tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post5312415278427185031..comments2024-03-28T07:58:16.979-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Sci Fi MusingsDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-70483060534849114932016-05-19T13:52:19.603-07:002016-05-19T13:52:19.603-07:00Matthew you nailed my reasons for tolerating locum...Matthew you nailed my reasons for tolerating locum and the ent (still a great band name!) Locum as an alien mind, yes, who appears to be in real pain. Treebeard because there's some pleasure in responding to each jab with a much stronger counter that lets me vent my inner asshole. Righteously.<br /><br />Donzel, in Jefferson's day, romantics were ALLIES of the enlightenment democrats, because Athens had never been rebuilt and was romantically of the past. As soon as the US was underway though, the romantics were appalled by the same things that impressed deTocqueville... shopkeepers and farmers arguing in public and claiming to be the equal of any aristocrat. Romanticism veered ever more toward enmity with enlightenment.<br /><br />Tolkien? hm. The "allies" aren't very helpful in LOTR. And while his books helped literacy in our modernist world, inside his own worlds there is very very little. The Palantir is way cool, till you realize they could have put one on every desk in Middle Earth and changed everything.<br /><br />Now I am moving onward<br /><br />onward<br /><br />onward<br /><br />onward<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-12413858937959026322016-05-19T13:49:39.147-07:002016-05-19T13:49:39.147-07:00And as for Star Wars -
"...despite techie f...And as for Star Wars - <br /><br /><i>"...despite techie furnishings, relentlessly preaches the nostalgist party line — an ideal society ought to be ruled by secretive-mystical elites, unaccountable and self-chosen based on inherent qualities of blood."</i><br /><br />- one hesitates to raise the question, given the risk of misconstrual, but as a Jewish filmmaker, perhaps Lucas was discharging his own internal uncertainties (just as Tolkien certainly was discharging Catholic uncertainties). The old is still good! It must be preserved. There is a legacy and history in the blood that defines a piece of identity, and that is a good thing. But blood identity (or genetics, or midichlorians) cannot be all that matters.<br /><br />There are crass commercial reasons Disney may opt to preserve the Jedi Order in films to come. But there are also other reasons...perhaps Hollywood itself endorses a concept of a 'knightly order' - not out of a fear of progress, or a desire or intention to secretively control the world - so much as a mix of the painful fear of the excesses of progress, with the painful struggle to answer "Who am I?"donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-33354072308199666602016-05-19T13:29:21.924-07:002016-05-19T13:29:21.924-07:00And back to our host, whose essay on Tolkien I onc...And back to our host, whose essay on Tolkien I once wanted to respond to, and which merits substantial thought. The key critique is here:<br /><i>Calling the scientific worldview “soul-less,” he joined...many European-trained philosophers in spurning the modern emphasis on pragmatic experimentation, production, universal literacy, progress, cooperative enterprise, democracy, city life and flattened social orders.</i><br /><br />Perhaps, on one level. And yet - <br /><br />(1) Rational experimentation. Tolkien's sensibility was more toward crafting a sort of garden with words, and as many gardeners experiment, without necessarily adding to biological knowledge, their little efforts can pay off remarkably (ask Mendel). The experiment was in sharing that garden, with his son, then more broadly - wondering if anyone might embrace his voluble fruit. If they did, what would they actually desire? Another genealogy chart for Sam? The Elven word for an extinct, but delectable fruit? <br /><br />Linguists learn by experimentation. The Romantics morphed into Philologists, seeking a common tongue to end wars in Europe, then watching with horror as 1s and 0s of finance replaced their initial vision. No wonder one of them fled to Middle Earth.<br /><br />(2) Universal literacy. As an author of a beloved work, Tolkien taught many (including me) how to read. As an Oxbridge professor, he doubtless maintained a curmudgeonly disdain for semi-literacy, yet the university system itself is a breach in the ancient tradition of higher education being limited to monastic orders or the extreme oligarchs. Universities are among the finest creatures of the Enlightenment (though these days, with a few trillion dollars of debt, they're morphing into something far uglier).<br /><br />(3) Cooperative enterprise. The notion that elves, dwarves, men, and hobbits must band together to fight against orcs suggests Tolkien was at least somewhat supportive of cooperative enterprise. A Fellowship splinters and ruptures, but enough fellows remain true to get the job done and save the world together. Even agrarian hobbits have something essential to contribute to that enterprise (and part of me wonders if Tolkien regarded his children as 'hobbits' once upon a time).