tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post2260744182014492598..comments2024-03-28T12:42:22.578-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Is Theology Compatible with Science, Progress and Sci-Fi?David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-32584057639395383612010-12-25T20:57:43.473-08:002010-12-25T20:57:43.473-08:00@rewinn @David,
Thats interesting what you say abo...@rewinn @David,<br />Thats interesting what you say about the Buddism arguments. I guess if you were "Awakened" to whatever was the truth to salvation you would not want others to stay alseep. But If I awakened on a burning ship I would try to help up to the point I had to catch the life raft. I don't see a scrifical analogy here with Mother Theresa. Such as running out of time or there being only 1 more seat on the life raft because God is infinite and has a plan etc. I would have to read the book and see how it turns out. So many ways you could go with that story.nobody111https://www.blogger.com/profile/13572089264418582034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-90734570142592575272010-12-25T19:43:55.887-08:002010-12-25T19:43:55.887-08:00@Nadia - I should not try to condense Bishop Spong...@Nadia - I should not try to condense Bishop Spong's description of early Christians, except this: their idea of universal personhood is NOT some mystical "Force" thingy or indeed supernatural at all, but rather a change away from classical Judaism's restriction of divine favor to one particular "people set apart" "Chosen by God". Early Christians believed that divine favor (whatever THAT may be) was equally available to all, regardless of tribe, family or nation. This was a radical notion for the time and place, although some Buddists tell me Jesus not the 1st to think of it.<br /><br />@Dr. Brin - Doesn't your "Mother Theresa's Hypothetical Journey" echo the split in Buddism on whether you should concentrate on perfecting yourself (and personally escape the Wheel of Suffering) or on helping others perfect themselves (keeping yourself on the Wheel in order to help others escape)? The large number of doctrinal disagreements arising from this (king-like bodhisatva vs. boatman-like bodhisatva vs. shepherd-like bodhisatva!!!) might provide fuel for an almost endless cycle of fiction. The Greater Vehicle does some more noble than a focus on personal transcendence, but history reminds us that even the noblest of paladins and crusades can go astray.rewinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14008105385364113371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-26761336519083182742010-12-24T22:37:55.742-08:002010-12-24T22:37:55.742-08:00My feelings about afterlife ar 1 part angry atheis...My feelings about afterlife ar 1 part angry atheism, 1 part blithe and cheerfully "What Me Worry?" agnosticism, 1 part a quasi Mormon belief that skill and hard work will please a master Çreator... for which he will reward you with MORE skill, responsibility and hard work...<br /><br />...and about 3 parts Jewish attitudes that the afterlife may happen, but it is rather irrelevant to this life and the supreme importance of THIS world, rather than the next.<br /><br />Ah, but you want my fictive afterlife? Have a look at:<br />http://www.davidbrin.com/stonesofsignificance1.htmDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-39661453733011672002010-12-24T15:21:41.515-08:002010-12-24T15:21:41.515-08:00Heinlein's afterlife was patterned after Mark ...Heinlein's afterlife was patterned after Mark Twain's, Niven & Pournelle's after Dante. I'd be interested in your take, but don't spoil the surprise.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-72479883704434350582010-12-24T15:00:42.808-08:002010-12-24T15:00:42.808-08:00I never said her plan would turn out well for her....I never said her plan would turn out well for her. I simply contend that by the described cosmology that she was taught, her action would be both impudent (questioning God's will) and profoundly more morally generous and good than any other saint.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-91931877869616714082010-12-24T14:12:06.804-08:002010-12-24T14:12:06.804-08:00David...That sounds like an interesting Mother The...David...That sounds like an interesting Mother Theresa story. If Anonymous (about 10 posts up) is right then the human sin that prevents anyone to go to heaven would be a refusal to give up an egocentric notion of the discontinuitios self and therefore not want to re-connect/merge with the creator. So when she got to hell she would find only other purely disconnected souls with no desire to connect with God, the force, mother nature or others. She could not interact with them and she would find that she commited suicide for nothing. That would be hell.nobody111https://www.blogger.com/profile/13572089264418582034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-43160450970859661272010-12-24T13:32:16.293-08:002010-12-24T13:32:16.293-08:00There you go again, touching on Mormonism. :-)There you go again, touching on Mormonism. :-)Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07541997928359883625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-4204150604341354532010-12-24T11:47:24.251-08:002010-12-24T11:47:24.251-08:00STory I'd love to write someday. A saintly Mot...STory I'd love to write someday. A saintly Mother Teresa type who is told she is destined for heaven realizes how selfish it all boils down-to...