tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post4906329422762133330..comments2024-03-29T00:39:31.629-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Political fantasies, nightmares and white knights... so will they pick a General? David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger124125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-45213337148426000482016-04-14T18:50:23.959-07:002016-04-14T18:50:23.959-07:00onwardonwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-40033724865188104682016-04-14T14:26:13.351-07:002016-04-14T14:26:13.351-07:00Donzelion,
The biggest and meanest monkey in a tr...Donzelion,<br /><br />The biggest and meanest monkey in a troupe has monopoly power. He can get food and sexual services because he can beat the shit out of the others and the lower status monkeys recognize this but they adapt and get back. I remember watching a video of an alpha baboon watching over his harem. One of his females was munching on some grass but the alfa could only see her head because the rest of her was behind a boulder. Behind the boulder, a low-status baboon was banging her being careful not to get into direct sight of the alpha, and the alpha never caught on. That reminds me of certain human behavior. <br /><br />Which came first? Was it Law or Accounting and that is a moot point. I am in business and you are a lawyer. Maybe we are blind men feeling different parts of the elephant but it is incontestable the humans have a nature gift for mathematics and that stems from the fact that for a monkey to survive in a very social environment, he had to be able to count favors and Law came to being as a way to enforce that that the books balance. All civilization is based on the two.<br /><br />Bond markets are out of whack. Let’s get real! Negative interest rates should never exist except in very certain circumstances and not for very long. In the last fifteen years, I have watched with dismay that the economic situation is getting more and more irrational and chaotic and that the political elites keep on reinforcing this trend instead of doing something about it. Normally my politics have been slightly Left but now I think that the political elites of both parties have lost it completely. I have come to the conclusion that only a radical change can save us. It may come as a surprise, but I think that Bernie Sanders is the right man to make that change.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-14221911446327748052016-04-14T14:09:39.168-07:002016-04-14T14:09:39.168-07:00Donzel & deuxglass, the best thing would be fo...Donzel & deuxglass, the best thing would be for Congress to give the Fed the right to “inflate” and “ease” by a method beyond low interest rates, which is a weapon of limited use and that inflates bubbles. The new one would be the right to issue infrastructure bonds, once every five years, with required repayment. The spending would be hi velocity and issued at supremely low interest. John Mauldin describes details. <br /><br />Continue under next posting.<br /><br />onward<br /><br />onward<br /><br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-36576852889956253932016-04-14T13:43:45.094-07:002016-04-14T13:43:45.094-07:00donzelion:
It's a world Trey Stone & Matt...donzelion:<br /><i><br />It's a world Trey Stone & Matt Parker (South Park, Orgazmo, Team America) might concoct.<br /><br />But whatever happens in Cleveland, there shall be no dildos on the floor.<br /></i><br /><br />Gives a whole new meaning to the petition to allow concealed carry.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-45598815356860562152016-04-14T13:07:44.940-07:002016-04-14T13:07:44.940-07:00Also, Dr. Brin, I think of Trump and Cruz as Scudd...Also, Dr. Brin, I think of Trump and Cruz as Scudder split in half. Cruz has the Dominionist theocratic beliefs, the cynical ability to manipulate without limit, and the lust for power for its own sake. Trump has the magical ability to twist charisma and television without limit, the gut understanding of manipulating hate and fear and bigotry, the Pied Piper ability to amass crowds and hold them spellbound.<br /><br />Thank God they hate each other.Catfish N. Codnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-60338608377357500082016-04-14T12:54:32.551-07:002016-04-14T12:54:32.551-07:00@Deuxglass - "Accounting goes way back furthe...@Deuxglass - <i>"Accounting goes way back further than we think. If you study primate “culture”, you see that just above all of it is centered around giving and taking favors from other members and our brains evolved to help figure out who owes who."</i><br /><br />LOL, ah, now you're going to the underlying logic, rather than the practice of accounting. In one sense, trees 'count' by adding rings, but in my usage, humans 'count' (or 'account') in a very different way for very different reasons (in part because the ledger in our brains is warped by our own expectations/demands/power/memory - so we keep ledgers on pottery shards, stone tablets, on paper books and digital equivalents). Monkey Two MIGHT repay Monkey One all four bananas, but Monkey Two might eat them and apply that calorie load to growing bigger, and then beat up Monkey One. Monkey One might even give Monkey Two those bananas to avoid getting beaten up (or to nurture a baby or injured monkey).<br /><br />Perhaps when Adam first looked at Eve, he counted them apples, but unless he wrote it down, it was just counting, not accounting. More likely, the earliest writing was probably developed to count bushels of barley/rice/wheat (and who owns how many of them) - hence, accounting and law emerged simultaneously (and the bigger monkey deferred to the will of smaller monkeys when they both realized they'd get a better granary if they shared - but that could only work so long as they didn't kill one another over who got how much out of it).donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-5042635626015544052016-04-14T12:48:59.061-07:002016-04-14T12:48:59.061-07:00Dr. Brin,