<br /><br />Tolkien's vision of 'progress' is not an Englishtenment Rationalist, but it serves the agenda of rationalists by reminding us (us?) of the value of the old. A world sans elves, orcs, dwarves and wizards may be better if it's not beset with cataclysmic wars - but that old world was still beautiful in its way. Tolkien makes space for the 'gardeners' of modernity. While some converts will crassly adopt silly religious trappings (e.g., Whole Foods evangelists), there are both Rationalist and Romantic reasons to love farming.<br /><br />Strayed Romantics can beget Nazism. Strayed Rationalists can beget Socialism. Tolkien, as I read him, strove for a balance, and if he fell more on the Romantic side, one can attribute that to training as a linguist (rather than a scientist). As I see it, a Romantic faced with the very real risk of losing his son in a war, would strive to distinguish THIS war from the futile effort he'd fought in, and also to express his love of family through his art (and even ponder the possibility of leaving something more for his children, if his books actually sell). <br /><br />Jefferson, the Roosevelts, and Lincoln are the American leaders who respected the power of Romanticism and Rationalism - and made our country great by fusing the two streams. Never "the only good knowledge is old knowledge" - so much as, the "old knowledge is still good, even if it's old" - along with "new knowledge is also good, even if untested." Or more accurately, a neo-Enlightenment premise: knowledge is good, and respect better.<br /><br />Respectfully... - Ddonzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-38975645859821059662016-05-19T13:26:38.750-07:002016-05-19T13:26:38.750-07:00Re: locum, treebeard, et al
Locum is interesting...Re: locum, treebeard, et al <br /><br />Locum is interesting. I am terrified by his assertion that he is a physician, but I read what he has to say for much the same reason as David has given - he is an alien brain. I hope he is as patient with us as we are with him. <br /> <br />Treebeard is the same old right-wing coward blowhard. I'm bored with what he has to say, but I've pretty much spent my entire life getting into fistfights, yelling matches, and out and out feuds with his type. I'm too old to change, and besides, I enjoy it (righteous indignation junkie, that's me). I apologize to those that have to read what I have to say to him, but I certainly do not apologize to him. <br /><br />And our "car-sitter?" Like I said earlier, I think that person is even more of a construct than is normal in internet dialog. I certainly sense a pattern there, and I think the pattern is intentional, not a product of internal conflict, just a product of a conscious decision by that certain "anonymous" to use certain phrases and themes to mark their posts as their own. I gave one possible explanation above for this behavior. <br /><br />**********<br /><br />Not in the same group as the above, but his own category, Alfred is interesting also. I do not understand how his brain works, how his version of libertarian idealism colors his worldview. As long as I'm not pissing him off (tell me, Alfred, when I get there?) I'll keep on poking away at his ideas, maybe finding some truth, maybe just using his counterpoints to sharpen my own. matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17757867868731829206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-52394919604439745042016-05-19T12:56:20.825-07:002016-05-19T12:56:20.825-07:00Ooh, cool. Midichlorian infected droids! What co...Ooh, cool. Midichlorian infected droids! What could go wrong? ;-)<br /><br />onward<br /><br />onwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-52060687454520699942016-05-19T12:39:18.391-07:002016-05-19T12:39:18.391-07:00I see Luke's twenty plus years at the ancient ...I see Luke's twenty plus years at the ancient Jedi Temple differently. It looks like he hasn’t shaved or maybe washed in a while so he may have been alone in a sense but Luke is a doer and I don’t see him spending all that time just gazing at his bellybutton. Luke is good at fixing droids. His father was a mechanical genius. He even built droids for fun when he was just a boy! Luke inherited his instinctive knowledge of machinery. My guess is that Luke has given up on biological Jedis. He spent his time there building Jedi droids and Jedi AI and they can’t be tempted by the Dark Side because they can’t HATE. He has an army of Jedi droids with light sabers and they will make mincemeat out of the Empire’s clone soldiers. They would be networked and act in swarms guided by AI with input from Luke and his sister. The rightful place of the princes, dukes and counts will be reinstated and all will be well in the galaxy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-61443355384557277262016-05-19T12:33:54.506-07:002016-05-19T12:33:54.506-07:00The only good thing out of "The Force Awakens...The only good thing out of "The Force Awakens" is that gal from Tatooine. There's something about her I really, really like, although I can't figure out what it is. Hmm...