tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post3328282375067534235..comments2024-03-28T14:07:18.682-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: A Conversation About Political Maturity: Is it possible?David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-86247346989938069612012-10-16T09:24:16.834-07:002012-10-16T09:24:16.834-07:00Even worse was the film about submarine enigma mac...Even worse was the film about submarine enigma machines U-571. A terrible mishmash that grabbed all the cred for the US Navy that belonged to several british crews. Even the advisor aboard was a yank!<br /><br /><br />--- onwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-12223892342918764442012-10-16T04:20:00.700-07:002012-10-16T04:20:00.700-07:00And if we're to continue the Argo discussion.....And if we're to continue the <b>Argo</b> discussion...well, a lot of Canadians of a certain age range have had some bones to pick with the people who made that film, based on the role of our then-Ambassador to Iran, Ken Taylor, his wife, the embassy staff and others in the rescue of those half-dozen Americans. The original closing "narrator" card - since rewritten after conversations between Ben Affleck and Ken Taylor in the wake of <b>Argo</b>'s premiere at the Toronto International Film Festival - downplayed that role considerably.<br /><br />Hollywood tradition, others have noted in response. They're right to remind us of that habit...but it's another argument for the rest of us up here to build up our own film industry. If necessary, in defiance of the MPAA's preference to treat us as a "domestic market" appendage. Dwight Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14389833479219422837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-31407893135721821562012-10-15T23:34:06.853-07:002012-10-15T23:34:06.853-07:00onward...onward...David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-79820605987581819142012-10-15T19:22:00.584-07:002012-10-15T19:22:00.584-07:00Robert, they may yet try your tactic (if they don&...Robert, they may yet try your tactic (if they don't collapse first), but it would be a horrendous mistake. Yes, it would work temporarily, under the current rules of the Republic. And it would immediately trigger a constitutional crisis.<br /><br />Your scenario is <b>precisely identical</b> to the Fugitive Slave Act... an act which forced the Northern states to do precisely what they did not wish to do, i.e., enforce the laws of the Southern states in the North when those laws were deeply offensive to their populations. It was an attempt by the minority to force their will upon the majority for the benefit of the minority.<br /><br />To say that it backfired is one of the great understatements of all history. And I say this as a descendant of those upon whom it backfired.<br /><br />Abortion is the issue on which there is the <i>most</i> geographic and cultural segregation in this country. Only -- <i>only</i> -- areas which are both deeply culturally conservative <i>and</i> deeply Republican espouse it. Areas where the old Republican traditions still live, like New Hampshire or Minnesota, are disgusted by the whole enterprise.<br /><br />The people of the Blue states -- <i>the ones with the most population, and the ones that make the money</i> -- would not consent to continue to support the current bargain that makes up the Republic under such a scenario. The show of actually demanding a doctor be remanded across state lines for doing something legal in that state would be as dramatic as the soldiers at Little Rock and Selma. It would take the President ordering the National Guard, or the Supreme Court ordering their own Marshals, to make the extradition happen. It would not happen otherwise.<br /><br />I can only pray that if that happened an election would be right around the corner... because I am not sure that the crisis could be held off long enough, otherwise. Abortion itself people would not take arms up about. But the implication -- that Team Red could dictate terms to the rest of us -- would be completely intolerable, and the symbolism of life and death would drive the point home. It would be to the knife after that.Catfish N. Codnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-31851574968048298752012-10-15T18:42:35.924-07:002012-10-15T18:42:35.924-07:00Ian,