<br /><br />...and deliberately commits the mortal sin of suicide in order to go to hell and minister to the souls there.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-70180740878021554212010-12-24T11:06:04.197-08:002010-12-24T11:06:04.197-08:00rewinn...Are you saying that Bishop means that the...rewinn...Are you saying that Bishop means that the reason Christians don't believe in "the force" or universal personhood without divine favor was an accidental issue of needing to compete with other religions for control?nobody111https://www.blogger.com/profile/13572089264418582034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-75356740985742127192010-12-24T09:12:57.793-08:002010-12-24T09:12:57.793-08:00Anyone remember James Blish's A Case of Consci...Anyone remember James Blish's <i>A Case of Conscience</i>? It tackled a number of those questions, such as whether an alien race might have avoided the Fall, or need to be 'saved', etc. and how representatives of our various faiths might interact with them. Now I have to dig my copy out of storage, just to be properly fortified for this discussion! I can remember off the top of my head a number of sci-fibooks and stories taking a look at religion and how it might apply as we proceed out into the universe.<br /><br />TheMadLibrarian<br /><br />reefrofu: the icky foam that sometimes appears in a spontaneous generation experimentTheMadLibrariannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-69682388568139449082010-12-24T05:44:54.181-08:002010-12-24T05:44:54.181-08:00Interestingly enough, a number of science fiction ...Interestingly enough, a number of science fiction stories allow for Christianity and religion to survive First Contact. And then there are some that destroy it, such as <i>Childhood's End</i>, which was a rather nihilistic look at the destruction of mankind's independence and uniqueness as a species, when you get down to it. Personally, I prefer the stories in settings such as <i>Mass Effect</i> in which religion survives... but remains a quiet personal aspect of someone's life. (One interesting aspect of ME was that you learned of one character's being religious through dialogue with her and then the game allows you a multitude of responses concerning your own religious beliefs.)<br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-78694936716915239962010-12-24T04:37:01.991-08:002010-12-24T04:37:01.991-08:00Could Christianity and other religions adapt after...Could Christianity and other religions adapt after first contact? If one assumes that religions are as most present themselves, revelations of unchanging truth, then the question can seem alarming, placing in jeopardy one of the core institutions of human societies since the beginning of our knowledge of such. Yet religions are not often as presented.<br /><br />Tonight and tomorrow my mostly atheist family will be celebrating Christmas, or Christ's Mass, for you non-Catholic non-Mass-Celebrating Protestant heathens out there. Heathen is the point though, isn't it? After all, the Italian branch of my ancestors has been giving gifts at Christmas for 3000 years, which is interesting given that Jesus supposedly lived about 2000 years ago. The holiday, then called the Saturnalia, is older than Jesus, Christ's Mass, or the gaudy Protestant Christmas.<br /><br />Religions evolve.Abilardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12849545632114544654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-81779271509697334262010-12-23T23:07:20.814-08:002010-12-23T23:07:20.814-08:00Perhaps the (ostensibly) fictional Gerard would fi...Perhaps the (ostensibly) fictional Gerard would find comfort in Bishop Spong's "<a href="http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/john_shelby_spong/2008/03/jesus_for_the_nonreligious.html" rel="nofollow">Jesus for the Non-Religious</a>", an explication of an Original Intent Christianity that simply rejects the supernatural.<br /><br />The Bishop explains it better than me, but basically, supernaturalist accretions helped Christianity outcompete rival faiths, at the cost of making personal, supernatural profittaking ("salvation") more important than the core value of what we might today call a universality of personhood irrespective of divine favor. The restoration of the latter to the core of Christianity would resolve a number of issues with aliens.<br /><br />Of course, most Christian organizations (certainly my own Roman Catholic Church) would react with horror at Spong's notions (for reasons that may not be immediately obvious to the non-churched; for example, the modern [post-Jesus] emphasis on Adam's Fall derives from the need of the priestly class to justify its existence by means of urging the necessity of a <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10006a.htm" rel="nofollow">sacrifice which requires a priestly class to execute</a>. <br /><br />Perhaps First Contact will give rise to a new Martin Luther?)rewinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14008105385364113371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-49944240799426400132010-12-23T22:08:00.035-08:002010-12-23T22:08:00.035-08:00Chimeradave.... go ahead and have the group send m...Chimeradave.... go ahead and have the group send me a couple of questions at:<br />davidbrin@sbcglobal.net<br /><br />Have fun!David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-10456928601312615712010-12-23T19:50:53.000-08:002010-12-23T19:50:53.000-08:00"Earth" is our Modern Science Fiction re..."Earth" is our Modern Science Fiction read for January at the Classic Science Fiction Message Board.