tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post2263669790564243970..comments2024-03-28T23:39:08.616-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Tales of Divisiveness - and the drug high of indignationDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-84256404605151826912018-10-30T01:45:15.007-07:002018-10-30T01:45:15.007-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.siskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07076079736141144027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-72525140727362719092015-09-29T12:10:13.165-07:002015-09-29T12:10:13.165-07:00Oh, and I had to leave this out because I ran out ...Oh, and I had to leave this out because I ran out of space, but, yes, the ministerial housing allowance thing is nonsense. It's one of the few things that only seems to apply to religious NFPs, and it is easy to abuse.<br /><br />There is actually no justifiable reason for it to exist...presumably, *all* people who are employed at *all* non-profits have to have housing, so why do only churches get an exemption, and only for 'ministers'? (At least in theory...the courts said that everyone a church wants to call a minister is one, under the same 'must be an ordained minister to marry people' nonsense that has a trivial work-around.)<br /><br />I can see some sort of income tax exemption to benefits for people who live *on-site* in a NFP. I think a priest that lives in the back of a church maybe shouldn't have to pay income tax on the hypothetical amount of 'housing' he receives. *Maybe*. Actually, no, but that's not really the issue here.<br /><br />Ignoring that, churches certainly shouldn't be able to just *give* ministers money that they use for anything (Even if it legitimately paying for housing!) and yet the ministers don't have to pay taxes on it. *Everyone else* has to pay taxes on money their employers pays them, *even if* they spend that money on housing, so why do ministers get some special exemption?DavidTChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08324934557134380402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-24836790937079580342015-09-29T11:59:34.458-07:002015-09-29T11:59:34.458-07:00Brin, you need to do a lot more research on how no...Brin, you need to do a lot more research on how not-for-profit's (NFP) taxes actually work.<br /><br />Firstly, there *is no* religious exemption to taxes. Churches are under the 501(c)(3) NFP status, aka a 'charity', just like your local museum or literacy organization. There is absolutely no difference, and the IRS does not care if they are religious or not. They do not pay corporate income tax and donations to them are tax deductible. And states exclude them from property taxes because they are NFP, not because they are churches.<br /><br />Or is the idea we're going to start taxing NFP museums and theatres based on *their* floor space vs. membership numbers? <br /><br />That raises problems...for example, a lot of museums have a 'board/membership' structure where the board is the entire membership, which means they have only like 11 members. And now you can't be a member of the local church *and* a member of the charity that runs the local homeless shelter?<br /><br />Also, I'm a bit confused by the idea that only the first $20,000 of employee pay would be tax exempt. If you work for a NFP, you pay personal income tax on that income just like everyone else. None of the pay is exempt.<br /><br />Do you mean that the NFP would have to pay corporate income tax on it? That's a pretty damn weird version of the tax code, because right now, even for-profit corporations *do not* pay corporate income tax on employee pay. Corporate income tax is a misnomer...it's actually corporate *profit* tax. Corporations are allowed to deduct, basically, everything, including employee pay, and really end up only paying income taxes on the profits they distribute to their owners (Which NFPs can't do), and any money they haven't spent at the end of the year. (Which NFPs don't have to pay taxes on, and is really the sole advantage to them in the tax code.)<br /><br />The problem here, and it's a general NFP problems instead of just a church problem, is NFPs that pay extremely large salaries, and also provide a lot of perks for specific higher-up employees. Charities that don't actually do *any* charity, and exist mostly, it seems, to have employees who get paid. Or for the fun of their members.<br /><br />What we actually need is some sort of 'What benefit is this charity providing to the community, vs just the members and employees?' The problem is...that's *really* hard. A church is going to argue that *church services* are the benefit it provides...and church services are, in fact, open to all. (In fact, a church has a better claim there than a NFP museum or theatre that charges at the door.) The fact the benefits *mainly* accrue back to the members is just because no one else takes advantage of them. (And with membership usually being free, unlike with most NFPs, there's even less to complain about.)