tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post1933951997675776178..comments2024-03-18T21:52:45.757-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: Demonization and the deliberate destruction of U.S. politicsDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-69891833984532032002014-11-06T14:24:34.349-08:002014-11-06T14:24:34.349-08:00An entertaining exchange. But you're basicall...An entertaining exchange. But you're basically shadow boxing. Doing ballet for the blind.<br /><br />Putting up logical arguments is a completely useless endeavor. Red States don't vote by logic. They go with their feelings. Mostly they feel frustrated, they yearn for simpler times and black and white. They want very much to believe that answers are simple. And they don't connect poor results with flawed ideology. You might as well be arguing in Klingon for all the effect it has on their opinions.<br /><br />And they'll get the government they deserve. The ship will sink in interesting ways, and they will never truly understand why.<br /><br />Not that I think Democratic stewardship is brilliant. Hardly the case. They've certainly earned much of the scorn heaped upon them. <br /><br />But in a country where people largely hate their government, is it a surprise they're going to elect people who also hate their government?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-19422454514256577402014-11-03T10:51:43.018-08:002014-11-03T10:51:43.018-08:00onwardonwardDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-24722966388861470442014-11-03T10:28:11.814-08:002014-11-03T10:28:11.814-08:00Re CITOKATE – Criticism is the only known antidote...Re CITOKATE – Criticism is the only known antidote to error<br /><br />Indeed, course-correcting feedback responses are required in all dynamic systems. It is not possible to anticipate every future challenge to complex structures. This is why we have error handlers in software and immune systems in our bodies. IMHO it was the lack of the concept of “Loyal Opposition” that knackered the Soviet System. <br /><br />It was this institutional AIDS that left it vulnerable to normal wear-and-tear and eventually brought it down, not any clever planning by specific opponents.Susan Watsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11833534213203846430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-34799337026650217642014-11-03T08:53:58.521-08:002014-11-03T08:53:58.521-08:00Um, no. I was referring to the decision by Bush I...Um, no. I was referring to the decision by Bush I to not occupy Iraq during the first Gulf war.<br /><br />To be honest I had never heard of Mr. Herskowitz before this moment. I do not have a frame of reference to judge his veracity.<br /><br />TacitusTacitushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17007086196578740689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-40534600134459514772014-11-03T08:42:05.768-08:002014-11-03T08:42:05.768-08:00@Tacitus. Read the quote again. Do you consider co...@Tacitus. Read the quote again. Do you consider conquering Iraq in order to provide the political capital to destroy Social Security an example of "best of intentions"?daddyoyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01694802874831650381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-15758773600066780062014-11-03T07:29:39.341-08:002014-11-03T07:29:39.341-08:00'In a healthy system, the news media is the &q...'In a healthy system, the news media is the "rating agency" for informing the populace about what they are voting for '<br /><br />And in the current system, there's far more coverage of meta-politics than politics. I never have to look far to find coverage of the latest polling, or who is playing calvinball politics by getting the rules changed. What's a lot harder to find is any decent coverage of where the candidates stand on any issue.<br /><br />I pity the poor, scared politicians, afraid to make any definitive statement at all for fear someone will jump on them. On the other hand, I really don't like electing cowards, either.raitonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-54623159426379887002014-11-03T07:08:56.497-08:002014-11-03T07:08:56.497-08:00History does have other examples of wartime decisi...History does have other examples of wartime decisions made with the best of intentions and the worst of outcomes.<br /><br />You can make your own list. It will probably include both leaders you respect and those you despise.<br /><br />Commander in Chief is the biggest burden to be carried.<br /><br />TacitusTacitushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17007086196578740689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-76558929641633659572014-11-02T23:54:07.795-08:002014-11-02T23:54:07.795-08:00David, I wanted to address the point you have made...David, I wanted to address the point you have made in this blog and others that it seems as if that the Republican catastrophic policies have been deliberate and not accidental. Consider this quote from George W. Bush as recounted by Mickey Herskowitz: ‘My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.’ He said, ‘If I have a chance to invade….if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed." It did work for him, just barely, in 2004. What did he intend to use that capital for? A few months into his second term he attempted to gut FDR's social security system with privatization "reform." Can anyone doubt at this point that Republicans in Congress have been trying to sabotage the economy by shutting down the government, defaulting on our debt, and pushing austerity which has only delayed economic recovery? Then, of course, they will blame Obama.daddyoyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01694802874831650381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-47289593965265369192014-11-02T22:33:01.739-08:002014-11-02T22:33:01.739-08:00While we're on Manchurian Theories:
Did US le...While we're on Manchurian Theories:<br /><br /><a href="http://pando.com/2014/10/16/the-war-nerd-nobody-could-have-predicted-islamic-states-retreat-from-kobane-except-me/" rel="nofollow">Did US leadership <b>want</b> Kobane to fall?</a><br /><br />Summary: The US has a hard time really supporting Kobane, because that means supporting Kurds, and we are allies with Turkey, who hate Kurds. We can't stop being allies with Turkey, because they're useful against Russia and the middle east. Plus, dead Kurds make good propaganda to show our non-Turkish allies. "see how evil IS is?"sociotardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11697154298087412934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-84331467647123154672014-11-02T21:41:26.985-08:002014-11-02T21:41:26.985-08:00We agree the Bush family obeyed their masters. Wh...We agree the Bush family obeyed their masters. Where I disagree with locum is re oughtas. <br /><br />We oughta have safeguarded Basra and the southern Shiite Arabs with a no-fly zone and aid, just like we did for the Kurds. They would be our friends now and not pals with Iran<br /><br />And we'd have saved a million lives. Locum is way too cynical.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-19970035657118262652014-11-02T20:12:24.994-08:002014-11-02T20:12:24.994-08:00As far as Bush Senior is concerned he did exactly ...As far as Bush Senior is concerned he did exactly what the master told him not to do<br /><br />Never do somebody a small injury,<br />If you are going to hurt somebody make it terminal,<br />Regards, NiccoloDuncan Cairncrossnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-76759132610430859412014-11-02T18:06:37.014-08:002014-11-02T18:06:37.014-08:00The purpose of the first US-Iraq 'action' ...<br />The purpose of the first US-Iraq 'action' was to intervene in what amounts to domestic violence (a family squabble) after the (good) Sunni royalty of Kuwait was invaded by the (bad) Sunni dictator of Iraq. <br /><br />Then, once the US chased out & properly chastised the Bad 'Sonny' for acting out-of-turn, the Good Royal Kuwaiti Sonnies ordered their US mercenaries to stand down because to stand down because (1) blood is thicker than water and (2) the Kuwait Sunnis (who fear & despise the Shite minority) wanted their bad brother to act as a buffer zone between all those other Shites & themselves.<br /><br />As any civil peace offer can tell you, only a moron intervenes in a domestic violence situation without overwhelming force, since both parities -- even the abused party that they are trying to protect -- will turn on their would be saviors in a heart beat, which means that Bush Sr did the right thing by getting the hell out of there after liberating the Kuwaitis.<br /><br />Best<br /><br />locumranchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-72440226395814842432014-11-02T15:49:55.039-08:002014-11-02T15:49:55.039-08:00I don't think the tumbrels will be needed; htt...I don't think the tumbrels will be needed; http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2012/08/17/robotic-spider-drone-assassins-coming-to-kill-us-all/<br />That or bee-sized drones and face recognition software, poisons engineered for a specific genotype,etc.Don Gisselbecknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-87554359327768924082014-11-02T14:58:46.040-08:002014-11-02T14:58:46.040-08:00Robert Reich has done a bit of creative writing.Robert Reich has <a href="http://robertreich.org/post/101613921835" rel="nofollow">done a bit of creative writing</a>.Billhttp://www.cstdbill.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-261898244816065652014-11-02T10:22:58.982-08:002014-11-02T10:22:58.982-08:00Lloyd clearly Bush Sr was ordered to leave Saddam ...Lloyd clearly Bush Sr was ordered to leave Saddam in place and not to allow the creation of a South Iraq Shiite state. The stupidity of that decision is now plain. That state would have been VERY grateful and friendly to us and the remnant Sunni Iraq would have been a rump in which Saddam would likely have been toppled by a coup. But he'd have been harmless in any even, except as a visible stop to Iranian ambitions.<br /><br />Opportunities... all lost. It is why I despise GHW Bush even more than his son.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-32389475329520181282014-11-02T07:31:44.556-08:002014-11-02T07:31:44.556-08:00"The aristo fools who demonize him and seek t..."<i>The aristo fools who demonize him and seek to restore feudalism seem too stupid to realize the alternative to a middle class America — such as FDR built — is not feudalism… but tumbrels.</i>"<br /><br />Western would-be aristocrats <b>know</b> the tumbrels are coming: they also know that it takes a long time and a lot of abuse to push non-sociopathic humans to go against their hard-wired conflict aversion and start slaughtering their inept lords: their folly is to believe that contrary their predecessors, <b>they</b> will be smart enough to liquidate their assets, transfer their wealth toward a more "stable" polities and leave their countries <b>before</b> their behavior leads to the point of non return.Laurent Weppenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-35641631117011782002014-11-02T07:20:39.876-08:002014-11-02T07:20:39.876-08:00locumranch:
you have to admit that the system is ...locumranch:<br /><i><br />you have to admit that the system is fundamentally flawed when our elected federal representatives are no longer common but rich millionaires when (in order to be) elected or they become millionaires shortly thereafter.<br /></i><br /><br />As I see it, the fundamental flaw is that the news media is now part of the scam. Money flows from wealthy donors to politicians' campaigns, which they spend on expensive advertising. As the news media benefits from that spending, it is not in their interest to alter that system.<br /><br />In a healthy system, the news media is the "rating agency" for informing the populace about what they are voting for (or against), just as financial ratings agencies are supposed to inform investors as to the true nature of their portfolio. And just as the banking collapse of 2008 was enabled by deliberate corrpution of the ratings agencies, so is democracy imperiled by the deliberate corrpution of the news media. <br /><br />FOX was the modern-day prototype of this dynamic, but now every other mainstream news outlet wants to be FOX when they grow up.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-81071813495581138872014-11-02T06:08:03.911-08:002014-11-02T06:08:03.911-08:00Re: reciprocal demonization. You should read Grego...Re: reciprocal demonization. You should read Gregory Bateson - Schizmogenesis. And then understand the power of regeneration through regression narratives in American culture. Then you will have a much clearer understanding of why this is happening and why Americans are so susceptible to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-35497095667424832772014-11-02T05:43:27.418-08:002014-11-02T05:43:27.418-08:00Why did Bush end the Iraq war prematurely in 1991?...Why did Bush end the Iraq war prematurely in 1991?<br /><br />Multiple reasons I think. There was the reaction to the massive number of Iraqis killed in the convoy fleeing Kuwait. There was the fear on the part of some Arab states that the destruction of Iraqi military power would allow Iran to endanger other Arab countries. And there was the expectation that a humiliating defeat would lead to Husseins's removal in a coup.<br />I suspect that Bush was too influenced by his Arab allies. The mistake in expecting a coup came, I think, from seeing Hussein's dictatorship as similar in its basis to a European or Latin American military dictatorship. I don't think it was.Lloyd Flackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00832519369660328832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-38823551675510762482014-11-02T01:15:17.260-08:002014-11-02T01:15:17.260-08:00Off-topic:
Venus may form frost made out of heavy...Off-topic:<br /><br />Venus may form frost made out of heavy metals on highlands.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.geosociety.org/news/pr/2014/14-75.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.geosociety.org/news/pr/2014/14-75.htm</a><br /><br />Radar from the Messenger probe has suggested permanently dark craters on Mercury contain water-ice. (Which are handy for that girl who said "When hell freezes over...") Recently the mission scientists have figured out how to see in the dark...<br /><br /><a href="http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sciencePhotos/image.php?image_id=1484" rel="nofollow">http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sciencePhotos/image.php?image_id=1484</a><br /><br />(Personally, I just see a crater. But apparently the pattern fits what they expected from dust-covered ice...)<br /><br />And Saturn's "Death Star" moon, Mimas, has been added to the growing list of moons and bodies with sub-surface oceans probably.<br /><br /><a href="http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/newsreleases/newsrelease20141016/" rel="nofollow">http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/newsreleases/newsrelease20141016/</a>Paul451https://www.blogger.com/profile/12119086761190994938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-78035551158599998002014-11-01T21:20:21.445-07:002014-11-01T21:20:21.445-07:00The US system operates in accordance with the '...<br />The US system operates in accordance with the 'Golden Rule', by which I mean that he who has the gold makes the rules, which is why Thomas Jefferson advocated the deliberate rejection of said rules if & when they are found to perpetuate injustice.<br /><br />Many have lost patience with the current state of US bipartisan blame-casting, especially when members of both parties are self-serving profiteers who share equal guilt & equal responsibility for the systemic perpetuation of economic & social injustice. <br /><br />And, no matter how optimistic you choose to be about 'changing the system from within', or how 'empowered' you feel when voting for the lesser of a two-party evil, you have to admit that the system is fundamentally flawed when our elected federal representatives are no longer common but rich millionaires when (in order to be) elected or they become millionaires shortly thereafter.