal stamp on them. As I've said before, simply trying to "watch the watchers" will fail when the rules are changed, arbitrarily.<br /><br />I'm reminded of Hernando de Soto's point that economies require strong property rights, something that is not well established in developing countries, and need to be fixed in those countries. I posit that the reciprocal transparency advocated by David will not work without a strong rule of law, something that the linked article clearly suggests is failing in the US.<br /><br />Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-37684085107354814742014-02-10T06:34:37.251-08:002014-02-10T06:34:37.251-08:00You know, there are parallels between Obama's ...You know, there are parallels between Obama's reaction to Snowden and Nixon's reaction to the Pentagon Papers, with the exception that the latter happened in Nixon's first term and led to Watergate.<br /><br />It would be amusing if, as Obama's last act in office, that he issued a blanket pardon of a dozen or so whistleblowers that he'd had prosecuted and persecuted. Of course, the conspiracy theorists would jump all over that and claim Obama was forced to go after whistleblowers by a shadow government. And we'd probably see Republicans work to strip this power from the Executive Office and undo Obama's use of the Pardon.<br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-12664701834316024112014-02-09T21:24:22.271-08:002014-02-09T21:24:22.271-08:00"A measure of general pubic displeasure is AL...<i>"A measure of general pubic displeasure is ALL that this event will accomplish."</i><br /><br />Oh, I certainly hope not! I mean, I know folks ascribe all manner of meanness to Big Brother, but I'm pretty sure they won't have <i>time</i> to go kick every participant in the crotch, if nothing else...Jonathan S.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-46268125234216768112014-02-09T21:18:15.711-08:002014-02-09T21:18:15.711-08:00One fellow wrote in: "Edward Snowden worked ...One fellow wrote in: "Edward Snowden worked for Booz Allen Hamilton who received a no bid NSA contract in 2007 under President George W Bush. Booz Allen Hamilton had a 5 year contract and was owned by CarIsle Group also then a Bush Family asset. In 2008 Snowden would only say he Voted for a third party candidate. <br /><br />"For the 2012 election, political donation records indicate that he contributed to the primary campaign of Republican candidate Ron Paul. When Booz Allen Hamilton's contract came up for renewal it was decided to bring the intelligence gathering back in house and Snowden leaked to embarrass the President."David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-77709278780982194512014-02-09T19:19:28.803-08:002014-02-09T19:19:28.803-08:00@DB - in retrospect, I phrased my first sentence v...@DB - in retrospect, I phrased my first sentence very badly. All the following examples were based on owning (and sometimes carrying) a gun. I think Paul451 read it the way I meant, but clearly you didn't. My error. Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-40430479272193864752014-02-09T18:50:41.232-08:002014-02-09T18:50:41.232-08:00David,
I think Alex meant "brave teachers wit...David,<br />I think Alex meant "brave teachers with guns".<br /><br />Re: Snowden's political alignment.<br />I can't fulfil your request, but I note that he claimed to have voted 3rd party in 2004 and Obama in 2008.<br /><br />But to be honest, I'd expect intelligence contractors to be paranoid enough to register (and vote) for the party they experience as the most vindictive, just-in-case. [For example, up until shortly before his run, Snowden supposedly posted pro-Intelligence anti-leaker comments online. Whether he believed it or was just ensuring that the same system he exposed was showing him to be A Loyal Man, I don't know.]Paul451https://www.blogger.com/profile/12119086761190994938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-89760163953182487962014-02-09T15:26:29.823-08:002014-02-09T15:26:29.823-08:00Alex said: "Sousveillance is like having your...Alex said: "Sousveillance is like having your own gun. In theory, citizens could rise up and overthrow a tyrannical government. In theory teachers could protect their children from crazies. In theory you can walk tall without fear of being "messed with" in the street. In practice, it means that the authorities single out the citizen and use superior firepower. In practice the children are killed before any protection can be given."<br /><br />You're serious? You can say this without seeing the ironies? That countless children ARE saved by brave teachers? That we mostly CAN stand tall on most streets… compared to ANY and all times past? And that a proliferation of cameras are trending to giving that right to minorities?<br /><br />If citizen observers in the control room get co opted, there is only one answer. More of them.