<br /><br />A.F. ReyA.F. Reynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-56650064691180731402016-05-19T12:29:19.937-07:002016-05-19T12:29:19.937-07:00I like the cure for midichlorians thing... a lot l...I like the cure for midichlorians thing... a lot like that 4th x men flick or Batman countering superman. But it won't happen.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-4870494768666799092016-05-19T11:56:01.963-07:002016-05-19T11:56:01.963-07:00SteveO - "On the other hand, wouldn't it ...SteveO - <i>"On the other hand, wouldn't it be cool if the last movie is Luke hunting down a cure for midichlorians?"</i><br /><br />I like it - that's a form of Gotterdamerung that could bring the series to a fascinating, fitting closure. I can see the script being proposed, Abrams hemming and hawing - "Yep, it's a good story, but what about Part 10, 11, and 12? If the Force is banished into superstition and forgotten, will people still watch Star Wars? Of course, if his contract stops at 9, perhaps he'll have an incentive to do just that.donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-23966255917108164722016-05-19T11:51:28.061-07:002016-05-19T11:51:28.061-07:00@Berial - re Thomas Covenant - if only I could lau...@Berial - re Thomas Covenant - if only I could laugh Donald Trump out of existence!<br />@Laurent - re Dune series - well-said. Still, I've yet to read any other Herbert books that resonated like Dune I did, so that may have been just an exceptionally good idea, mined commercially long after the well ran dry. Still, how many authors would dare to write a book about just how tedious the 'messiah' actually proves to be? <br /><br />re Jedi - I am thinking of the historical Western knightly orders, and what they became (Samurai, so far as I'm aware, were never banned from marriage - the Jedi are a Western vision of knighthood). Templar bankers. Teutonic oligarchs. The Hospitallers morphed into a naval order of marines...and slave-traders - and are the only group that functioned as knights semi-connected to their original mission. (BTW, strong recommendations for Crowley's "Empires of the Sea" - boy's own history, the riveting tale of the valiant last stand of the very diminished, disreputable knights against hopeless odds offers nuggets for those enamored of knightly orders. That's my context for thinking about Jedi.donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-9805799564704353982016-05-19T11:14:56.835-07:002016-05-19T11:14:56.835-07:00Luke's first words right after the end of The ...Luke's first words right after the end of The Force Awakens is, "I don't need a lighsaber. Get me off this worthless puddle of a planet."<br /><br />See he only planed to be there 2 days, but his x-wing had engine trouble that couldn't be fix, and ended up trapped for years. Lukenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-36705895205922199142016-05-19T09:33:44.978-07:002016-05-19T09:33:44.978-07:00I am more Star Trek than Star Wars, but I keep hop...I am more Star Trek than Star Wars, but I keep hoping that JJ Abrams is moving towards a realization like others have mentioned - the Jedi Order was deeply flawed, requiring of its members an impossible price. Combine that with the already discussed ubermenchen-dependence in the Former Republic and you have a very unstable power structure that needs to be stabilized.<br /><br />Also that the midichlorians are parasites in it for parasitic purposes, not any greater good. They only care about making more midichlorians. War makes good opportunities for contagions...and the midichlorians seem to actively push Anakin to the dark side given a little provocation.<br /><br />So on the one hand, there seem to be hints that Luke is the first Jedi in at least a while to experience his dark side and...tame? assimilate?...it. So maybe the movies are heading to a more realistic "everyone has the possibility of good or bad in them, it is our choices that make the difference."<br /><br />On the other hand, wouldn't it be cool if the last movie is Luke hunting down a cure for midichlorians? Deciding that ubermenchen running around, even good guys, is a net negative? And having the moral courage to give up his own superpowers for the good of the sentient races?SteveOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-65636803819313350172016-05-19T08:39:38.206-07:002016-05-19T08:39:38.206-07:00@Laurent Weppe