I agree with you everything will balance, bu...Ian,<br /><br />I agree with you everything will balance, but that transient has a fairly long equilibration time. During this, you have a generation or so of individuals who are economically disadvantaged and can never, as an entire generation at least, truly make up lost ground. The so-called Lost Generation never really recovered economically relative to their immediate predecessors and successors. I don't think the deleterious effect of this can have should be dismissed by saying that everything will be resolved "in the long run", because something else is also true about the long run as well.<br /><br />While I do not argue in favor of protectionist policies -- that really is a dead end for reasons you have already stated -- what do constructive policies do you propose, with your economic background, to help the people who happen to be caught in the midst of this economic trauma?BCRionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04955960949670858365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-66464160544342261862012-10-15T18:15:02.340-07:002012-10-15T18:15:02.340-07:00The thing with my scenario, Dr. Brin, is that it o...The thing with my scenario, Dr. Brin, is that it only needs the Federal Government to do one thing: put in anti-Roe v. Wade Supremes who feel it is murder. They'll either state it's no longer protected by the Federal Government or even attempt judicial activism (something the Supremes have done fairly often under conservative justices while decrying any such attempts by liberal judges).<br /><br />It's impossible to get 300+ congressfolk to vote on something so controversial. But we have State governments already working to ban abortion and pushing Roe v. Wade for a rematch. These are the folk who will wage war against doctors and force their views on other states... and if the Supremes allow them to by allowing "abortion is murder" laws to stand, then you'll see abortion legally end in all 50 states - some by law, and the rest because no doctor will dare openly perform one.<br /><br />The only benefit to this is that you'll likely see widespread adoption of the abortion pills since it's easy to claim "miscarriage" or the like.<br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-33159682985115246142012-10-15T18:14:14.317-07:002012-10-15T18:14:14.317-07:00It's human nature to do things excessively, an... It's human nature to do things excessively, and the practice of free trade in the United States is no exception, as Smoot-Hawley was excessively protectionist generations ago. I don't want a return to protectionism, I would like to see moderation, and admission of damage, both social and environmental.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-11739349949010295892012-10-15T17:42:06.755-07:002012-10-15T17:42:06.755-07:00"And using U.S. employees to build stuff woul..."And using U.S. employees to build stuff would not raise the cost that much;" <br /><br />Chinese wages are rising (a phenomenon that will eventually solve the problem) but currently you're talking about $5 for a 10 hour day versus $20 an hour in the US for skilled manufacturing workers.<br /><br />That's about a 40-fold difference.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1644623941551907072012-10-15T17:30:37.403-07:002012-10-15T17:30:37.403-07:00I always wondered where the coin op autoterias wen...I always wondered where the coin op autoterias went. I remember at university that Food Services would stock sandwiches in vending machines all around campus, and you could get a quick bite <br /><br />The point I was making was, it didn't work at Burger King etc. Those stores vary their menus so much that you still need humans to get it right. (I dunno about McDonalds...)Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07541997928359883625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-67443357478386688732012-10-15T17:00:33.209-07:002012-10-15T17:00:33.209-07:00I think protectionism would work okay if smugglers...I think protectionism would work okay if smugglers went to prison. I'm not sure I want a lot of it, and experience shows it's not helpful to get out of a depression. It has been long suggested it be linked to human rights in the manufacturing countries of origin, a proposal which makes lots of sense to my untrained eye. And using U.S. employees to build stuff would not raise the cost that much; but then again analysts say a few pennies affects final costs in ways I don't understand either.<br /><br />How did the bat-proofing turn out in the end, Tacitus? I thought of hanging monofilament lines; less visible but surely chaffy.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62137159728068802442012-10-15T16:56:33.047-07:002012-10-15T16:56:33.047-07:00You don't need IT to automate fast food.
