tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post4827436346905369790..comments2024-03-19T05:35:07.296-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: The Japan Tragedy, nukes, maturity, uplift and more...David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger208125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-46143433834803010972011-03-26T06:40:56.371-07:002011-03-26T06:40:56.371-07:00Jacob,
"Remember you don't want uninforme...Jacob,<br /><i>"Remember you don't want uninformed people making decisions."</i><br /><br />As opposed to people who pass a law re-defining Pi as 3?<br /><br /><i>"It would put more power in the hands of media."</i><br /><br />As opposed to... Murdoch?<br /><br />No, the biggest gain in influence will be the senior public service. Which is probably no worse than the politicisation that currently occurs. And, new broom every 12 months.<br /><br /><i>"First we need to build the tools which educate while we empower people to greater control over their government."</i><br /><br />We who? The ruling class won't support this. If you ever got a chance to move to Random Government, it will be a single moment, not a slow transformation. First you get the system, then you try to build the support structures.<br /><br />Not what I suggested, but hell of a coincidence...<br />http://news.discovery.com/human/politicians-randomly-selected-elections-2012-110325.htmlPaulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-10019540960277587602011-03-25T22:51:53.263-07:002011-03-25T22:51:53.263-07:00onwardonwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-22384096958443122292011-03-25T22:47:49.370-07:002011-03-25T22:47:49.370-07:00Remember you don't want uninformed people maki...Remember you don't want uninformed people making decisions. It would put more power in the hands of media.<br /><br />First we need to build the tools which educate while we empower people to greater control over their government.Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03773076186367856200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-45273722263598181442011-03-25T16:20:47.460-07:002011-03-25T16:20:47.460-07:00I've always liked the idea of parliment or con...I've always liked the idea of parliment or congress as jury-duty. A random hundred people get selected for the lower house for a year. After six months they choose, from amongst their own, ten to become the next government for one year. (The last ten overlaps by six months, obviously. Provides some continuity.)<br /><br />The upper house is replaced by seperate small "juries" for each piece/group of legislation. They hear the arguments for and against, similar to a court case, then vote to approve or reject/return-with-suggestions.<br /><br />Final stage, the chief justice of the highest court signs it into law. Mostly a token, but serves as a safety net.<br /><br />It eliminates professional politicians, elections (but not campaigning), political donations, parties (in any formal sense). Government by the people, who don't want to be there.Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-29052375260121715702011-03-25T16:17:05.060-07:002011-03-25T16:17:05.060-07:00The Saudi royal family doesn't exactly have a ...The Saudi royal family doesn't exactly have a 100% track record for unity either.<br /><br />In 1964 Faisal deposed his brother Saud.<br /><br />In 1975 he was assassinated by a nephew, also called Faisal.<br /><br />The guy who led the 1979 seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca Juhayman al-Otaibiwasn't a member of the royal family but was a member of one of the most trusted and powerful families in the country.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-38911208247407901792011-03-25T16:16:05.922-07:002011-03-25T16:16:05.922-07:00David,
"ALL of us should be computer enabled ...David,<br /><i>"ALL of us should be computer enabled to join in groups of co-interest and whenever 750,000 people get together and say so... they simply get a congressman."</i><br /><br />Doesn't require computer magic. Nor do you need to register and lose anonymity. It's just a proportional voting system. To handle groups with too few votes for one full Quota, you include instant-run-off (preference) voting. (Unused Number-1 votes go to their number-2 choice, and so on.) Like the Australian Senate system.<br /><br />It doesn't magically make governments more representative, or more moderate. It does give small parties and fringe loons an occasional seat.<br /><br />(Although the major parties hijacked our system by having two options, one too easy, one too hard. Either mark one party with "1", or spend ten minutes marking every single candidate from 1 to 150 (or however many there are this year.) Only a tiny number of people do the latter.)<br /><br />(weroli: The manner in which you write a word you are not sure how to spell.)Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-23326106788161585752011-03-25T15:40:53.622-07:002011-03-25T15:40:53.622-07:00David,