I love all the 'accolades' ...@Laurent Weppe<br />I love all the 'accolades' that movie got!Berialnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-22279484945555549112016-05-19T08:16:53.450-07:002016-05-19T08:16:53.450-07:00* "I thought they grew progressively less int...<b>*</b> "<i>I thought they grew progressively less interesting, and stopped with God Emperor, so perhaps I missed something.</i>"<br /><br />Herbert should have been more didactic in his later books: some people privilege style over substance, Herbert's style ended up smothering the substance.<br /><br />***<br /><br /><b>*</b> "<i>When I watch overgrown teddy bears beating the 'most feared troops in the galaxy' with stone age weapons, I kinda lose the desire to think too deeply about the show, ya know?</i><br /><br />What? Leia & her Teddy Bear Armies was awesome! So awesome that when Stallone tried to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambo:_First_Blood_Part_II" rel="nofollow">remake</a> it <b>without</b> the Teddy Bears, the final result ended up being disappointing.Laurent Weppenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62105260226244360352016-05-19T07:41:05.540-07:002016-05-19T07:41:05.540-07:00When it comes to Star Wars I find it's best to...When it comes to Star Wars I find it's best to just take what they give you and hope for the best. When I watch overgrown teddy bears beating the 'most feared troops in the galaxy' with stone age weapons, I kinda lose the desire to think too deeply about the show, ya know? HOPEFULLY JJ has put some thought into it this time around.<br /><br />As for ignoring some of our posters, some are just one trick trolls. I've seen their trick and am bored with it, so I just ignore them. Over half the time loci is sending us messages from a foreign planet so I try to figure out if he's visiting planet reality before reading his missives too much.<br /><br />Oh, and Donzelion, you managed to go further than I did with the Dune series. I lost interest about half way through 3. I'm not sure I even finished that one. I used to never do that, (stop reading a series) but after forcing myself to read all of the Thomas Covenant series I broke myself of that habit.Berialnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-45879147375315535762016-05-19T06:56:00.564-07:002016-05-19T06:56:00.564-07:00@Paul SB - re responding to Locum/Treebeard - &quo...@Paul SB - re responding to Locum/Treebeard - <i>"I'm not sure I'm a better man, I just can't decide whether it is better to ignore bullies or take them on."</i><br />A good one not to decide, since it really depends on context (there is a time...but not every time). Besides, when bored, Locum at least offers some alternative views that are fun to poke holes in, which can be good practice for one who feels a need to do so (like me). (I prefer the 'circus' metaphor to the 'squirrel' metaphor - people aren't dogs, so much as easily misled, particularly when they want to be misled.)<br /><br />But with the seniority card pulled, I have indeed been trumped (har har). ;-) <br /><br />And frankly, I'd rather pick up the messianism thread alluded to earlier in the Dune allusions than prick easy targets. Herbert's treatment is may, in some sense, parallel the Star Wars mythos, albeit out of sequence - <br />Dune I, the 'false but well-meaning messiah' wrapped in a kickass coming-of-age tale<br />Dune II, the 'false but well-meaning messiah confronting the price of actual messianism'<br />Dune III, the process of messianism is ugly wrapped in a weak-ass coming-of-age tale, and Dune IV - the actuality is tedious, so who would actually want it in the first place?<br /><br />I thought they grew progressively less interesting, and stopped with God Emperor, so perhaps I missed something.<br /><br />Still, given that creative template about chosen ones (not to mention the history of Earth religions, as at least a mythological source to pull ideas), is it any wonder Abrams remakes 'A New Hope,' rather than offering something new? How many different versions of the Life of Jesus have been made, rather than trying to do an interesting "life of the Apostles, but whose communist conduct must be omitted lest it confuse Americans"? And really, a Philemon story wouldn't play all that well today.donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1401348976334128922016-05-19T06:50:43.696-07:002016-05-19T06:50:43.696-07:00@Larry - I thought "A New Hope" was appe...@Larry - I thought "A New Hope" was appended after Empire came out, so whoops. Still, my ultimate take on misplaced hope and false saviors applies across the board. Whatever Yoda meant (and there really isn't another candidate), the whole notion of hope being vested in a single person is one I'd love to see squelched, and am curious if the Star Wars crowd can do it (skeptical...the 'chosen one' trope is a cash cow).<br /><br />Instead of a wise leader of a scrupulously necessary knighthood, the midget Confucius, maybe Yoda was just a well-meaning, depressed old puppet wanting to make peace with his mortality and/or think up some new course that might replace the old order, retiring to Dagobah to try to figure out what the Jedi ought to be since they'd clearly failed.<br /><br />Maybe Obi-Wan was also just an old man, trying to define his place, who at least had the luxury of some purpose with his occasional visits to check on Luke (but the distance he maintained meant he also wanted to avoid training him, unless it became "necessary").