<br /><br />Here are some of my ideas:<br /><br />First, create a status 501(c) status besides (3), or fix 501(c)(4). The difference is that donations *to* a (3) are tax deductable for the donator...and there should be some harsh rules that require a (3) to actually do *charitable* work...and spreading their own message shouldn't count as charitable. It should be possible to fall out of (3) one year, and have to work your way back into it.<br /><br />Aka, if the IRS determines you're mostly in it for your own members, you have to show you're not...or you can join the unions and secret societies and hunting lodges *elsewhere* in the 501(c) codes. Still don't pay corporate taxes, but the personal tax deduction is gone until you start doing some *good* with that money.<br /><br />Second, and this is a state thing, create a cap on the amount of property tax that is exempt. Basicing it on the members is probably not a reasonable idea, but I don't see what's so bad about an absolute value, or something tied to property values.<br /><br />Third, require salary justifications above a certain point, based on the job duties of that person. Salaries should be roughly in-line with other NFPs.DavidTChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08324934557134380402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-30886626318915820302015-09-26T06:51:58.487-07:002015-09-26T06:51:58.487-07:00@Paul451
That's true, but it's the establ...@Paul451<br /><br />That's true, but it's the establishment Republicans he can't burn bridges with, not the Tea Party. I'm watching for some payback.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-52972959868482470902015-09-26T05:32:37.171-07:002015-09-26T05:32:37.171-07:00LarryHart,
Boehner is running for "high-paid ...LarryHart,<br />Boehner is running for "high-paid lobbyist". He can't burn too many bridges on his way out the door or it reduces his value to his new employers. Don't expect any sudden budget deals with Dems and moderate Repubs against the extremists.<br /><br />[Aside: High functioning alcoholics are weird. Never understood how they get into positions of power. Wealthy bored socialites, has-been celebrities, those I understand. But Speaker of the HoR? How?]Paul451https://www.blogger.com/profile/12119086761190994938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-3751827000174063232015-09-25T23:10:13.778-07:002015-09-25T23:10:13.778-07:00@matthew: [you]->strawmanned([me], when=[you]-&...@matthew: [you]->strawmanned([me], when=[you]->made([me]->flip([the tortoise], [its]. back))];Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1282376840206926352015-09-25T19:35:36.858-07:002015-09-25T19:35:36.858-07:00Tacitus2:
I have always respected Boehner. Now th...Tacitus2:<br /><i><br />I have always respected Boehner. Now that he is retiring Dr. Brin is allowed to say something nice also.<br /></i><br /><br />I'm waiting to see what he gets done in Congress without having to worry about maintaining his speakerhood. I may have some <b>very</b> nice things to say about him in the next few weeks.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-79563733126105100332015-09-25T19:22:39.529-07:002015-09-25T19:22:39.529-07:00Western (More or less) civilization is already mov...Western (More or less) civilization is already moving towards lower carbon use, not as fast as some would prefer, but even if Al Gore had "Done a Cameron", it's not stopping. if the recession ever ends for the 99%, the new goods will be more energy efficient than the old.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62637568112396001332015-09-25T16:34:00.083-07:002015-09-25T16:34:00.083-07:00I can't be an AI because I have clear childhoo...<br />I can't be an AI because I have clear childhood memories. In particular, I remember a spider that lived outside my window: Orange body, green legs. I watched her build a web all summer, then one day there's a big egg in it, and then the egg hatched, a hundred baby spiders came out... and they ate her. ;)<br /><br />Boehner is running for Vice President.<br /><br /><br />Best<br />locumranchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-86216963763448572292015-09-25T15:21:47.535-07:002015-09-25T15:21:47.535-07:00Nehemiah Scudder = Ben CarsonNehemiah Scudder = Ben Carsonduncan cairncrosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14153725128216947145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-51397351249077313642015-09-25T14:38:31.912-07:002015-09-25T14:38:31.912-07:00When is Nehemiah Scudder going to throw his hat in...When is Nehemiah Scudder going to throw his hat into the ring? He seems to have missed the 2012 election. Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-78834114779838049872015-09-25T14:36:03.262-07:002015-09-25T14:36:03.262-07:00@matthew - that was an empathy test. I wonder how...@matthew - that was an empathy test. I wonder how many enthusiastic followers of the Republcan presidential candidates would pass it today?Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-40695660207045315502015-09-25T14:20:07.483-07:002015-09-25T14:20:07.483-07:00I have always respected Boehner. Now that he is r...I have always respected Boehner. Now that he is retiring Dr. Brin is allowed to say something nice also.<br /><br />TacitusTacitushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17007086196578740689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-67511448502803358982015-09-25T14:06:46.140-07:002015-09-25T14:06:46.140-07:00Appropriate posting for Boehner's retirement a...Appropriate posting for Boehner's retirement announcement. A conservative driven out by the loonie right fringe.<br /><br />The beginning of the end of the Republican Party as a national party? Not good for the US long term.SteveOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-91533413783755812562015-09-25T12:45:38.311-07:002015-09-25T12:45:38.311-07:00I often wonder if locumranch is, in fact, a quite ...I often wonder if locumranch is, in fact, a quite normal person role-playing one of David's aliens from "Existence." Cosplay trolling, to coin a term. <br /><br />Or maybe he is an AI and this group is a Turing test. Try this one - <br />"You’re in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down, and you see a tortoise, it’s crawling toward you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t, not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that?"<br /><br /><br />matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17757867868731829206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-6251278402234062122015-09-25T12:24:37.961-07:002015-09-25T12:24:37.961-07:00It looks to me like the ICCT group is an example o...It looks to me like the ICCT group is an example of a successful citizen group AND shows how we expect government to play a healthy role in a transparent society.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-73715656798831284142015-09-25T12:13:35.915-07:002015-09-25T12:13:35.915-07:00Dr. Brin,
Congratulations on being named the Dist...Dr. Brin,<br /><br />Congratulations on being named the Distinguished Visiting Fellow at Bard College. The list of conferences you will give look extremely interesting. Will they be recorded and is there a way to participate from afar? Deuxglassnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-58280796501174893922015-09-25T12:12:17.606-07:002015-09-25T12:12:17.606-07:00@locumranch: You are just showing your lack of kno...@locumranch: You are just showing your lack of knowledge regarding science. I forgive you, though. Most of us don’t teach it properly to the pre-meds. We teach it as dogma far too often.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-35349937495808909772015-09-25T12:07:23.493-07:002015-09-25T12:07:23.493-07:00@Paul451: That's extraordinarily naive. The pe...@Paul451: <i>That's extraordinarily naive. The people I'm talking about already argue that there are no other evils except "coercion", as narrowly defined as possible. That's why they define it so narrowly.</i><br />Not really. I’ve no doubt the people you describe exist. I’ve met some. I also have no doubt there aren’t many. Their strength comes from alliances. The people you describe will try to convince their allies they hold the moral high ground. Our task is to cast doubt on that belief. As for the few left who will fight you no matter what, I have no qualms with punching them in the nose (or worse) to remind them that their tiny minority doesn’t get to dictate the moral code we use.Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-24385789098539078272015-09-25T11:20:42.470-07:002015-09-25T11:20:42.470-07:00https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Sel...https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Self-Employment-Taxes/Ministers-and-Taxes/INF12069.html<br />I see, it is the <i>church</i> that cannot claim to be paying the pastor, for example, $100,000 a year in "housing allowance" when the pastor lives in a $40,000 per year (fair market value) situation.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-49736723530372138152015-09-25T11:05:10.139-07:002015-09-25T11:05:10.139-07:00Few would argue vociferously against taxing non-re...Few would argue vociferously against taxing non-religious non-profits, if they were all taxed equally. That is indeed the difference.