<br /><br />The ultimate point. 99% of our protector-caste civil servants do not view themselves as bad guys. There's a limit to what they can rationalize. That limit might shift! So apply sousveillance so that it keeps shifting toward "I'm a servant."David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-28970399699230287032014-02-09T15:21:50.498-08:002014-02-09T15:21:50.498-08:00Sure, at any given moment, cynicism is probably ju...Sure, at any given moment, cynicism is probably justified. And then you have "moments" that overturn the oligarchic apple cart.<br /><br />One happened when Senator Al Gore's staff drafted the bill that set the Internet free and gave us 25 years of spectacular freedom and renaissance… with flaws that are the only things that cynics see.<br /><br />If we can only see EITHER flaws or the good stuff, show the flaws! Pounce on em! But know that a cynic is tunnel-visioned and cannot see opportunities and the fact that the world also has hope.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-67635088466179739652014-02-09T14:19:45.358-08:002014-02-09T14:19:45.358-08:00There may not be many cases in history where whini...There may not be many cases in history where whining worked, but there are many where revolution and armed struggle did. As we slouch toward this dystopian future, why do you promote such an attitude of hopelessness and powerlessness and submission to the status quo? Real power comes from transgressing the rules and abrogating the existing order; if you always rule this option out, you are in effect a slave to the current system and can do little more than whine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-46012423331181441152014-02-09T13:51:01.367-08:002014-02-09T13:51:01.367-08:00The US government is considering having all cars b...The US government is considering having all cars be wired for surveil..err vehicle to vehicle communication by 2015. California wants to mandate a kill switch for all phones and tablets....to protect against theft. And I've got a bridge to sell you.<br /><br />Having a citizen in the "control room" will do nothing, as the psychology of the "Stockholm Syndrome" takes over.<br /><br />Sousveillance is like having your own gun. In theory, citizens could rise up and overthrow a tyrannical government. In theory teachers could protect their children from crazies. In theory you can walk tall without fear of being "messed with" in the street. In practice, it means that the authorities single out the citizen and use superior firepower. In practice the children are killed before any protection can be given. In practice unlawful killings occur that in some states are protected by "stand your ground" laws.<br /><br />In theory, sousveillance could protect against tyranny. In practice, surveillance technologies will make the world very authoritarian. Kill switches on communications and transport just adds to the control of citizens.<br /><br />Our "protector class" are just sophisticated thugs, demanding "protection money", because...well "things break" (c.f. Monty Python). A Time magazine article on the US army had a quote rom a senior rank that said (I'm paraphrasing) "The army is a giant welfare system, where we occasionally kill the odd terrorist"Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-80163703762641286072014-02-09T12:33:44.190-08:002014-02-09T12:33:44.190-08:00I fear that David's optimism is sadly misplace...I fear that David's optimism is sadly misplaced because -- as the internet becomes increasingly monetized with restricted access for the masses -- it becomes increasingly likely that it will be used by the Oligarchy as another layer of control.<br /><br />My relationship with the major US cellular carrier suggests as much, with its unilateral service contract, increasing access fees & shrinking data limits, making it that much more likely that the future internet will take the form of economic wage slavery, charging for information and political influence by the pixil.<br /><br />'Do you want to receive email, keep informed, ensure governmental accountability or interact with peers??'<br /><br />'If your answer is 'YES', then click "I Accept all of the restrictions & conditions thereof" on the appropriate box below, knowing that if you click "I do NOT accept" that you will be forever marginalized by innumerable service providers, potential employers, social media & society in general.'<br /><br />'If you clicked "I Accept", then please select one of the following monetized access plans: Slave, Serf, Economy, Libertarian, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Republican or Oligarch'.<br /><br />'If you clicked the "I do not accept" box or you possess insufficient funds to allow purchase, then "Have a Nice Day", pathetic loser'.<br /><br />Bestlocumranchnoreply@blogger.com