tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post3231724635226075565..comments2024-03-28T22:45:34.599-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Learn the true meaning of the political “F-Word”David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger209125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-18320263240638458362017-08-08T12:22:47.295-07:002017-08-08T12:22:47.295-07:00Carl is increasingly desperate. The commonalities...Carl is increasingly desperate. The commonalities of the Nazis and the USSR and Chile's Pinochet and his ilk had nothing to do with "socialism" per se. They all re-built the same feudal pyramid that cheated and crushed competition and oppress 99.9999% of our ancestors. They fiffered a little in the superficial catechisms of their justifying religious priesthood.<br /><br />But Carl knows this. He is flailing and shouting "squirrel!" to avoid the question I keep asking about those 6000 years.<br /><br />Treebeard's assertions are entirely wrong. But I reward his presenting them with non-offensive articulation by saying his name in full.<br /><br />In fact, fascism is a romantic movement that does oppressive feudalism, but whose superficial religion is centered in racial-purity, cyclical destiny, enforced uniformity, obeisance to symbolism, spite toward expertise and utter-utter romanticism. These are somewhat features of Trump, but actually apply to the monsters down the hall.<br /><br />onward<br />David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-64360231982465341632017-08-05T18:31:38.087-07:002017-08-05T18:31:38.087-07:00By the way, Dr Brin apparently has trouble posting...By the way, Dr Brin apparently has trouble posting comments while traveling, but he did put up a new sci-fi oriented post. So you might want to move...<br /><br />onward!<br /><br />onward!LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-82074348680843344142017-08-05T18:30:39.478-07:002017-08-05T18:30:39.478-07:00Paul SB:
Anyway, it's just a partizan sentime...Paul SB:<br /><i><br />Anyway, it's just a partizan sentiment, just like all those "George W. Bush says Miss me yet?" bumper stickers I started seeing on pick-up trucks before Obama was even sworn in. Maybe the sentiment is felt more keenly now by more Americans,...<br /></i><br /><br />I remember the slogan, and how some right-wingers I knew acted as if it represented some sort of universal sentiment. I was all like, "No, I don't miss you at all. You overstayed your welcome as it is." However, if those same bumper stickers or billboards appeared again now, I'd probably go, "Yeah, I do miss you, you big lug."<br />LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-39207195907851622312017-08-05T08:52:43.423-07:002017-08-05T08:52:43.423-07:00There was a German pilot in WW 1 who had the crook...There was a German pilot in WW 1 who had the crooked cross on the fuselage of his Fokker D VII, though I don't remember the name of the pilot. My memory is vague on this one but I seem to remember that Uncle Adolph either worked on or subscribed to a right-wing radical newspaper in Austria after WW 1 that used the same emblem, so I doubt there was any connection with the Boy Scouts. Franco American made pasta swastikas before WW 2 heated up. <br /><br />Wow, aren't we filled with swastika trivia?<br /><br />Tim,<br />If the Republicans lose control of Congress in 2018, Obama might just welcome a third term, but not if it would just be a repeat of his last term. Anyway, it's just a partizan sentiment, just like all those "George W. Bush says Miss me yet?" bumper stickers I started seeing on pick-up trucks before Obama was even sworn in. Maybe the sentiment is felt more keenly now by more Americans, a sit's so obvious that we have been sold out to a gang of thieves. Well, more obvious than usual, anyway. Every Republican administration since at least Nixon has been a gang of thieves. Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-29133590592369139622017-08-05T08:32:18.914-07:002017-08-05T08:32:18.914-07:00Have a look at
obamathird.com
A pleasant thought ...Have a look at <br />obamathird.com<br />A pleasant thought for us, the stuff of nightmares for Obama.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-47807032484022981362017-08-05T06:27:31.635-07:002017-08-05T06:27:31.635-07:00More likely, the Finnish Air Force used the swasti...More likely, the Finnish Air Force used the swastika as an emblem, introduced in 1918.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-82304747904996341202017-08-05T06:21:48.862-07:002017-08-05T06:21:48.862-07:00Any kid with a pencil, pen or stylus re-invents th...Any kid with a pencil, pen or stylus re-invents the swastika out of line segments as a doodle, often before knowing a thing about Germany and history. It appears in middle-Eastern old tiles, old European heraldry and it's a Chinese character. It's ubiquitous.<br /><br />And I think it's just as likely Hitler was reminded of ancient totemistic art history by noticing some Scouts' badges. Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-3246395421094394312017-08-04T22:48:52.710-07:002017-08-04T22:48:52.710-07:00Uber-merchant? When so many of his business ventur...Uber-merchant? When so many of his business ventures were failures or scams? If the Grope hadn't been given millions by his father he would never have made it past used car salesman. The sapling is right that fascism often incorporates a religious element. It was Catholicism for both Franco and Mussolini, Protestantism for Hitler, Evangelism for today's Republican Party. And all of them shared that cult of personality, as did Castro's Cuba, Stalin's Russia and Mao's China. So I guess there's a little flow through his phloem, but not a lot. He still wants to claim that jihadis have transcendental values but leftists do not. Sorry, Paly, but every side in every conflict claims that they have transcendental values and the other guys don't. Pure partisanship with no room whatsoever for critical thinking going on there. Heart rot to the core.Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-44364158865029170702017-08-04T21:39:39.802-07:002017-08-04T21:39:39.802-07:00Donzelion, I never said Trump or the GOP are fasci...Donzelion, I never said Trump or the GOP are fascists; that's what people do who call everyone they don't like fascists without understanding what it means. Trump is an uber-merchant, and most Republicans don't fight for much except their bank accounts. Maybe Trump fantasizes about being a fascist, but Americans make really bad fascists. Jihadists are nothing like this; they actually believe in transcendent values and fight for them. Like Duncan says, fascism is theocratic. Italy, Japan and Germany all had a mystical essence centered around a supreme ruler. This was common in history. I think Leftists distorted fascism at some point to make it sound like a purely capitalistic, materialistic phenomenon -- probably because they have a hard time understanding anything else or they don't want people to realize that there are other idealistic alternatives to capitalism out there.Treebeardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-42239518884038495482017-08-04T20:52:44.715-07:002017-08-04T20:52:44.715-07:00Larry,
The conflation between socialism and the N...Larry,<br /><br />The conflation between socialism and the Nationalsozialistischm was deliberate back during the Cold War. Today most people who spout this stuff are just ignorant. Don't expect Carl to listen to facts, facts don't match his preconceived notions.Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-71417704466399632762017-08-04T20:00:42.073-07:002017-08-04T20:00:42.073-07:00Carl M:
And to go a bit deeper, look up the origi...Carl M:<br /><i><br />And to go a bit deeper, look up the origins the Pledge of Allegiance. It was devised by American national socialists.<br /></i><br /><br />To what end? There's nothing in the pledge about racial purity or anything of that sort. It's not like pledging allegiance to Hitler (or Trump), but to the flag of the United States "and to the Republic for which is stands." Before the theistic "under God" was added during the Cold War, the rest of the pledge went "One nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Not "for whites". Not "for Christians". Not even "for the real Americans who came over on the Mayflower". Certainly nothing about treating others as sub-human slaves.<br /><br />At the risk of repeating myself, that's not National Socialism, but a different thing, in fact the opposite thing.<br /><br />LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-79157364969143766872017-08-04T19:49:27.597-07:002017-08-04T19:49:27.597-07:00donzelion:
LarryHart: "As I said, a circumst...donzelion:<br /><i><br />LarryHart: "As I said, a circumstance arose in which I was (momentarily) glad that W was president..."<br /><br />I never understood that. What, Bush grabbed a bullhorn and shouted, 'Well the world hears you!' (his single most 'heroic' deed) more loudly than Gore would have? He somberly promised to end the regime and kill the bad guys more convincingly than Gore would have?<br /></i><br /><br />It wasn't anything specific about Al Gore. Just a general sense that what was needed in the aftermath of 9/11 was the cocksure certainty of a Republican. It's really hard to explain outside of the moment.<br /><br />And my point in posting that is that, even recalling that there were circumstances which made me think W was a good fit for the situation, I can't imagine a situation that would make me feel the same about Trump. Not something he himself would do, but some set of external circumstances under which he would be better at dealing with the situation than Hillary or Biden or Jeb or Ted Cruz. Any situation that would make one feel, "Thank goodness that this guy is president now."<br /><br />I can't come up with one.<br />LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-76919198109217080992017-08-04T19:41:38.334-07:002017-08-04T19:41:38.334-07:00Zepp Jamieson:
National socialists are Nazis. Not...Zepp Jamieson:<br /><i><br />National socialists are Nazis. Nothing at all alike [with socialists].<br /></i><br /><br />Or as O'Brien might have put it in <i>1984</i> :<br /><i><br />The word you are trying to think of is socialism. But you are mistaken. This is not socialism. National Socialism, perhaps, but that's a different thing, in fact the opposite thing." <br /></i><br />This stuff writes itself. :)LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-92169219879867063962017-08-04T19:23:40.135-07:002017-08-04T19:23:40.135-07:00Actually, the pledge was devised by a plain old ga...Actually, the pledge was devised by a plain old garden variety socialist, a preacher, no less.<br />National socialists are Nazis. Nothing at all alike.<br />Zepp Jamiesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16261339498383415026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62683362341955918812017-08-04T18:31:55.070-07:002017-08-04T18:31:55.070-07:00To say that the Nazis were socialist because of th...To say that the Nazis were socialist because of their name is to assert that North Korea is a democracy, because "Democratic" is part of the nation's official name.