I'm not sure how much loyalty the grea...David,<br /><br />I'm not sure how much loyalty the greatgreatgrandnephews and fifth cousins feel towards the current ruler.<br /><br />Especially since the distribution of the loot from the family racket is heavily skewed towards the inner circle.<br /><br />The guys on the edge apparently get a stipend that in the US would allow them to maintain a comfortable upper middle class existence.<br /><br />Even if there aren't any secret reformers amongst them there are probably some who aren't adverse to earning a little on the side and maybe making friends who'll help them move up to a higher place at the table.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-68531744596276211962011-03-25T12:56:39.404-07:002011-03-25T12:56:39.404-07:00Well it worked well re Indonesia... and (we'll...Well it worked well re Indonesia... and (we'll see) Egypt. But Saudi officers are mostly from the same extended family. Self-interest....<br /><br />The only fair form of democracy is NO LOSERS. The idea of 55% in a district saying "Fuck you!" to 45% is insane.<br /><br />ALL of us should be computer enabled to join in groups of co-interest and whenever 750,000 people get together and say so... they simply get a congressman. Period. If the group breaks up or falls below thresh-hold, they must recruit more members or ally with another small group or lose their representative. <br /><br />Sure, you'll wind up with a couple of dozen stark loony tea party freakazoids and some outright commies. But those voters will be removed from the constituencies that are still geographic, allowing them to DE-radicalize and restore moderation.<br /><br />Above all, everybody is represented by someone they actually voted FOR.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-43801746715880535182011-03-25T08:14:27.497-07:002011-03-25T08:14:27.497-07:00http://derfcity.com/newstuff/newtoon.html
The curr...http://derfcity.com/newstuff/newtoon.html<br />The current "newtoon" is relevant to the ongoing effort to convert labor into neosurfs. on Derf's blog is a link to a Koch brothers boycott page.<br /><br />http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-and-Defeat-Koch-Industries/155879361093898?v=info<br />Not holding my breath for that one to take hold, but "A" for effort.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-70480713067184149512011-03-25T07:44:08.032-07:002011-03-25T07:44:08.032-07:00suggestions for laws dependent on God's existe...suggestions for laws dependent on God's existence:<br /><i><br />That does seem to come up for a few different religious groups. For example, the Jehovah's Witness proscription against blood transfusion.<br /><br />Or whether it's moral to have multiple spouses or eat pork.<br /></i><br /><br />Those are examples where the laws don't apply if God doesn't exist. However, God's existence doesn't make any of those things NECESSARILY moral--you also have to believe in the specific communications from God that said those were actual laws. Also, none of them seem morally WRONG if God DOESN'T exist. You could play it safe and obey those laws just in case God actually asserted them, and no harm done if He's not there. Kinda like Dr Brin's "Things we should do anyway."<br /><br />What I was wondering if there is a real moral CHOICE to be made where before making the correct decision you would NEED to know whether or not God exists as part of your moral calculus.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-4032026960824052132011-03-25T07:36:31.830-07:002011-03-25T07:36:31.830-07:00Paul:
LarryHart,
"nor does it explain "...Paul:<br /><i><br />LarryHart,<br />"nor does it explain "proofs" that bees can't fly."<br /><br />Errr, do you mean "it doesn't explain why people persist in believing the myth that 'science proved bumblebees can't fly' when a two second google search would show it's an urban legend", or are you saying you believe the myth?<br /></i><br /><br />No, I'm questioning why people spend time "proving" that something is impossible when the something is seen to occur by billions of people every day.<br /><br />I suppose I can understand the supposed bumblebee proof having some humor value.<br /><br /><i><br />LarryHart,<br />"can you imagine a situation where IF God exists, then the moral thing to do is X, but if God does NOT exist, then the moral thing to do is Y?"<br /><br />Wouldn't the answer be obeying religious law? <br /></i><br /><br />If any PARICULAR religious laws could be said to logically follow from the existence of God, then yes. But that ends up being the rub, doesn't it?<br /><br /><i><br />(I imagine a lot of our own dumb laws had very local origins. "It's illegal to marry a mule" created specifically to counter one particular smart-arse or loon.)<br /></i><br /><br />I'm not an avid Bible reader, but my wife and I read througn it looking for passages to read at our wedding. We absolutely cracked up over a passage in...Leviticus, was it?...asserting that a woman seeing her husband attacked by another man could NOT come to his aid by grabbing the other man's testicles and stretching them in different directions.<br /><br />There HAD to be a specific incident prompting that one.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-82404360897805472011-03-25T02:28:48.472-07:002011-03-25T02:28:48.472-07:00Onto a separate - topic
