tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post2967170489424407293..comments2024-03-28T15:48:48.514-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Gazing into the cosmos -- Galaxies and Black Holes and SETI and METI (again)David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-48488260486758802102016-08-19T10:21:08.666-07:002016-08-19T10:21:08.666-07:00The scary thing about METI is that any civilizatio...The scary thing about METI is that any civilizations that are actively paying attention very carefully for transmissions like these is the kind of civilization that's we probably don't want to find us.<br /><br />In other words, predators.Ricardo Montachiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11502343883858322775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-28490001268035645142016-08-15T13:02:44.165-07:002016-08-15T13:02:44.165-07:00Deuxglass we were in Paris 1990 & 1991 and yes...Deuxglass we were in Paris 1990 & 1991 and yes I knew the ladies at Brentanos and shopped there!<br /><br />now onward<br /><br />onwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-134103838731079052016-08-15T12:41:48.244-07:002016-08-15T12:41:48.244-07:00LarryHart,
We have the same edition of the Postma...LarryHart,<br /><br />We have the same edition of the Postman. I looked up the pages and there was Nathan Holn. It is a good example of the Big Lie because everything in it was wrong yet it could appeal to those who want to believe that they are truly men. It’s strange that they see themselves as lords and warriors when in reality they would be the new peasants of those with brains.<br /><br />Dr; Brin, I bought my copy of The Postman at Brentano's at Paris in the 80’s. Since Brentano's is one of only two places to buy American science fiction at that time in Paris, I wonder if you went there to buy your books. If so then we could have crossed paths since I went there a lot.<br />Deuxglassnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-18206499788039829772016-08-15T12:07:56.490-07:002016-08-15T12:07:56.490-07:00http://www.alphagalileo.org/ViewItem.aspx?ItemId=1...http://www.alphagalileo.org/ViewItem.aspx?ItemId=167001&CultureCode=en<br />We evolved large brains to process our own social economy, the article claims.<br />I would hesitate to put in comparison tool use as only a minor, smaller evolutionary spur, but I have long thought that primate social psychology underlies a lot more of our intellect than we realize. We categorize everything by rank, it seems, and rank is our specialty.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-14421164809804284262016-08-15T08:03:45.885-07:002016-08-15T08:03:45.885-07:00Off-tangent, but have you seen this article from t...Off-tangent, but have you seen this article from the New Republic on the Republican war on higher education?<br /><br />https://newrepublic.com/article/135972/republican-war-public-universities<br /><br />It documents how Republicans in a few states have been cutting university budgets, primarily (it contends) because of supposed ideological differences. Which pretty much explains why there are so very few Republican professors.<br /><br />(Credit: I stumbled upon it in one of P.Z. Myers' blog posts.)A.F. Reynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-49592220944060310282016-08-15T05:02:38.479-07:002016-08-15T05:02:38.479-07:00Tim,
there will always be a percentage of the pop...Tim, <br />there will always be a percentage of the population who let negativity bias, segmentary opposition and a host of other simplifications go to their heads. At some points in history they are 3 deviations from the mean, at others they are only 1 (the young people I work with, for all their immaturity, give me some hope that we are moving into a time when the racist xenophobes will be 3 deviations from the mean - what Clint Eastwood calls the "Pussy Generation"). It is doubtful we will ever be completely rid of these people. The trick would be keeping them from embarrassing us in front of interstellar society, should we ever actually meet one.<br /><br />Larry,<br />sounds like no Pygmalion Effect on Dr. Brin's part. We can read his novels over and over and love every minute of it, while he has other things to do.Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-71579992197554044912016-08-15T00:04:13.975-07:002016-08-15T00:04:13.975-07:00@Ioan and @David Brin:
Yeah, I was wondering if e...@Ioan and @David Brin:<br /><br />Yeah, I was wondering if engaging the more closed minded humans on these bigger questions might start to act as something of a lock pick...<br /><br />The idea that a common threat would pull us together is one interpretation, Ioan, but my actual thinking was that discussing how to positively communicate and build a productive future relationship with ETIs would be a better angle. I agree that just adding more things to be scared of to brains that spend most of their days pickling in their own adrenaline would be non-productive. Just adds fuel to the fire. <br /><br />So the question is not "how do we avoid getting destroyed by ET?" but "how do we make friends with ET (without getting destroyed)?"<br /><br />I dunno. I'm flailing around a bit to try and find solutions to our current problems. If there is genuinely no way to start to build a bridge with the racists and xenophobes that are holding us all back, then unfortunately we are left with waiting for them to grow old and die out, and hope their kids turn out to be more moderate.<br /><br />But I don't think it is as bleak as that: we already see the spread of moderation and progressive thought just by giving people free access to the internet. This is not just in Western society, but in fact is more striking when you look at the rest of the world. Exposure to strange and new ideas can have a powerful effect on people. Fear is not the only response.