<br /><br />Maybe Luke assumed, as a young man might, that his duty was to recreate the old order and ensure it's survival - but he failed so spectacularly that he quickly reached the same conclusion as his mentors: the order itself is flawed, and cannot continue as it was. <br /><br />Hopefully, they'll eschew "we must find the ancient talisman of zippededoo and that will provide our fortune cookie answer..." - that's more Marvel territory. There are interesting questions that could be raised as to "what galaxy should we have, when we have no mystical orders?" (Or maybe Ren/Finn will be the new 'gray jedi.')donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-30575614836834791522016-05-19T06:35:26.666-07:002016-05-19T06:35:26.666-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-16241256645043443352016-05-19T05:05:23.301-07:002016-05-19T05:05:23.301-07:00Larry, Berial (the Vedic, I suppose?) & Don Ze...Larry, Berial (the Vedic, I suppose?) & Don Ze Lion,<br /><br />Larry wrote,<br />"You're a better man than I am for even reading through those posts. As soon as I've detected "Anonymous" and "car-sitting" together, my eye jumps to the next post. "Move along. Nothing to see here.""<br /><br />And Berial seconded with the Trollish Duo.<br /><br />I'm not sure I'm a better man, I just can't decide whether it is better to ignore bullies or take them on. On the one hand, a bully tends to get bored when you don't react to their posturing & eventually leave you alone. But then, they will just go slash at someone else from under their bridges. On the other hand, when people through out certain toxic memes and they go unchallenged, there will always be those who absorb those memes, mistaking silence for tacit agreement.<br /><br />In the old days propaganda mostly passed through newspapers, television & radio (on mass scales, though word-of-mouth, classrooms & pulpits have always been big media for propaganda). Now the internet has become a huge medium for propaganda, and you don't have to be a 1%er to use it. But even here we keep hearing their propaganda coming from those who have swallowed it, hook, line and sinker. The powerful have played the game of divide and conquer all through human history. Race, sex and religion are all squirrels that the masters can point to. Every time they shout "squirrel!" the pack looks the other way, and ignores who their true enemy is. Anonymous cowards and other pseudonymous fools now can use the internet to shout "squirrel" along with them. I just want to tell them to shut up about squirrels and turn their teeth to the masters.<br /><br />And Don Ze Lion, you're a relative newcomer here. I've only been around for a couple years, so I'm a bit of a junior member myself, but in the time I have been hanging around I have seen a whole lot of decent, intelligent people debate their ideas as mature and decent people do - and then there's locumranch and freeboard, who behave like playground bullies and constantly resort to petty name-calling and childish mockery. One in awhile they might say something that is actually intelligent, just as a poor-quality pop star might once in awhile hit on a good tune, but those two have bring the discourse here down to middle-school cafeteria level.Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-50894248487768874182016-05-19T04:08:56.743-07:002016-05-19T04:08:56.743-07:00donzelion:
Leia as the "other hope" Yod...donzelion:<br /><i><br />Leia as the "other hope" Yoda mentions is the only plausible candidate with script to support it, BUT (1) it's never explicit, (2) what interest did Kenobi or Yoda ever take in Leia, and (3) her own catchphrase from Episode IV, "Help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope." In an episode entitled "A New Hope." But not entitled "THE New Hope." Cryptic, no?<br /></i><br /><br />Interesting.<br /><br />Also evidence of bad retconning. Kenobi had no interest in Leia as a potential Jedi in the first movie because the writer had not yet decided that she and Luke were siblings. And that movie wasn't actually entitled "A New Hope" until one or two re-releases later.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-38019483803842373912016-05-19T01:48:55.857-07:002016-05-19T01:48:55.857-07:00@Laurent - The appeal of vendetta is the juxtaposi...@Laurent - The appeal of vendetta is the juxtaposition of the 'pre-legal ancient blood codes' with the requirements of modernity. To that extent, I think Lucas has endorsed modern sensibilities, and the 'prevailing' legal order, rather than the instincts of powerful and enraged. Cut out the hamfisted product and painful dialogue, and the premise is actually a good one: the old ways are seductive, but we must move beyond them to embrace something new. <br /><br />That same principle, however, may apply to the Jedi themselves - what, if any, place should an ancient order from a pre-modern time have for us now? <br /><br />An interesting quandary. These days, the Republican insiders like to regard themselves as knights 'conserving' an ancient order against evil enemies (bent on destroying Christmas!). Trump is an expression of an even more primal imperative - carpet bomb the enemies, build the Great Wall of America - make America Great Again by making us a lot more like feudal China. Bush played the "Men of the West" notions in Jackson's opus to justify the war against Saddam/Sauron. <br /><br />What if Abrams & co. are actually