My relative is not army or navy. A coup...Dr. Brin,<br /><br />My relative is not army or navy. A couple of years after Iraq II, I asked him why we went in. He is very laconic and just said “Because everyone told us that that they had Weapons of Mass Destruction”. In his voice I detected not anger or sadness but disappointment. I never have asked how he votes and we never talk about military affairs because between us in these matters it is “don’t ask and don’t tell”. Last year at my daughter’s wedding, we did talk a bit about the situation with Russia. I asked him if worse came to worse, how would we do? He said, laconically, “NATO would cream them”. That gave me a lot of comfort because in the past during other crises, he has been right.<br /><br />You are right about the bonds. If a bill can pass, all you need is just a yield a bit more than government bonds and they would sell like hotcakes. I just hope that the next president had the political will to act.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-34181032772467469132016-04-14T12:39:54.200-07:002016-04-14T12:39:54.200-07:00Dr. Brin - "All this talk of 4% bonds. Really...Dr. Brin - "All this talk of 4% bonds. Really? 1% sounds high"<br /><br />Deuxglass and I were discussing municipal bonds; treasuries at 1% would indeed be a gift. Munis are always much higher than treasuries, but are currently on par with corporate bonds (which is rather odd in itself...). Some muni ETFs are yielding in the 4+% range right now - look through their assets and it's a mix of bonds with 3-5.5% yields (Deuxglass correctly points out that this yield may be inflated due to maturing bonds, but that shouldn't count for more than a half a percentage given the underlying assets). <br /><br />My purpose in focusing on munis is in response to your comment about infrastructure. It's odd that investment in infrastructure is so low, and the market tends to rectify oddities. The wealth 1% OUGHT to be jumping in and repairing bridges left and right - they CAN get 4% yields right now doing precisely that, without any transactional difficulties. But they're not. Why?<br /><br />Deuxglass suggests they lack the will. I'm skeptical: they'd like returns on their investment, and buying a bonds these days requires no more than a few seconds of clicks. I suggest they lack the money - that they're hiding this fact through their offshore accounts, that the bulk of the wealthy 0.1% has a small fraction of the actual wealth they claim to have (and I could go one step further - the vast majority of their "wealth" is merely a set of calculations of probabilities, which no one is able to validate due to carefully hidden assets).donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-19772801558026405692016-04-14T12:10:52.865-07:002016-04-14T12:10:52.865-07:00donzelion,
Accounting goes way back further than ...donzelion,<br /><br />Accounting goes way back further than we think. If you study primate “culture”, you see that just above all of it is centered around giving and taking favors from other members and our brains evolved to help figure out who owes who. It is the basis for cooperation. Monkeys and humans have a ledger in our brains to figure out all this stuff and in a troupe of 200 monkeys, a single monkey’s survival depends on keeping these relations straight. A successful monkey is one whose books balance. This may seem funny but to the monkey it is a serious as you can get. Monkeys even have an innate understanding of interest. Monkey one gives four bananas to monkey two and monkey two repays the four bananas and gives in addition a first-class grooming job ( a GJ in monkey language) to monkey one. That is interest pure and simple! Animal behaviorists often miss the economic side because in general they have no training in finance. On the other hand, economists focus on arcane mathematical formulas when they should be studying monkey troupes. <br />I am not an accountant even though may job required having a good understanding of the subject but once I understood that accounting is actually a social science, it became clear as water. So all you engineers, mathematicians, and physicists when you cross in the corridor an accountant, please give him a nod and some respect because he is a member of the oldest profession from which has sprung all our all knowledge and accomplishments. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-84357471466579742502016-04-14T12:05:58.563-07:002016-04-14T12:05:58.563-07:00A suggestion; How about we stop worrying so much a...A suggestion; How about we stop worrying so much about the economic cycle and just focus on getting as close to 100% employment as possible and see if things don't smooth out on their own after that?<br /><br />I swear it's pretty hard to blame the dogs for being lazy and not finding a bone when there are 80 bones in the yard and 100 dogs looking.Berialnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-50208685246774718822016-04-14T11:22:48.130-07:002016-04-14T11:22:48.130-07:00Watch timelapse of Venus occulted by moon.