<br /><br />Thanks for the links to your papers btw, David - looks good. I'll enjoy those. But for now, sigh, time to go to work.Tim Wnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-35154352998915619642016-08-14T23:37:32.818-07:002016-08-14T23:37:32.818-07:00@Paul SB: The AR emergency use that popped into my...@Paul SB: The AR emergency use that popped into my mind was the aid we would all need to clear a building or campus when active shooters start firing upon us. <br /><br />So-called "2nd amendment people" might want to extend the aid to know who to shoot back at, but I'd be wary of people who think they can deal accurately with misinformation when the lead is flying.<br /><br />@tacitus2: The argument for keeping our attention in the real world was lost at least 70,000 years ago when our languages developed into more modern forms. Most humans live in their heads and only rarely peek at the so-called objective reality for confirmation. The best evidence of this is how badly they react when confirmation fails. 8)Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-32089876502569816522016-08-14T23:17:25.532-07:002016-08-14T23:17:25.532-07:00@Duncan:...you are getting a major benefit in a fr...@Duncan:<i>...you are getting a major benefit in a free house so it is reasonable that you should be taxed on it</i><br /><br />What?! No.<br /><br />I'm losing my last parent to get that house. There is nothing reasonable about you all getting a share.<br /><br />Sorry. It is only income because that is how the IRS defines it. It isn't income, though. It is assignment of family assets assuming a parent chooses to treat their property as family property.<br /><br />This is fundamental stuff, people. Family is an ancient human structure. There are people who do not recognize the boundary between individuals the way Randians do and they object on moral grounds when property exchange within a family is treated like property exchange between families or unattached individuals. You can pretend such exchanges are income, but they won't and they WILL respond in some way you are unlikely to foresee and are unlikely to like.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-52874197050701134272016-08-14T21:57:07.202-07:002016-08-14T21:57:07.202-07:00"BTW, on the subject of METI, I'm for kee...<i>"BTW, on the subject of METI, I'm for keeping our mouth shut and ears open."</i><br /><br />The logical conclusion being the scenario I call the 'Earie Silence' ("Great Scott! Is that...tinnitus?")Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-46703856311946310282016-08-14T19:36:43.707-07:002016-08-14T19:36:43.707-07:00Dr Brin:
Dang. Forgot that entire scene, LarryHar...Dr Brin:<br /><i><br />Dang. Forgot that entire scene, LarryHart. That younger me was pretty sharp! ;-)<br /></i><br /><br />Funny, I always presume that an author knows his own work better than I do. It doesn't really sink in that you might have put the book behind you in 1985, whereas I've read it several times in the interim.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-6697666203444177102016-08-14T19:16:28.006-07:002016-08-14T19:16:28.006-07:00Here's a brief but good little article on how ...Here's a brief but good little article on how far our radio signals have traveled since the days of Marconi, with a good graphic that makes the point very well. The author ends by mentioning signal attenuation, though not in any quantifiable way, given that any alien technology to receive such signals would be a total unknown, should any happen to live within that tiny bubble.<br /><br />http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/3390.html<br />Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-56346017654892561902016-08-14T18:32:08.437-07:002016-08-14T18:32:08.437-07:00There might actually be interstellar communication... There might actually be interstellar communication going on that is simply undetectable with current technology, for example, if David Sarnoff could receive a few hours of NBC's 2016 programming in 1949, would he recognize it as such? Or even notice it at all?<br /> BTW, on the subject of METI, I'm for keeping our mouth shut and ears open.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-37329997874836365502016-08-14T16:51:46.357-07:002016-08-14T16:51:46.357-07:00"Dang. Forgot that entire scene, LarryHart. T..."Dang. Forgot that entire scene, LarryHart. That younger me was pretty sharp! ;-)"<br /><br />- Sounds like you are regretting that last regeneration...Paul SBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-91354929595282696022016-08-14T16:38:38.467-07:002016-08-14T16:38:38.467-07:00Didn't know I connected the two. Musta been a...Didn't know I connected the two. Musta been a reflex.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-63272761557670677572016-08-14T16:24:13.191-07:002016-08-14T16:24:13.191-07:00Dr. Brin,
I wasn't arguing either side of the...Dr. Brin,<br /><br />I wasn't arguing either side of the METI debate. Tim had said that perhaps introducing the METI debate would moderate Trump and Brexit supporters, and I responded no. You're right on the actual motives of both sides, but I was arguing perception here, not reality. Truth be told, I don't think the neo Confederates care about the METI debate either way.Ioannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-70629235950815623862016-08-14T15:44:46.162-07:002016-08-14T15:44:46.162-07:00Dang. Forgot that entire scene, LarryHart. That y...Dang. Forgot that entire scene, LarryHart. That younger me was pretty sharp! ;-)David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-65118131430860205022016-08-14T15:43:54.018-07:002016-08-14T15:43:54.018-07:00Interesting read. Interesting lesson. Take the g...Interesting read. Interesting lesson. Take the good with the bad, and never forget either. Go science! <br /><br />Frankly I prefer focusing on all the interesting things you're talking about (and many others in the many fields of futurology), as opposed to the more mundane aspects of geo-politics. Unfortunately it's damnably hard to get away from the constant drone of news feeds dedicated to re-hashing the same tired information. Then again, awareness is always better than ignorance, no matter the subject. <br /><br />I'm somewhat intrigued by how others balance their innate desire to know with the constant stream of distractions flying our way. Perhaps our collective consciousness can come up with a few filtering guidelines, eh? DonRMontgomeryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15584872985193975108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-44189662028164739662016-08-14T15:43:19.045-07:002016-08-14T15:43:19.045-07:00Re - AR