smarter, actually read critiques like Dr. Brin's, actually think: is our work doing anything other than making us money? What if a bunch of silly people mistake the Trumps/Bushes/Cruzes of this Murdochian world for Han Solo, rather than Jabba or Palpatine? What if, despairing of their "only hope" (or at least, their audacious hope), they embrace a far worse monster as a "savior" during the "emergency"? If we bring a gotterdamerung twilight for these 'gods' - will Marvel simply replace us with their own deities and galactic guardians? I like to think of them grappling with grandiose notions over a number of drinks (or other substances), then laughing, shrugging, and trying their best to process something 'cool' while hoping to do no harm. donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-46685829265934577372016-05-19T01:01:49.978-07:002016-05-19T01:01:49.978-07:00* "First Jedi Temple: “This is where Rey find...<b>*</b> "<i>First Jedi Temple: “This is where Rey finds him at the end of TFA.” Aaaaaand it never occurred to anyone to look for him there?</i>"<br /><br />Perhaps nobody <i>remembered</i> where the temple was, kinda like how the location of Earth ends up being forgotten in the Foundation series: the Jedi built their main temple on Coruscent and as time went on, the memories of the order's origins faded away.<br /><br />***<br /><br /><b>*</b> "<i>my interpretation wasn't that anger itself makes one evil, so much as indulging in anger (or worse, striving to utilize it to amass power).</i>"<br /><br />Anger, and most importantly revenge.<br />One aspect where the Star Wars series is clearly atypical compared to your run-of-the-mill righteous fury, <i>revenge-is-<b>the</b>-valid-answer-to-injustice</i> flick is that seeking retribution clearly sets one on the path to evil and their ultimate demise:<br />When Luke wants to avenge his father and Obi-Wan, Vader easily dominates the fight; when on the contrary he wants to redeem his father, the balance of power is reversed: the final duel lasting longer than it could because for most of it Luke isn't even trying to defeat Vader. Sure, the emperor zaps him afterward, but one of the good things (buried under all the dialogue and clunky plotting) of the first trilogy is that it established that experienced Jedi had not trouble handling Palpatine's force lightning, thus establishing beyond doubt that the emperor gaining the upper hand in RotJ came from Luke still being somewhat inexperienced, not a result of "<i>Evil makes you stronger</i>"<br />On the other hand, Anakin starts to slip toward the Dark Side when he slaughters the Sand People: that's not simply anger we see in that scene, but an old school vendetta: "<i>You killed one person dear to me? I'll <b>exterminate</b> your whole clan, from the infants to the senile elderly, and I'll <b>feel good</b> about it!</i>".Laurent Weppenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-68454958508632194232016-05-18T22:10:02.773-07:002016-05-18T22:10:02.773-07:00@RobH - in an age of digital wonders, how can wond...@RobH - in an age of digital wonders, how can wondering about superpowers be a tangent?<br /><br />For the healer, at least one aspect of 'healing power' comes from self-sacrifice (as many doctors find). Many suffer intense guilt for failing to help as many as they could, or for helping one when another who needs help more is turned away. It is fitting to wonder at the ethics of it all. And yet those of us outside their art have no space to judge, but only to speculate.<br /><br />For Superman, he helped many, especially the young, especially during his time of origin, the Great Depression. Not in fantastic worlds, but in this world, where the thought that an immigrant alien might be the paragon defender of truth, justice, and the American way, even in a country that had severe distrust of 'foreigners' (back then, particularly 'European foreigners' - code for Jewish immigrants). There is the psychology of a fictional character, but there is also the reality of a struggling nation looking for heroes less fallible than Babe Ruth or John Wayne. <br /><br />For telepathy, I actually like the treatment of tele-empathy in Jessica Jones - a very particular sort of control, which the writers interpreted as a form of rape (the show even explored the possibility of using such powers for 'good' - and shrugged that aside, concluding no good comes from quashing personal control). Our Jedi heroes, by contrast, could work their powers only on "weak minds" (not like those strong cynical minds of Solo-loving individuals who embraced the sereis) - and further, only did so to avert 'evil' - thus dodging the interesting ethical implications. So it goes with so many portraits of evil: they must look like Hitler/Mussolini/Stalin - they must be opposed - operatic motifs and black/white hats. <br /><br />Still...a piece of me is infatuated with a Bhagavad Gita interpretation of the Jedi: should we intervene, when action itself is so likely to impede liberation? And yet we must fulfill our role, for this is what we are. Lucas, Abrams, and others writing have read at least cliffnotes