https:/...Watch timelapse of Venus occulted by moon.<br /><a href="https://vimeo.com/161778944" rel="nofollow">https://vimeo.com/161778944</a>sociotardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11697154298087412934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-45123864780795000802016-04-14T11:21:14.949-07:002016-04-14T11:21:14.949-07:00Except tolls are regressive. But then so are Socia...Except tolls are regressive. But then so are Social Security taxes, so maybe that's the political price we have to pay for doing the bloody obvious?Catfish N. Codnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-32316518364150489562016-04-14T10:54:45.613-07:002016-04-14T10:54:45.613-07:00
Deuxglass, my respects to senior officers who can...<br />Deuxglass, my respects to senior officers who can tell the difference. In that case - perhaps reluctantly and holding their noses - they vote Democrat. Because BClinton and Obama actually listened instead of treating them as toys, like both Bushes did, wrecking the reserves and damn near doing the same to the Army.<br /><br />When he became Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Adm Mullen was asked “What’s your biggest worry and concern?” He answered immediately: “The Army.”<br /><br />If the GOP nominated Mullen, I’d actually have to stop and think a minute.<br /><br />All this talk of 4% bonds. Really? 1% sounds high, in this market. It’s almost free money. The problem is that right now it is going to the top 0.1% and inflating bubbles. If it went to infrastructure repair it would raise up poor families, raise dangerously low money velocity and fix dangerous bridges. And could be paid back largely out of tolls and an end to the Bushite Supply Side cuts for the rich.<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-79134594550672765752016-04-14T10:03:35.060-07:002016-04-14T10:03:35.060-07:00@Tim H - ;-)
@Deuxglass -"My personal take o...@Tim H - ;-)<br /><br />@Deuxglass -<i>"My personal take on the matter is that there is too much cash in the world and not enough good projects in which to invest."</i><br />Well, repairing a rickety bridge in America ought to be a very "good project" - the engineering is straightforward, the costs are containable, the country honors its debts, and as you say - I would expect people are willing to snap up 4% bonds. If they're not, something else is going on.<br /><br /><i>"the oldest profession is not prostitution, it is accounting"</i><br />LOL, you'd have liked my approach to teaching political philosophy. Law (and politics) were born alongside mathematics, through variations of the following problem:<br /><br />"Mr. X and Mr. Y built a granary together. Mr. X put 200 bushels of barley in the granary; Mr. Y put 100 bushels of barley in the granary. If the rats eat 10% from all the bushels, and a flood turned 20 bushels into a bitter amber fermented liquid - then how many bushels of barley does each of them have?" Answer: well, they'll probably want to compromise on something, since Mr. X or Mr. Y could burn down the granary and then they'll wind up killing each other...<br /><br />These days, we have Mr. X and Mr. Y claiming to have their bushels in many different countries in secret granaries. They're selling the contents of those granaries to Mr. Z - transparency says we ought to be able to get into the granary to inspect those claims and make sure they actually have what the owners say they have. BUT if Mr. X's family isn't planting barley in his fields, one possibility is that he has so much that he doesn't know what to do with it (which makes it easier for Mr. Z to justify paying for barley he can't see) - but another possibility is that he actually has no barley at all, and can't afford the seeds for the fields he does have.donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-7327013999783787652016-04-14T07:50:47.324-07:002016-04-14T07:50:47.324-07:00Dr. Brin,
you said "Then Deuxglass your imme...Dr. Brin,<br /><br />you said "Then Deuxglass your immediate family does not include soldiers who can tall the difference between wars costing a trillion dollars and ten thousand US lives, tying up US invasion forces of nearly 200,000 men, while ruining the reserves and damn near destroying the US Army..."<br /><br />One of those family members retired a few years back with the rank of Full-Bird Colonel and belongs to the group that you admire. I think he knows the difference.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-59878239484144893862016-04-14T04:56:46.356-07:002016-04-14T04:56:46.356-07:00Donzelion,