As somebody who tinkers and fixes things (...Re - AR<br />As somebody who tinkers and fixes things (mostly) the Hayes manuals have been very very useful but YouTube is even more useful<br />(manuals are very very difficult to write!!)<br />So AR should take us to the next stage - I don't know if it will be a big step up or a small one<br />I expected YouTube to be a small increment but I have found it to be a large improvement over a paper manual duncan cairncrosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14153725128216947145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-9520539410009493102016-08-14T15:37:51.058-07:002016-08-14T15:37:51.058-07:00Hi Guys
Larry immediately identified the problem w...Hi Guys<br />Larry immediately identified the problem with taxing inheritance as income,<br />"Because there's nothing to pay taxes with unless one gives up the gift entirely"<br /><br />And then Dr Brin found the solution<br />"tax that can be paid off across 20 years. Plenty of time to make the family farm or business work"<br />That would apply to a house you inherit as well - you are getting a major benefit in a free house so it is reasonable that you should be taxed on it<br />duncan cairncrosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14153725128216947145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-41405721007198356992016-08-14T15:37:12.552-07:002016-08-14T15:37:12.552-07:00Thanks LH.
Deuxglass, Earth was prime real estate...Thanks LH.<br /><br />Deuxglass, Earth was prime real estate with a partly oxygen atmosphere for 2 billion years with only crude bacteria and archaea in the seas and nothing on land. ONE alien toilet flush and all would have changed, Visible in our rocks.<br /><br />See my story about this in INSISTENCE OF VISION!David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-18267163178092731742016-08-14T15:30:04.072-07:002016-08-14T15:30:04.072-07:00that's...the same in all editions
D'oh!that's...the same in all <b>editions</b><br /><br />D'oh!LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-28547935203155485432016-08-14T15:29:17.132-07:002016-08-14T15:29:17.132-07:00Dr Brin:
You got a page number on that LOST EMPI...Dr Brin:<br /><i><br /> You got a page number on that LOST EMPIRE bit?<br /></i><br /><br />Well, in my 1980s-era paperback, it's page 252. I wasn't sure page numbers are the same in all additions, which is why I cited Chapter 13 of book 3 ("Cincinnatus").<br /><br />BTW, your having the character read a book written by Nathan Holn reminded me of Winston's reading the book by Goldstein in "1984". IIRC, Winston was even asked if he had ever actually read Emmanuel Goldstein before he was given the book in phrasing similar to when Gordon was asked if he had ever read Nathan Holn. Was the homage intentional? LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-61948674360087040422016-08-14T14:52:38.433-07:002016-08-14T14:52:38.433-07:00Dr. Brin,
I gave a "tongue in cheek" the...Dr. Brin,<br />I gave a "tongue in cheek" theory mainly to pop our human-centric bubble that assumes that we, as a sentient species, have worth to the Universe in general. Why should we assume that we are unique and that advanced civilizations would welcome us? Perhaps planet-bound civilizations like ours are a dime a dozen and literally not worth writing home about.<br /><br />Why haven’t we found evidence of civilizations passing through our solar system in the past is an intriguing question. My guess is that advanced civilizations are very efficient and recycle everything back into something useful and then take it with them when they leave. They essentially clean up their litter leaving no trace of their presence. It could be that most life arises in ice-covered water worlds and their civilizations would have no interest in a world like Earth but instead visit worlds like Europa and such. The traces they have left would be under its ice and any installations on the surface would have been erased by moving ice long ago. We couldn’t see anything of them with what we have now.<br />Deuxglassnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-46662521963646993932016-08-14T14:08:24.156-07:002016-08-14T14:08:24.156-07:00Deuxglass interesting link. As for your theory --...Deuxglass interesting link. As for your theory -- you assume a lot of uniformity out there, when it will be easy for advanced races to make all sorts of variations of themselves or deputies or sub-entities, and those will flow into any niche. Including niches that are interested in newcomers or lower races. And those lower races will NOT be innumerable or as easily shrugged off as ant colonies. The scales are very different. Any new tech race is “news.”<br /><br />I’m not saying you are wrong. It just presumes a limitation on dispersal - by geography, eco-niche and sub-types - that would then require an explanation of its own. As to why there isn’t enough variety to make exceptions to the rule.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.com