I us...You don't need IT to automate fast food.<br /><br />I used to work in a menial blue collar job on the ngiht shift. We had an autoteria. The food was placed in coin-operated compartments. There was a microwave oven if you wanted to reheat stuff.<br /><br />In the US at least these used to be relatively common. (Frederick Pohl descibes in his autobiography how you could make soup out of the free ketchup and hot wter and a 5 cent packet of crackers.)<br /><br />Human-operated fast food joints are actually a sigg of affluence.<br /><br />Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-66473130537667373252012-10-15T16:34:07.374-07:002012-10-15T16:34:07.374-07:00Paul, you must not be from Oregon or New Jersey. (...Paul, you must not be from Oregon or New Jersey. (I have no idea why they don't go to self-serve gas.) <br /><br />Automated fast food ordering systems have been market tested. The end effect, as I recall, was higher IT costs at the stores, customers frustrated at poorly designed touch screen software, and no offset of expenses due to the automation. <br /><br />It didn't make business sense after all. Besides, if someone bothers to go to your store, the chance they're seeking out human interaction is probably pretty high. Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07541997928359883625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-10129278691622874032012-10-15T16:06:12.361-07:002012-10-15T16:06:12.361-07:00But Paul just think how many more jobs you coudl c...But Paul just think how many more jobs you coudl create in the US if you made automatic elevators illegal.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-66086562278189153172012-10-15T15:21:00.410-07:002012-10-15T15:21:00.410-07:00Tacitus2,
Re: Your uplift/companion-animals post o...Tacitus2,<br />Re: Your uplift/companion-animals post on DoE.<br /><i>The Service Industry [...] why not replace fast food counter help with cute capuchin monkeys? They can figure out your order with about the accuracy of sullen teenagers and can push the relevant buttons."</i><br /><br />But so can I.<br /><br />I fill up my own car at the service station. I swipe my own card at every EFTPOS terminal. Hell, I scan my own items at the local department store (not yet at the supermarket. A couple have introduced it, but not at their nearest branches.) I order pizza online through their automated ordering system.<br /><br />Why can't I punch in and pay for my own order on a fast food self service terminal? Hell, even the local drive-through still has a drone shouting though a broken speaker.Paul451https://www.blogger.com/profile/12119086761190994938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62382766850079075752012-10-15T15:02:04.020-07:002012-10-15T15:02:04.020-07:00Robert, your abortion scenario implies that the ma...Robert, your abortion scenario implies that the masters of the GOP actually mean what they say and act on what they claim to want.<br /><br />They ran all three branches of government in the first part of this century... and did almost nothing other than open the jugular of our economy and middle class to be sucked by vampires. The christian right's agenda was shouted... and no pushed forward one scintilla. <br /><br /> Likewise, they now scream about entitlements and government waste. Yet they did less about either thing than happened under Clinton.<br /><br />Of course that may change. If Romney loses, expect the next GOP nominee to be Mike Huckabee, A very likable fellow! And absolutely determined to end the hypocrisy and start the GOP delivering on items from the Wish List.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-79993520727147029692012-10-15T14:43:29.988-07:002012-10-15T14:43:29.988-07:00"If tariffs won't do it, fine, then what ..."If tariffs won't do it, fine, then what will?"<br /><br />You might want to take a look at Germany which has higher wages that the US and a successful manufacturing sector.<br /><br />The key is training and invsting in your workforce so that they're sufficently productive that it's profitable to employ them at developed world wages.<br /><br />The other point I'll make is that the percentage of the wrkforce employed in manufacturign has been falling all over the developed world for decades (starting well before China's industrialiaation). So has the percentage of peopel employed in agriculture. Getting nostalgic about the loss of assembly line jobs makes as much sense as getting nostalgic about the loss of milk maid jobs.<br />Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-74273800655973020842012-10-15T11:17:45.976-07:002012-10-15T11:17:45.976-07:00It just dawned on me how Republicans are going to ...It just dawned on me how Republicans are going to ban abortion in the United States. It won't be through Federal legislation. Instead, after stacking the Supreme Court with anti-abortion judges, one of the Republican states will pass a law outlawing abortion in the state and a law stating that anyone who provides an abortion to a state resident is guilty of murder... regardless of which state the doctor lives in.