<br /><br />Carl, you used to make some kind of sense. You're starting to lose it, man.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11903687674146271189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-26748026336114519802017-08-04T17:55:35.362-07:002017-08-04T17:55:35.362-07:00Jumper, Hitler didn't get the swastika from th...Jumper, Hitler didn't get the swastika from the boy scouts. The name itself is Sanskrit, and when Heinrich Schliemann dug up Troy in the 19th C. he found the symbol in use there, speculating that it must have been a religious symbol of their ancestors - their meaning Europeans generally, but the symbol became increasingly used by right-wing nationalist parties in Germany and Austria to represent Germanic racial purity. The Nazi party adopted it for their own use in 1920.<br /><br />It's odd that the same symbol used in Asia from ancient times also turns up among Pueblo peoples of North America. I vaguely remember an article in Omni Magazine that speculated that the shape could come from a rare cloud formed under unusual meteorological conditions, but I was larval when I read that, so I wouldn't take it too seriously. It's really just a stylized spiral. Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-76132711436641931992017-08-04T17:28:02.081-07:002017-08-04T17:28:02.081-07:00LarryHart: "As I said, a circumstance arose ...LarryHart: "As I said, a circumstance arose in which I was (momentarily) glad that W was president..."<br /><br />I never understood that. What, Bush grabbed a bullhorn and shouted, 'Well the world hears you!' (his single most 'heroic' deed) more loudly than Gore would have? He somberly promised to end the regime and kill the bad guys more convincingly than Gore would have?<br /><br />But many people did feel that. For a moment, the choice to support Bush (or not) came down to what to do after a major foreign attack hits the homeland, something Americans hadn't experienced for decades. <br /><br />Bush, ultimately, wanted to be liked as a leader - where Trump is a cowardly bully profiteer. If the leader wants to be liked, so long as they do a few things (chase the bad guys) and refrain from some others (e.g., locking up every Muslim in American detention centers), then in the crisis, it makes sense to approve. <br /><br />The only time one is grateful for a bully profiteer is when (a) one needs a bully (does one ever?), (b) one shares the profits, or (c) the cowardly sensibility prevents rash wars. The latter is the most probable: some Republicans relish the thought of American troops dying to convert their million dollar debts into billion dollar assets, but Trump will be content to tweet threats (great way to move the needle for certain assets, while those on the inside know to dump them while folks still believe the gambit).donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-82384446354960613782017-08-04T16:55:52.531-07:002017-08-04T16:55:52.531-07:00Swastika merit badges from 1911. Hitler ripped off...Swastika merit badges from 1911. Hitler ripped off the scouts and ruined it.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-83516026289270968382017-08-04T16:01:49.646-07:002017-08-04T16:01:49.646-07:00I have just read Mussolini's "The Doctrin...I have just read Mussolini's "The Doctrine of Fascism" <br />This is one of the murkiest - least clear - lash-up that I have ever read<br /><br />BUT<br />The single most important thread is that it is all about "the spirit" - it is all about what I would call a "Theocracy" - where the god/king guides the spirit of the Nation<br />Everything is subordinate to the "spirit"<br />With the Catholic Church playing a supporting role<br /><br />So my take is Fascism = thinly disguised Theocracy<br /><br />Which with the GOP support for and by the "Christianists"....... <br /><br />Hi Carl<br />I have just read the Wiki on Baden-Powell<br />The scouts used the Swastika - the correct way around - as it was an Indian symbol for good luck - and was on the covers of some of Rudyard Kipling's books <br />They stopped using it after the Nazi started using it<br />One of Powell's biographers (who had never met the guy) decided that he was a Nazi sympathizer - with no evidence!<br />Not a very strong case - putting it mildly duncan cairncrosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14153725128216947145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-5693948503167052712017-08-04T14:53:43.927-07:002017-08-04T14:53:43.927-07:00On preppers. The author is very quotable in this p...On preppers. The author is very quotable in this piece. Ex.: at a prepper gathering, "When I look around the room full of mostly forty-ish guys, I know the number one way everyone in that room could prepare for the end of civilization: lose 40lbs.<br /><br />"I’m no expert, understand, but I figure if the world system crashes, the ability to run five miles without passing out has to be worth something."<br /><br />https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/02/preppers-survivalist-summit-constitution-americas-midlife-crisisJumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-28515608249842114672017-08-04T14:33:31.105-07:002017-08-04T14:33:31.105-07:00Dr. Brin: Have a look at Baden-Powell's entry ...Dr. Brin: Have a look at Baden-Powell's entry in Wikipedia.<br /><br />And to go a bit deeper, look up the origins the Pledge of Allegiance. It was devised by <a href="http://rexcurry.net/" rel="nofollow">American national socialists.</a> (The stiff armed salute began here, albeit with a different hand position.)