spirituality, if not more intense study - and at the end of the day, each wants his work to be meaningful, somehow. Even if it's derivative, or a remake of a derivative. And so many found so much meaning within, that I at least refuse to judge, but just to try to enjoy and accept, and be glad of it's existence.donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-41163490500967799762016-05-18T21:38:23.535-07:002016-05-18T21:38:23.535-07:00From the sounds of the sources I've read, Luke...From the sounds of the sources I've read, Luke was searching for the First Temple. That it had not been destroyed by the Empire may either mean the Emperor didn't know of it, or he felt it wasn't a threat to him. And that may be because the original Jedi didn't divorce themselves into Dark and Light Side, but actually accepted reality has different gradients of grey. (And in fact, I've been seeing some advertisements for "Grey Jedi" shirts, and a quote which is pretty much superior to the Sith and Light Side: There is passion, yet emotion. Serenity, yet peace. Chaos, yet order. There is no Dark Side, nor a Light Side. There is only The Force.)<br /><br />That said, I do agree with you within reason. Anger is not evil. Anger which controls you leads to evil. (And that would have been a fascinating bit for prequel #3 - if rather than Force Choking Padme, Vader just stared at her and put the Force Suggestion "Die" in her and she collapsed. The whole "lost the will to live" bit would make sense because she had what has to be one of the more insidious and vile abilities of the Jedi used for harm.<br /><br />------<br /><br />Going off on a tangent of course, that makes me wonder about the ethics of telepathy. If someone used mind control to "convince" a person to lay down a gun and surrender... is that not essentially enslaving someone? You stripped their will from them, if only for a minute. <br /><br />Yet is it any different than a telepath inflicting intense pain (essentially hitting someone with an extremely potent migraine) to disable someone? <br /><br />Indeed, the use of the majority of "superhero" abilities could be considered unethical. I mean, let's take healing. With all the people out there who are sick and need help... how do you pick and choose? What right do you have to determine who should be healed and who should not? And what right do you have to STOP healing even if it's for your own health and sanity? If you have that power, then should you not use it until you die so that people suffered for the least amount of time? If you choose those in the greatest pain... then are you not discriminating against those who do not match your criteria? But if you just heal whoever is closest, no matter how minor their harm, are you not wasting your talent and hurting those who are in greater need?<br /><br />For that matter, what of those like Superman? What right does he have to refuse to help people? Yet if he helps everyone, does he not risk making them dependent on his aid? In that case, should Superman be disabled somehow, would his constant aid up until then actually be harmful as it disempowers people to try and help themselves? <br /><br />Which of course brings us back to the Jedi. Was Luke right in abandoning the galaxy? After all, people don't NEED the Jedi. Can they not help themselves? Should they not?<br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-56548123340180711932016-05-18T21:11:34.045-07:002016-05-18T21:11:34.045-07:00@RobH & LarryHart - "Luke sought out and ...@RobH & LarryHart - <i>"Luke sought out and found the first Jedi Temple. This is where Rey finds him at the end of TFA. Now, why would he seek out the FIRST Jedi Temple?</i><br /><br />I concur, but on an existential level (which JJ Abrams may not even be writing about, but which is a fair interpretation). What if Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Luke were all vaguely in agreement with Dr. Brin: why shouldn't this order of knights just go extinct? <br /><br />I can appreciate the thought of going to the First Temple to seek meaning. As a young man, I visited Jerusalem, looking for meaning and answers to questions about my place in the world. As a less young man, I went seeking clarification: was all of those early thoughts mere vanity? On the third trip, I decided, yes, indeed the thought of objective meaning from such a wellspring was vain, but even so, the place is quite beautiful: the meanings of others cannot touch me, I must construct my own meanings, but I can be at ease with that.<br /><br />But as for this - <i>"the “anger makes you evil” thing of Lucas was one of his 3 dozen truly vile faux-wisdom evil-rants"</i> - my interpretation wasn't that anger itself makes one evil, so much as indulging in anger (or worse, striving to utilize it to amass power). I still like that view. There are leaders who strive to construct, who try to balance competing factions (who often appear weak by refusing to declare 'evil doers') - and there are the Donald Trump/Rupert Murdoch rage cults of the world, deploying anger to amass power.donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.com