<br /><br />It will be brought to trial... and the Supreme Court will rule in favor of holding doctors accountable. In short, doctors will be put on trial for first degree murder in anti-abortion states, dragged out of their home state to do so, and then likely given the death penalty. It will be the supreme scare tactic to force the will of the Right on Blue States.<br /><br />It will work, too. No doctor is going to risk giving an abortion or any "day-after" pills or the like for someone even if they have documentation claiming to be from that state because the documentation might be forged and the doctor would be put on trial and then put to death in a Red State. Thus abortion suddenly goes underground once again and women lose their rights big-time.<br /><br />And yes, I can see this happening. Because one of the clarion demands of the neocon movement is to force their viewpoints down the throats of non-Republicans. (What will be interesting is if Red States then start trying to go after foreign doctors who provide abortions to U.S. citizens... and the international outcry against this which would result in the U.S. being a larger pariah than it was under Bush the Younger.)<br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-19481635421079736442012-10-15T08:23:58.326-07:002012-10-15T08:23:58.326-07:00It is completely mistaken to state "Whether y...It is completely mistaken to state <i>"Whether you think Biden was telling the truth or just sputtering, it was not a mature display."</i><br /><br />Ryan lied.<br /><br />Biden laughed in his face. That's a healthy, adult reaction to stupid lies.<br /><br />The immature display was Ryan's childlike insistence that he didn't have to state which "loopholes" he would eliminate, or even whether the home mortgage interest deduction was off the table. Ryan was the classic kid spouting complete nonsense about cars in Finland and almost complete nonsense about wind turbines in China, and then getting upset when Biden called him on it. Ryan's <b>"We will both be better served if you don't interrupt..."</b> was the most childish remark I've seen in watching decades of Presidential debates.<br /><br />Extremists don't like to be contradicted. The pundits are trying to make a case about Biden's demeanor, just as they're trying to make a case about the Libya killings, because they don't have a case on the facts.<br /><br />----<br /><br /><b>Lord Of Light</b> could be made as a mini-series, now that the tech is up to it. The bodyswapping would be interesting to cast.<br /><br />---<br /><br />If @Ian's claim that protectionism doesn't work may be assumed to be true, then what is the future for America? We have the same biology as Indians and Chinese; we have a temporary advantage in education and organization but that can be overcome in a generation or two. We will go down or will they come up? I don't know anyone who objects to them joining our standard of freedom and of living (...allowing for rational worries about energy and the environment, but these are solvable problems ...) but I don't think we want to go down. If tariffs won't do it, fine, then what will?<br /><br />Can we at least agree that it is irrational to give tax breaks for the business expenses associated with shipping jobs overseas?rewinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14008105385364113371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-14577170861967279752012-10-15T08:03:54.751-07:002012-10-15T08:03:54.751-07:00If by Simpson-Bowles you mean committees _like_ Si...If by Simpson-Bowles you mean committees _like_ Simpson-Bowles was supposed to be, yes, that could be helpful. Hammer out a deal behind closed doors.<br /><br />If you mean that _actual_ Simpson-Bowles, that failed horribly. As there were Republicans on it, it decided to wander off into reforming social security and into lowering corporate tax cuts.Neither of which can reduce the deficit.<br /><br />And, let us all recall before we buy into the propaganda being pushed by one political party, it DID NOT PASS. That committee was set up to require a supermajority of 14 votes to pass something, and it didn't have that. Any time anyone talks about 'Simpson-Bowles' like it is some actual real thing, they are attempting to mislead people. The people on the committee, of course, are free to offer any uncompleted work of the committee as their own proposals in Congress, but should not pretend it is the 'result' of Simpson-Bowles. That committee had no actual result. (And the criticism that the 'President' has not done anything about it is sheer gibberish, hoping the American people have forgotten how bills become law.)DavidTCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-77207806597665124002012-10-15T07:06:35.876-07:002012-10-15T07:06:35.876-07:00Ian, "Free" trade isn't even being t... Ian, "Free" trade isn't even being thought out, the oligarchy sees it as magic fairy dust that improves everything, that nice trade representative said so. Seems to me a more equitable implementation of trade policy could've happened, what we got has been very effective at wealth stratification, and driving the Democratic party into the arms of Wall $treet. By the way, think about how well outsourcing worked out on Boeing's 787, at least there, the shareholders got to share the pain of the hourly workers.