<br /><br />Carl M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01278814334603631598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1359475574546537022017-08-04T13:45:09.687-07:002017-08-04T13:45:09.687-07:00@LarryHart | I'm curious if anyone else can im...@LarryHart | <i>I'm curious if anyone else can imagine a scenario that would make someone who doesn't already support Trump to be won over and feel some purpose fulfilled by the result of the 2016 election justified the result.</i><br /><br />I can think of one.<br /><br />I usually don't mind it when the feds don't do much of anything useful. There are SOME things they should be doing, but my preferred flavor of small government is 'small scope and let the budgets work out as they may'. When they can't get their act together, they tend to limit their scope in ways I find encouraging.<br /><br />That isn't what is happening, though, so I'm not happy with what I'm seeing. They aren't getting much done, but what they ARE doing is divisive. I'd rather they were inept and innocuous at the same time on any plan that I consider out-of-scope.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-48170654171188969172017-08-04T13:19:46.341-07:002017-08-04T13:19:46.341-07:00Dr. Brin,
I went straight to the jackass's mo...Dr. Brin,<br /><br />I went straight to the jackass's mouth to satisfy the traditionalists among us, but I also ended on the standard linguistic caveat that language and word meanings change, like everything else. Unfortunately there isn't really a widely agreed-upon definition, largely because it has been thrown around so often, spat out by angry teens at their authoritarian parents, etc. Remember the Monty Python sketch where the Pope calls Da Vinci in asking him to redo his painting of The Last Supper minus the kangaroos, and Da Vinci calls the Pope a fascist?<br /><br />Absolute conformity to the point of absurdity, along with authoritarianism, seems to be a widely-held feature. The thing about business interests is common, too. IBM did well for itself under the Nazis, and the original Fasci was quite friendly to certain business interests, just as the Republican party is today. Whether that corruption belongs in the definition is, as far as I'm concerned, up to common usage. <br /><br />One thing I will say is that the sapling's got his roots pretty twisted if he's trying to put a positive spin on fascism. And his xylem's plugged if he thinks that the Republicans are not the primary players in the Game of Pay-to-Play. Nothing is flowing in his phloem if he thinks their constant efforts to cut taxes on the rich have anything to do with his masturbatory fantasy of manly warriors and not simply a way of lining their own pockets and raising the value of their stock portfolios. Terminal brown rot.Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-58706422305867814082017-08-04T12:57:27.753-07:002017-08-04T12:57:27.753-07:00@donzelion,
Yes, I suppose I could end up being g...@donzelion,<br /><br />Yes, I suppose I could end up being glad of a Trump administration if he actually reversed course on everything his administration stands for.<br /><br />That wasn't exactly my question, though. As I said, a circumstance arose in which I was (momentarily) glad that W was president, or at least that a Republican was president at that moment. I was trying to envision a circumstance (An ISIS attack on US soil? A nuclear launch at Chicago by North Korea? Something Mexico or Iran might pull?) that would even momentarily change my mind and make me glad that Trump is in charge. Something that would make me say he's the one for the job. And I mean Trump <i>qua</i> Trump, not a completely re-imagined Trump.<br /><br />I can't see it happening, not even if one or more of the possibilities I just mentioned came to pass.<br />LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-78652369632527709742017-08-04T11:53:58.979-07:002017-08-04T11:53:58.979-07:00LarryHart: "I'm curious if anyone else c...LarryHart: <i>"I'm curious if anyone else can imagine a scenario that would make someone who doesn't already support Trump to be won over and feel some purpose fulfilled by the result of the 2016 election justified the result."</i><br /><br />The fantasist within me can envision a day Donald Trump wakes up and tweets, "My taxes are just too low! Here, I'll show you. Unfair!" then rewrites the tax code to block him and his friends from their main loopholes. I can imagine Donald Trump saying, "Corporatized health is too expensive for most folks! Trump Care will be single payer!" And proceeds to help enact it.<br /><br />Not entirely impossible...Trump was a NY Democrat who converted to the Republican party to win office (as with both Bloomberg and Guiliani). He doesn't actually believe in anything (save his own magnificence), so complete 180 degree pivots cannot be ruled out. <br /><br />That said, I believe the reason we are not in a proto-fascist end game is the Republican party still controls the rank and file at the local level - Trump has some levers of power, but the group of people who clamor in his favor will clamor for his blood tomorrow at the local level were he to break ranks. So long as he keeps the ranks entertained, and shuts off effective governance, they get their money's worth...<br /><br />But I could be wrong. If that group actually is loyal to Trump and winds up flipping the levers of power...well, I'll be working in the resistance until I get rounded up.donzelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991849781932619746noreply@blogger.com