I looked up the ETF you mentioned and ...Donzelion,<br /><br />I looked up the ETF you mentioned and it definitely has cash flow from the bonds it owns. They get the coupons and the principle when a bond reaches maturity so if they wanted they would have free funds to invest. The coupon rate really doesn’t matter much. A bond can have a 1% interest rate but if it is issued at a discount then the real yield to the investor could be much higher. Municipalities do this all the time because it lowers the cash they have to payout in coupons. The downside is that they end up paying more when the principle is due.<br /><br />You said,<br /><br />“The better test: if munis were in high demand, you'd see pretty major infrastructure repair/expansion projects. I don't see that where I am, but maybe you do.” <br /><br />That is true but munis are debt and these days local governments are loath to take on more debt these days. Munis are in demand now but the offer is not there because municipalities don’t want to add to their debt.<br /><br />I can’t say for millionaires with offshore accounts buying or not an infrastructure because the will to invest depends on the individual situation of the investor. I can say that if these bonds were issued and if the yields were attractive, then you would have more than enough domestic investors to buy them. The muni market in the US is one of the largest bond markets in the world. <br />My personal take on the matter is that there is too much cash in the world and not enough good projects in which to invest. No major country has instituted either a pure Keynesian economic policy or a pure Supply-side economic policy. Instead they use a mishmash of both methods. Unfortunately, they take the easiest path of both policies for political reasons. It is easier to run deficits and it is easier to lower taxes without taking the effort to measure how well it is working. Deficit spending can stimulate the economy up to a point and cutting taxes can stimulate the economy up to a point also but there comes a time, if continued, when these policies no longer produce the desired outcome. You are then just “pushing on a string”. We are now in the situation where we are pushing on two strings at the same time. Money and debt are just two different manifestations of the same thing exactly like the wave-particle duality in Quantum Mechanics. It is just a ledger of obligations (the oldest profession is not prostitution, it is accounting). Mind you, I am talking in macro-economic terms only. A combination of lower taxes, low interest rates and Quantitative Easing on a massive scale has created way too much money and most of it has been captured by the very wealthy who can’t spend it. There is just too much. In the meantime, the lower classes can’t spend what they don’t have so the result is companies and investors have a dearth of projects on which to spend their money. Companies can’t invest because the consumer can’t buy. What happens is that companies buy back stock with their extra cash and wealthy investors put their money into a series of asset bubbles which break one after the other. Right now government bonds are in a huge bubble and it will pop sooner or later.<br /><br />I didn’t mean to write so much. I just got carried away.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-50356709316587032482016-04-14T03:32:22.408-07:002016-04-14T03:32:22.408-07:00Au contraire donzelion, the difficulty will be fin... Au contraire donzelion, the difficulty will be finding one who isn't.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-52546218273970264322016-04-14T01:23:18.573-07:002016-04-14T01:23:18.573-07:00It's a world Trey Stone & Matt Parker (Sou...It's a world Trey Stone & Matt Parker (South Park, Orgazmo, Team America) might concoct. <br /><br />But whatever happens in Cleveland, there shall be no dildos on the floor.donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-48854650549743219792016-04-13T22:45:46.809-07:002016-04-13T22:45:46.809-07:00Or the Kochs finance a gigantic putsch to take ove...Or the Kochs finance a gigantic putsch to take over the LP? And "surge" it full of their own folks as candidates?David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-60876541052839852892016-04-13T22:43:09.264-07:002016-04-13T22:43:09.264-07:00This absurd article cites a poll showing Kasich be...This absurd article cites a poll showing Kasich beating Clinton in the general, where Trump & Cruz get trounced. Sure... given that 90% of Americans only know that Kasich is the nicer guy trying to sound adult. Now let's see what happens when the public sees his ultra right wing policies.<br /><br />http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/what-if-john-kasich-beat-donald-trump/478008/<br /><br />I confess I have never seen the like. Every scenario has its moment in the sun, then collapses under scrutiny. Trump had it sewn up, but is losing the ground game. He'll just miss a majority... and Cruz and the establishment are bribing defections for the 2nd ballot because Donald was careless in the pre-selection process. Sorry Donald, you can't "fire" your delegates when they screw you.<br /><br />Cruz could make a deal with Kasich and Rubio and the Establishment... that is where I'd put money THIS week. But whether it is to be the nominee (I'm leaning now), or my theory till now that he's always wanted the Veep, I cannot say. <br /><br />I think he can't take the veep now from anyone but Trump, lest he be called a sellout. <br /><br />So, Trump-Cruz? That's my #2 wager at this point. Yes, they hate each other and everybody hates them, but it lets the party escape a circular firing squad spectacle in Cleveland. Atthis point, the ONLY agenda of the GOP moguls is to avoid a bloodbath at the state level.<br /><br />But that doesn't work, either. You avoid a circular firing squad firestorm convention, only to have 40 million Republican voters stay home in November! So... you Arrange for it to be Trump Cruz to avoid that spectacle...<br /><br />...then fifty GOP mavens come out for the libertarian candidate and beg those 40 million goppers to come vote for OTHER republicans in November. Or finance a Yuuuuge "keep Congress Red!" campaign?