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-90779855390614940572012-10-15T04:06:52.667-07:002012-10-15T04:06:52.667-07:00A digression: I'm rereading Lester Del Ray'...A digression: I'm rereading Lester Del Ray's "The Sky is Falling" - a rather fun humorous sf short novel - and there's an off-the-cuff reference to a project to build a wall across northern Canada.<br /><br />It's tangential to the main plot but it occurs to me that, maybe, this could work as a form of geo-enginerring.<br /><br />Yes, this is a ludicrously large project - but then so are most of the geoengineering proposals. The wall wouldn't need to be airtight nor would it need to be massive - just strong enough to withstand some pretty strong winds. <br /><br />So would a canvas or teflon barrier starting 10 feet off the ground, suspended between towers and extending up a couple of hudred feet have a signficant impact on the total mass of air?<br /><br />I'm thinking if you build this roughly where the circum-polar vortex circulates you could reduce the amount of intensely cold air coming down out of the high arctic - which would both cool the arctic and reduce the severe winters that have been affecting the northern temperate zone.<br /><br />Now I freely admit this is a crazy idea - but is it crazier than millions of silvered balloons in the stratosphere or thousands of windmills floating in the ocean pumping water up into the atmosphere?<br /><br /><br /> Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-54701717762586942112012-10-15T03:50:11.660-07:002012-10-15T03:50:11.660-07:00"Consider how much more revenue would be goin..."Consider how much more revenue would be going towards paying down the deficit if, say the xbox was assembled here, or the mac." <br /><br />Except nobody outside the US (whch is where the bulk of both Xboxes and Macs are sold) would pay the additonal cost premium. <br /><br />You might force a few Americans to do so, but the vastly higher cost woudl kill most of the market - and the additional money spent by the lucky few rich enough to buy these products would mean lower consumption of other, mostly American, products. <br /><br />I'm sure Samsung and Nintendo would approve of this plan, especially since it'd be next to impossible fror Microsoft and Apple to compete with them in new product development once they were locked out of roughly 90% of the world market.<br /><br />Give it a couple of decades and people would be saying "IPad" the way we used to say "Trabant".<br /><br />Protectionism doesn't work.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-43474495493606646552012-10-15T03:28:10.530-07:002012-10-15T03:28:10.530-07:00That selection of course was not a random one. &q...That selection of course was not a random one. "Lord of Light" is the more or less modern translation of Ahura Mazda the Persian(now Iran) god sacred to Zoroastrianism. <br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahura_Mazda<br /><br />A sly dig or a sneaky way in the door...<br /><br />David your many points are worth pondering but its off to the trenches for me.<br /><br />But a few "uplifting" thoughts. Hope you can appreciate the tongue in cheek parts!<br /><br />http://detritusofempire.blogspot.com/2012/10/uplifting-thoughts.html<br /><br />TacitusTacitushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17007086196578740689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-39945171576279537202012-10-14T22:53:32.697-07:002012-10-14T22:53:32.697-07:00wow.... thanks Stefan,
Ever read my intro to the...wow.... thanks Stefan,<br /><br />Ever read my intro to the classics edition of Lord of Light?<br /><br />It is in THROUGH STRANGER EYES....David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-59240540430939505102012-10-14T21:56:37.994-07:002012-10-14T21:56:37.994-07:00Interesting fact about the real-life incident behi...Interesting fact about the real-life incident behind "Argo:"<br /><br />The faux-movie was going to be based on Zelazny's "Lord of Light."<br /><br />I remember a news story from way-back-then about a <i>theme park</i> based on the books. I wonder if this was a planted item, designed to give "depth" to the cover story.Stefan Joneshttp://www.flickr.com/photos/stefan_e_jones/noreply@blogger.com