I have just submitted to ...Onto a separate - topic <br />I have just submitted to Parliament on the proposed "Road Users Charges Bill"<br /><br />Here in NZ proposed bills and acts have to be published online and we all get to submit our documents or complaints - we can even opt to attend a hearing<br /><br />Now this does not mean the politicians do as we ask (!!!!!!) - but we do get to read the bills in advance and comment on them<br /><br />Bills and Acts are all single purpose units - and start with a description of what they intend to do <br />I have found them to be very clearly written<br /><br />I gather you don't have this in the USA - IMHO this is one of the most important things your Coffee Party or other grass roots organisations should be working for -Duncan Cairncrossnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-90029538502826953402011-03-25T00:15:35.342-07:002011-03-25T00:15:35.342-07:00Re. the training of Saudi air force pilots in the ...Re. the training of Saudi air force pilots in the US:<br /><br />Back during the Suharto dictatorship I asked one of my lecturers if he thoguht it was wise to train Indonesian army officer in australia.<br /><br />His response: "How else are we going to recruit them to spy for us?"Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-26449098641455009912011-03-24T23:34:42.671-07:002011-03-24T23:34:42.671-07:00http://www.aft.org/pdfs/americaneducator/spring201...http://www.aft.org/pdfs/americaneducator/spring2011/Wilkinson.pdf<br /><br /><br />I haven't read this tight through yet but the thesis is interesting - more equal societies produce better outcoems not just for those at the bottom but for everyone.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-41454181021612884702011-03-24T20:10:05.514-07:002011-03-24T20:10:05.514-07:00A post which I'd accidentally posted as Anonym...A post which I'd accidentally posted as Anonymous got reaped.<br /><br />A must-read essay for anyone interested in disaster preparedness and citizen volunteering:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004327.html" rel="nofollow">Learning From The Earthquake</a> by Stewart Brand<br /><br />Warning: The above is short on bravado and feel-good bullshit. It is Brand's account of helping out in the aftermath of the '89 San Francisco quote. It involves death and tragedy.<br /><br />'eurvirboe': I like it, but I'm having trouble coming up with a meaning.Stefan Joneshttp://home.comcast.net/~stefan_jones/kira_grinning_lo.JPGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-530772047120099092011-03-24T18:58:55.895-07:002011-03-24T18:58:55.895-07:00Tony,
I like the idea of participatory democracy....Tony,<br /><br />I like the idea of participatory democracy.<br /><br />Briefly, anyone can nominate to run for Parliament, if they pass a certain number of votes, they get to be seated - and they cast as many votes as they received.<br /><br />(You'd still have geographic electorates so you didn't end up with a Parliament consisting of two people.)<br /><br />Every 3 or 6 months, people could shift their vote to a different candidate.<br /><br />If a representative lsot too much support, they'd lose their seat and there'd be a new elecction in their district.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-48054735097024997712011-03-24T17:06:31.642-07:002011-03-24T17:06:31.642-07:00I have aired a couple of notions for democratic pr...I have aired a couple of notions for democratic procedure:<br /><br />- a form of twitter based democracy forum 'Rook Parliament'<br /><br />- an election every month, one seat at a time.Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-2615679626708981212011-03-24T12:38:21.299-07:002011-03-24T12:38:21.299-07:00Oh, NewSci also have a suggestion for changing dem...Oh, NewSci also have a suggestion for changing democracy so that people are ruled by the party they vote for. Multiple independently operating governments. Like state/council governments, but demographic instead of geographic.Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-60812093414254818782011-03-24T12:33:22.712-07:002011-03-24T12:33:22.712-07:00NewSci has an article about the amount of salt bel...NewSci has an article about the amount of salt believed to have built up in the Japanese reactors as the heat evaporates the water. They estimate 26 tonnes of salt in unit one, 50 tonnes each in units 2 & 3.<br /><br />http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20283-sea-salt-may-be-hampering-japan-nuclear-recovery.htmlPaulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-82712850706862849582011-03-24T11:48:10.632-07:002011-03-24T11:48:10.632-07:00Larryhart asks the most interesting questions:
&qu...Larryhart asks the most interesting questions:<br />".can you imagine a situation where IF God exists, then the moral thing to do is X, but if God does NOT exist, then the moral thing to do is Y? Where the notion of "What is the morally correct thing to do?" actually DIFFERS depending on whether or not God exists?"<br /><br />The answer is simple. WHICH "God"? And which morality?<br /><br />Jonathan Haidt found that most morality boils down to five things: Fairness, Equality, Purity, Authority and Group Bonding.<br /><br />Conservatives (Haidt says) feel that all five are hugely important, while liberals tend to emphasize the first two above all else. <br /><br />Thus, a conservative's fierce enforcement of "moral codes" relating to the last three would seem immoral to a liberal. And the liberal's laxity on those three would seem immoral to the conservative. Of course the conservative also loathes the Purity, Authority and Group measures taken by those in OTHER belief systems.<br /><br />Comments:<br /><br />1) The final three seem based upon group self-reinforcement and meme-tending, and above-all fear. When fear levels are low and group-tending less important, naturally, the first pair will rise in importance.<br /><br />2) For liberals (especially leftists) to claim not to partake in the latter three AT ALL is specious. Purity? There are tons of left-wing purity sanctimonies, and references to authority (though less explicit).David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-34318056669972203082011-03-24T11:36:49.153-07:002011-03-24T11:36:49.153-07:00Or whether it's moral to have multiple spouses...Or whether it's moral to have multiple spouses or eat pork.ellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-89293896334432533722011-03-24T11:26:13.440-07:002011-03-24T11:26:13.440-07:00I'm not talking about the sort of thing where ...<i>I'm not talking about the sort of thing where a Believer might do the right thing out of love of God or fear of Hell, and a non-believer might cheat and do the wrong thing because he neither loves nor fears God. I mean something more along the lines of...can you imagine a situation where IF God exists, then the moral thing to do is X, but if God does NOT exist, then the moral thing to do is Y? Where the notion of "What is the morally correct thing to do?" actually DIFFERS depending on whether or not God exists?</i><br /><br />That does seem to come up for a few different religious groups. For example, the Jehovah's Witness proscription against blood transfusion.sociotardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11697154298087412934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-91974165832648485142011-03-24T10:16:45.847-07:002011-03-24T10:16:45.847-07:00LarryHart,
"can you imagine a situation where...LarryHart,<br /><i>"can you imagine a situation where IF God exists, then the moral thing to do is X, but if God does NOT exist, then the moral thing to do is Y?"</i><br /><br />Wouldn't the answer be obeying religious law? While some of the laws reflect innate human notions, and perhaps others related to practical matters of specific times and places (**), others are not just stupid but downright evil (by modern standards).<br /><br />(** I imagine a lot of our own dumb laws had very local origins. "It's illegal to marry a mule" created specifically to counter one particular smart-arse or loon.)Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-57064451008362652012011-03-24T10:01:34.038-07:002011-03-24T10:01:34.038-07:00LarryHart,
"nor does it explain "proofs&...LarryHart,<br /><i>"nor does it explain "proofs" that bees can't fly."</i><br /><br />Errr, do you mean "it doesn't explain why people persist in believing the myth that <i>'science proved bumblebees can't fly'</i> when a two second google search would show it's an urban legend", or are you saying you believe the myth?Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-25740669623640129532011-03-24T08:31:27.044-07:002011-03-24T08:31:27.044-07:00Obviously it wasn't capitalism that ended life...<i><br />Obviously it wasn't capitalism that ended life on Mars, but the excesses of the revoluntionary vanguard that turned it into the RED PLANET.<br /></i><br /><br />I loved the bit in the "Watchmen" comic (maybe the movie too, but I never saw it) when Dr Manhattan leaves earth to go to Mars and suddenly the Russians threaten nucelar war. "If he had wanted to live on a red planet, he could have stayed on this one!"LarryHartnoreply@blogger.com