<br /><br />http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ClassicScienceFiction/<br /><br />Mr. Brin, it would really be amazing if you stopped by or maybe answered a couple of our questions as they came up?Chimeradavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14373236451090168388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-71930224851977052782010-12-23T18:32:50.845-08:002010-12-23T18:32:50.845-08:00I think of the sin of Eve to be the birth of the E...I think of the sin of Eve to be the birth of the Ego and self contemplation as a discontinuous being...You see, in order to even contemplate the question of the serpent, she would have to think of herself as a separate discontinuous being from God. If God kept a secret about good and evil from her He must be separate from her. This self exile from nature is the corruption. It is the great chasm of death. Before the ego, they walked hand in hand with God in the garden. After they wore fig leaves to protect the Ego. Not due to vanity but having to do with self preservation of the self and obscenity of the taboo associated with reproduction as it relates to a bond of continuity with a mate. We all seek continuity without dieing. Reproduction and violence are shadows of continuity interpreted by the Ego. We all have a longing for God or we feel a need for continuity while maintaining a sense of self preservation and the Ego.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-42016291300125461352010-12-23T15:01:42.179-08:002010-12-23T15:01:42.179-08:00Okay trying again
Starship Sofa is a site dedicat...Okay trying again<br /><br />Starship Sofa is a site dedicated to podcasting readings of great stories.<br />Here are links to a few of my own stories that anyone can listen-to. (They helped Starship Sofa win a Hugo Award!)<br /><br />Crystal Spheres: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/<br />then<br />media.libsyn.com/media/starshipsofa/<br />then<br />David_Brin_-_Spheres.mp3<br /><br />Temptation Pt1: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/<br />then<br />media.libsyn.com/media/starshipsofa/<br />then<br />StarShipSofa_Aural_Delights_No_57_Geoff_Ryman_David_Brin_Special.mp3<br /><br />Temptation Pt2: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/<br />then<br />media.libsyn.com/media/starshipsofa/<br />then<br />StarShipSofa_Aural_Delights_No_58_Ian_Watson.mp3<br /><br />Temptation Pt3: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/media.libsyn.com/media/starshipsofa/StarShipSofa_Aural_Delights_No_59_Gregory_Frost.mp3<br /><br />Toujours Voir: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/media.libsyn.com/media/starshipsofa/Jeff_Vandermeer_Secret_Life.mp3<br /><br /><br /><br />You can find other podcasts of mine at: http://www.davidbrin.com/downloads.htm<br />and<br />http://www.poddisc.com/products/escape-pod-collection-5<br /><br />And some stories to download for reading at:<br />http://www.davidbrin.com/shortstories.htmDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-38422597205224524132010-12-23T15:00:26.362-08:002010-12-23T15:00:26.362-08:00Starship Sofa is a site dedicated to podcasting re...Starship Sofa is a site dedicated to podcasting readings of great stories.<br />Here are links to a few of my own stories that anyone can listen-to. (They helped Starship Sofa win a Hugo Award!)<br /><br />Crystal Spheres: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/media.libsyn.com/media/starshipsofa/David_Brin_-_Spheres.mp3<br /><br />Temptation Pt1: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/media.libsyn.com/media/starshipsofa/StarShipSofa_Aural_Delights_No_57_Geoff_Ryman_David_Brin_Special.mp3<br /><br />Temptation Pt2: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/media.libsyn.com/media/starshipsofa/StarShipSofa_Aural_Delights_No_58_Ian_Watson.mp3<br /><br />Temptation Pt3: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/media.libsyn.com/media/starshipsofa/StarShipSofa_Aural_Delights_No_59_Gregory_Frost.mp3<br /><br />Toujours Voir: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/media.libsyn.com/media/starshipsofa/Jeff_Vandermeer_Secret_Life.mp3<br /><br /><br /><br />You can find other podcasts of mine at: http://www.davidbrin.com/downloads.htm<br />and<br />http://www.poddisc.com/products/escape-pod-collection-5<br /><br />And some stories to download for reading at:<br />http://www.davidbrin.com/shortstories.htmDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-51289384238130337092010-12-23T14:23:51.800-08:002010-12-23T14:23:51.800-08:00That is just fricking awesome. I say this kind of ...That is just fricking awesome. I say this kind of thing needs to be done in all schools. Perhaps not always a peer-reviewed journal publication, but the same kind of project with serious scientific study...