<br /><br />Finally there's the white knight. Cruz as veep. Ryan would be tricky now. A General? We've discussed that.<br /><br />Heck, at this point draft Bernie Sanders! Cripe. I am a sci fi author, I could not have written this.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-14340899586430456492016-04-13T22:25:13.689-07:002016-04-13T22:25:13.689-07:00And I am now wondering what Trump's stance is ...And I am now wondering what Trump's stance is on dildos? I suspect they aren't utilized in a Trump-branded strip clubs, but that's not the same as defending a universal dildo ban. Trump is probably a pro-Dildo Republican, with Cruz an anti-Dildo Republican. <br /><br />And I'm thinking about all those "concealed carry" laws and...OMG, this is the best thing ever for this election.donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-28623186986301815482016-04-13T21:53:31.485-07:002016-04-13T21:53:31.485-07:00Ted Cruz's College Roommate Is Handling The Di...Ted Cruz's College Roommate Is Handling The Dildo Situation In The Most Hilarious Way Imaginable<br /><br />http://www.bustle.com/articles/154456-ted-cruzs-college-roommate-is-handling-the-dildo-situation-in-the-most-hilarious-way-imaginable<br /><br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-70599900199496553352016-04-13T21:44:38.059-07:002016-04-13T21:44:38.059-07:00@Dr. Brin - something I just discovered re Ted Cru...@Dr. Brin - something I just discovered re Ted Cruz: apparently, he hates dildos.<br /><br />No, and I'm not making that up. As solicitor general in Texas, he supervised the team that submitted a 76-page brief defending the Texas dildo ban that was overruled in the following opinion:<br />http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions%5Cpub%5C06/06-51067-CV0.wpd.pdf<br /><br />Now, maybe in Texas, there's some pressing police emergency that makes dildo prohibition mandatory. Perhaps the Cruz campaign should strap on their dildo dissertation, cramming their message straight up Trump's, erm... OK. So I am loving the thought of Hillary Clinton and Ted Cruz on the stage, with someone from the audience floating a "dildo" question...donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-26026588205727425782016-04-13T21:07:40.259-07:002016-04-13T21:07:40.259-07:00@Duncan -
"The reason that people are not bu...@Duncan - <br /><i>"The reason that people are not building like mad is NOT the availability of money - as you say it's sitting there"</i><br />Oh, I don't mean to say it's "sitting there" - only that it's not coming "here" to build big buildings, roads, and whatnot, and that if investing in the U.S. were lucrative to an investor, it would be. <br /><br />However - <br /><br /><i>"It's the [lack of] political will to spend that money - it's not like a business where if I don't supply the goods somebody else will"</i><br /><br />I'm not so sure. To believe that, one has to believe that the rich people who would benefit from mobilizing that political will to their own benefit are refraining from doing so for some reason or another. These guys CREATE political will, particularly when they profit by it.<br /><br />That said, there is one story that accounts for both concerns: the "wealthy" - esp. those utilizing vast networks of offshore accounts - don't have nearly the amount of wealth they've let on. On this theory, the primary use of offshore accounts isn't to hide enormous assets, so much as to dodge liabilities (yes, tax liabilities, but more importantly, liabilities owed to even more pushy creditors than the IRS). <br /><br /><i>"Infrastructure normally has one big "customer (government)" and the "benefits" go to the people NOT to the "customer"</i><br /><br />Depends on who one chooses to regard as a customer and for which purpose. With a bond market playing between the 'government' and the 'governed' - many parties become customers in one context, and beneficiaries in another. donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-82738830899747551552016-04-13T20:57:23.134-07:002016-04-13T20:57:23.134-07:00@Duncan - "Yes prosperity goes up and down - ...@Duncan - <i>"Yes prosperity goes up and down - but that's NOT a "cycle"...A "cycle" implies that it repeats and is somehow inevitable <br /></i><br />Fair enough. I read that as skepticism towards the models, rather than the observable phenomena themselves. If so, then I see you as offering an institutionalist critique of neo-classical theory.<br /><br /><i>"We can still end up in a recession but it will not have been caused by excessive enthusiasm in a boom!"</i><br />Concur. "Irrational exuberance" is a very useful tool for judging the stupidity of others in hindsight, rather than for guiding policy and plans. <br /><br /><i>"I worry about simply failing into a recession caused by insufficient demand and the consumers having no money"</i><br />So do I, albeit, my fears are expressed in more demographic terms (if (1) starting a home is the largest financial transaction most people undertake, and if (2) few people over 60-years-old start homes, then (3) all other things equal, an aging population will produce less money than a younger population). But the result is ultimately the same...donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.com