<br />On taxing religion, I suspect we here are sort of attempting to re-invent the wheel in our discussion. I think the IRS has a long history of experience, and if I'm not mistaken, they spot check sometimes and have requirements for what constitutes an actual religious tax exemption for an organization, such as "do they have regular actual church services" and whatnot. And as I mentioned the rules on individual pastors the IRS has this<br />http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc417.html<br />but I don't understand their exclusions on housing provided.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-21259793403495859782015-09-25T10:36:42.233-07:002015-09-25T10:36:42.233-07:00One thing I find interesting in this election cycl...One thing I find interesting in this election cycle is that no matter how revolting the statements from the leading candidates, the more they rise in the polls. There seems to be a significant fraction of the US population that agrees with what they have to say. The US loves to say that the US could never become like interwar Germany, but it looks increasingly like some fraction of the population does.<br /><br />Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-92074401193946614162015-09-25T10:32:27.131-07:002015-09-25T10:32:27.131-07:00@ Laurent. Agreed. I see this as classic "1...@ Laurent. Agreed. I see this as classic "1984". Chinese self censored before. Now it will be massively multiplied. US citizens self censor much more than they think, which is exactly how the authorities like it - the citizen doesn't even realize it because it is so commonplace.<br /><br />No doubt the Chinese authorities see this as "transparency" (one way of course) and that if you have nothing to hide (about criticizing the government), it won't be a problem for you.Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-10698292960394530292015-09-25T10:28:01.809-07:002015-09-25T10:28:01.809-07:00@deuglas .
I think we may be arguing at cross pur...@deuglas .<br /><br />I think we may be arguing at cross purposes.<br /><br />I see the overall process as:<br />1. Observe a problem<br />2. Run process to fix problem<br />3. Problem resolved by changed system<br /><br />The ICCT have done part 1. This has been the traditional role of NGOs, investigative journalism, etc. It now includes camera evidence from smart phones.<br />Part 2 required the EPA. Part 3 is still to be resolved in the VW case.<br /><br />Part 2 requires some sort of coercive action by an authority or institution with power. We usually rely on the courts and regulatory agencies to handle that. Sometimes that doesn't work, as in the case of the NSA just ignoring the courts.<br /><br />My issue is that some people seem to think part 1 magically leads to part 3 by some sort of hands off "invisible hand" mechanism. But as Adam Smith noted, when businessmen meet it is often to collude to bilk the buyers. Our modern versions are "self regulation" and buying the legislators to make favorable laws, like TTP and TTIP. The arch Randian libertarian, Alan Greenspan thought banks would self-regulate, and finally admitted he was wrong after the 2008 financial meltdown. Self regulation doesn't work well, but it seems attractive to those who want small government. Even regulation needs a watcher to watch the watchers. As we've seen with the SEC, Ms White has been completely captured by the Wall Street banks and refuses to let her agency actually do its job. Exposing more abuses won't change anything without some coercive power being used.<br /><br />So my issue is how to get part 2 to work effectively and not be derailed, so that we get to problem resolution that is acceptable to the citizenry, not the [bad] actors. We'll see how the VW case pans out. However even though they are a foreign company, they won't get the maximal fines or anything near it. (The BMW division appears not to have been involved based on tests of their cars).Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-33194418017419741612015-09-25T10:24:39.811-07:002015-09-25T10:24:39.811-07:00"China is building a reputation engine. can y..."<i>China is building a reputation engine. can you say "censorship"?</i>"<br /><br />It goes farther than that: censorship is about stopping the memes that displease the Powers That Be from Spreading. Here we reach the next level: using technology in the hope of <b>enforcing conformism</b>.<br /><br />Of course, such cyber-stasi if implemented will end up costing so much resources and alienating so many people (expect many good, obedient subjects of the regime to become false positives as a result of unforeseen kinks in the algorithms, which won't be corrected because authoritarian states never acknowledge their mistakes) that it will just hasten the regime downfall and increase the likelihood that it will be a bloody one.Laurent Weppenoreply@blogger.com