<br /><br /><br />Hmmm... Imagine if we could get children, with light supervision, to do many of the tiny-steps projects that are so fundamental to science... Fostering an understanding of and interest in science at a young age, while also vastly increasing the work force available to scientists, at least for some tasks...Ilithi Dragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10300247936272572280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-25746208492080336152010-12-23T13:57:53.922-08:002010-12-23T13:57:53.922-08:00Here's something that will undoubtedly tickle ...Here's something that will undoubtedly tickle Dr. Brin's fancy: <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20101222/sc_yblog_thelookout/study-by-8-year-olds-published-in-prestigious-science-journal" rel="nofollow">a peer reviewed article published in a prestigious scientific journal... that was written by eight-year-olds</a> (who were working under the light supervision of an adult neurosurgeon). The article published was about training bees utilizing colors that helped determine color spectrums with bee vision ranges. Personally? Considering all the fears about the loss of scientific interest in children and the like? Perhaps we should start looking into what the teachers of these children did, and work to start replicating it with our own youth. Because teaching children to love science at a young age... and to do research... that is damn impressive. As is a bunch of kids getting published in a peer-reviewed journal. ^^<br /><br />Rob H.Acacia H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07678539067303911329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-12566873845901931092010-12-23T03:29:26.511-08:002010-12-23T03:29:26.511-08:00On the openning question, yes, but only through co...On the openning question, yes, but only through compartmentalization. Humility helps also, remembering that theologians are human and fail to understand perfectly.Tim H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-79985629235147347172010-12-23T00:43:04.393-08:002010-12-23T00:43:04.393-08:00Just want to pop in this unrelated science story: ...Just want to pop in this unrelated science story: a new design for solar cells can extract energy from EM radiation at IR frequencies as well as in the visual spectrum, opening up the prospect of solar cells that could operate all night (at reduced output).<br /><br />http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20827915.000-is-night-falling-on-classic-solar-panels.htmlIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739671401151990700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-27162420817915867772010-12-22T14:14:58.293-08:002010-12-22T14:14:58.293-08:00Arrgh, of course I meant "cosmic religious fe...Arrgh, of course I meant "cosmic religious feeling" :)Sean Strangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04622195596387968961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-5294841042585175292010-12-22T14:12:06.505-08:002010-12-22T14:12:06.505-08:00I enjoyed the excerpt from Existence, it sounds pr...I enjoyed the excerpt from Existence, it sounds promising. I’ve often thought that the project of exploring space is essentially religious in nature, in that it requires us to build things with no immediate payoff for the sake of our highest ideals. Apollo, the Space Telescope, etc. are basically the pyramids and cathedrals of scientific civilization. But it’s interesting to think that it might be the religious missionaries and evangelists who drive space exploration; that’s an angle I haven’t seen explored in SF very often. Imagine the religious response to the discovery of extraterrestrial life; they’d probably be the group most eager to go out and let the ET’s in on the “good news”. Given that secular scientists don’t seem to be very good at inspiring the masses of humanity with a “comic-religious feeling” (as Einstein called it), we might have to settle for traditional religious feeling if we want to motivate people to ever get off this rock.Sean Strangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04622195596387968961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62364036666589207492010-12-22T14:10:06.769-08:002010-12-22T14:10:06.769-08:00On the topic of gerrymandering, see
http://www.sal...On the topic of gerrymandering, see<br />http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/12/22/obama_redistricting_vra/index.html<br /><br />"There is no legal area with greater partisan impact than congressional redistricting. Given the stakes, it's really just a question of how far Republicans will extend themselves for partisan gain in the forthcoming redrawing. Because of Republican control of the Justice Department in all of the prior reapportionment years dating back to Nixon, the DOJ hasn't taken an active role in challenging redistricting plans since the early 1960s, when John F. Kennedy was in the White House. Would Obama have the stomach to follow JFK's example? It’s a good question we may get an answer to next year."<br /><br />See my older essay:<br />http://www.davidbrin.com/gerrymandering1.htm<br /><br />Now that California voters have ended their own gerrymandering, period, there is a moral high ground from which Obama could wage such an assault.<br /><br />===<br /><br />Yes Matt the chinese reclamation diver is also in EXISTENCE...<br /><br />Graeme, sorry, but it was the Catholics who inflicted the Book of Revelations on us all, plus the idea of Original Sin that is passed on across the generations, even unto innocent babies. Plus the direct association of that sin with sexuality.<br /><br />In practice, the modern Catholic church has downplayed several of these doctrines, compare to some protestant fundamentalist groups. Certainly the Pope seems much less eager to rail about imminent end times than - say - Sarah Palin's pastor in Wassila. But these are still doctrines, nevertheless.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.com