<br /><br />Samuel Clemens once quipped that 'There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress', and what was once true a century ago is only more so now that the financial stakes have gone from 19th Century 'thousands' to 21st Century 'trillions'.<br /><br />Truly, it is a sad state of affairs when economic, social & scientific progress is no longer the purview of the common man but said to depend on largesse of a few 'Good Billionaires' who have little or no incentive to be 'good' beyond their own conscience.<br /><br />That is what I call 'optimism': To leave the fate of a fading democratic superpower in the hands of 'Jiminy Cricket'.<br /><br /><br /><br />Bestlocumranchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-55446081178173628212014-11-01T21:00:33.054-07:002014-11-01T21:00:33.054-07:00Fact, is, FDR effectively SAVED capitalism and the...<i>Fact, is, FDR effectively SAVED capitalism and the wealthy, in America. The aristo fools who demonize him and seek to restore feudalism seem too stupid to realize the alternative to a middle class America — such as FDR built — is not feudalism… but tumbrels. They should be the ones seeking a new Roosevelt.</i><br /><br />The presumption is that the model is the French Revolution. That is not what was happening during the Great Depression. What was feared was not that the capitalist model had concentrated the wealth <i>per se</i>, but rather that capitalism had failed and that the recent rise of communism in Russia as an alternative political/economic system would be more attractive. Had this happened, the US and European model would have been overturned. Since there was not yet any evidence of the failure of communism as an economic system, this could have been a possible outcome. Today the failure of communism to manage a large national economy is well established, so this is no longer considered a viable alternative model. That communism was considered a viable model at the time accounts for the virulent anti-communism of mid 20th c. America with associated disastrous wars to contain this threat, as well as the Cold War. Anti-communist expressions today are merely knee jerk, as there is only a tiny minority belief in its viability today.<br /><br />Whether we "need and FDR today" depends on what features of the man and his administration you focus on. Despite the weak state of western economies, we do not have a sense that capitalism has failed, but rather that the fruits of that system have been concentrated as they were in the gilded age. Even under the most generous assessments of unemployment, the US is nowhere near the rates experienced in the Great Depression, nor at rates still experienced in southern European countries, like Spain. Relatively modest redistributive progressive taxation and public works programs would be sufficient to restore the US economy. Reverting to 1970's more labor friendly laws would also make this country a lot more humane. While I'm asking for a pony, universal healthcare should be added to the list.Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-90305524493108008042014-11-01T19:56:48.841-07:002014-11-01T19:56:48.841-07:00Tacitus I did my best at ground rules. But even i...Tacitus I did my best at ground rules. But even if they remain a bit ambiguous, all that does is put a fuzzy boundary around the way "name one!" proves GOP incompetence by "failure of counter example."<br /><br />If there were an example that CLEARLY was unambiguous and attributable and major, you'd have leaped on it by now. And competent governors would have had something to point at and crow. <br /><br />Some effects of GOP rule might have been positive, but ambiguous or hard to attribute. Especially in some STATE govts. I am willing to probe those outlines. Certainly Schwarznegger could lay claim to a few of those, here in CA. Maybe Christ and even Jeb in FLA. <br /><br /> But zooming in on that misses the point. Somehow, somewhen, you sane conservatives will get fed up and rebel. We've been praying for that, ever since way before the turn of the century.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-3130143059900062142014-11-01T19:24:42.630-07:002014-11-01T19:24:42.630-07:00LarryHart is correct.
The thank you was sincere. ...LarryHart is correct.<br /><br />The thank you was sincere. Our political disagreements aside I do appreciate our (?) relationship.<br /><br />Oh, and I don't do emoticons.<br /><br />The prior post you cite contained some excellent discussion on whether outcomes were influenced by the presidency, or by same/mixed/opposite party in control of Congress. As we look towards fixing things in this country this is an important question.<br /><br />And I did not make demands, merely requests for ground rules if you wanted me to have another swing at your challenge.<br /><br />TacitusTacitushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17007086196578740689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-30165043000992030972014-11-01T18:43:18.022-07:002014-11-01T18:43:18.022-07:00Dr Brin:
Tacitus... please put a smiley face afte...Dr Brin:<br /><i><br />Tacitus... please put a smiley face after your "Thank You." because you know darn well the "stubborn" part was followed by words of genuine respect<br /></i><br /><br />I took Tacitus to mean "Thank you. Being called 'stubborn' by you is a compliment."LarryHartnoreply@blogger.com