tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post1418831828196688304..comments2024-03-29T00:39:31.629-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: A Renaissance in Science Fiction Cinema & TelevisionDavid Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-86279773308101342082015-02-16T08:24:07.254-08:002015-02-16T08:24:07.254-08:00Renaissance? I'm skeptical.
'Round Christ...Renaissance? I'm skeptical.<br /><br />'Round Christmas time, my wife and I went to see a movie, and uncommon occurrence these days. Of the 9 trailers shown, 5 were for presumably sci-fi movies. All used the same format for the trailers, and 3 of them ended with essentially the same conceit, and definitely the same percussive cadence.<br /><br />If there's something new coming, it's not going to be on the big screen.raitonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-23066525554360999752015-02-14T07:26:28.037-08:002015-02-14T07:26:28.037-08:00Alex Tolley:
Sometimes ignorance is bliss. My his...Alex Tolley:<br /><i><br />Sometimes ignorance is bliss. My historian wife can rarely watch historical dramas as she sees so much that is wrong. She is having trouble with the BBC's "Wolf Hall" partly because of Damian Lewis' interpretation of Harry 8.<br /><br />...<br /><br />The more knowledge you have, the more constrained a movie needs to be to stay within those bounds. That will inevitably lead to plot and script issues conflicting with reality.<br /></i><br /><br />The movie has to make you want to play along...to go with willing suspension of disbelief rather than scientific critic. I'm not sure of exactly what movies have to do to win one over to that position, but clearly "not taking me for a complete idiot" is one component.<br /><br />I was such a geek-fan of the original "Star Wars" back in my teenage years that I had no problem with the fact that gravity and sound would never work the way they did in the movie. Whereas I would not have accepted the same lapses from "2001: A Space Odyssey".<br /><br />A lot of movies are filmed in my hometown, Chicago, and they usually get the local geography wrong. When Chicago is just a generic background, such as when it is really Gotham City in the Batman films, then I don't care. But when Harry and Sally drive north up Lake Shore Drive on the way to New York (a path that would require them to circumnavigate four of the Great Lakes) it takes me out of the film.LarryHartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-41242391179673852652015-02-13T13:29:33.924-08:002015-02-13T13:29:33.924-08:00And back to teh filums,
Alex,
Re: Gravity
"...And back to teh filums,<br /><br />Alex,<br /><br />Re: Gravity<br /><i>"I can see that dropping real hardware for fictional would satisfy some people"</i><br /><br />But that's the thing, what they did was fictional, unreal, impossible, anyway. A Shuttle that never existed in a program that was already ended when the film was made. Hubble, ISS and a Chinese station all within a couple of miles of each other. Totally fake.<br /><br />Whereas "rescue missions" are real (Intelsat VI) and upper-stage failures are real (Intelsat VI and the recent Phobos Grunt failure). It only takes a moment to create a scenario that meets the film's goals without it being stupid for <i>the very people</i> the movie was being most strongly marketed to.<br /><br /><i>"My historian wife can rarely watch historical dramas as she sees so much that is wrong."</i><br /><br />While I get your point, the specific thing with Interstellar and Avatar (and to a lesser degree Gravity), is that the director made a big fuss about how hard their SF was. It is like a historical drama being specifically marketed to history-buffs, with the director puffing up how many historians were involved, and how proud he is of the historical realism. And then he sticks steam engines in medieval England and when people complain, waves it away with "it's just a film".<br /><br />There was no plot reason for Interstellar to have such leaden dialogue, self-contradicting technology, idiot mistakes... There was no reason for Avatar to have so many stupid cliches and dumb scenes. It's just lazy writing.Paul451https://www.blogger.com/profile/12119086761190994938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-19556024477404448302015-02-13T13:23:32.210-08:002015-02-13T13:23:32.210-08:00Locumranch,
"especially the conference's ...Locumranch,<br /><i>"especially <b>the conference's scientific consensus</b> that "it is time to try actively to contact intelligent life on other worlds" "</i><br /><br /><i>What</i> scientific consensus? That's just a strawman you created to justify the rest of your argument. It's one guy from a privately-funded organisation.<br /><br />Why is David's position internally consistent? Simple: If you, like Shostak, believe that They are out there, all around us, alien civilisations older and wiser than us, and totally not hostile to us, then perhaps you should listen to <i>their</i> Galactic consensus, listen to the message they <i>have</i> been shouting at us over and over for at least 70 years...<br /><br />"Shhhh."<br />Paul451https://www.blogger.com/profile/12119086761190994938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-15496826689232401022015-02-13T13:20:56.694-08:002015-02-13T13:20:56.694-08:00Speaking of stupid ego-driven decisions...
Alex,
...Speaking of stupid ego-driven decisions...<br /><br />Alex,<br /><i>"It would be a long term project, and would likely end up being almost religious in nature."</i><br /><br />Not religious, IMO, just childish. Scratching your name onto the Pyramids. Bringing a laser-pointer to a theatre. A poor impulse-control demand for attention. And it's not about getting a reply. Active SETI advocates are <i>never</i> serious about long term project to watch the systems they are transmitting to. The shouting "look at me" <i>is</i> the point. <br /><br />" 'Vunce zey go up, who cares vere zey come down,<br />zat's not my department,' said Werner Von Braun."<br /><br />IMO, even Shostak is only an advocate because he's frustrated with not getting a signal. When they offered him the job, they promised him aliens. There aren't any damn aliens so far, so he's gonna do sommit 'bout it!<br /><br />[Shostak repeats the "We've been broadcasting for 70 years, they can already hear us" line... So the point of Active SETI is? The only reason to shout is if you think they can't hear us talking.]<br /><br /><i>"Sending signals out into space is almost futile given the likely distance to the nearest civs as there is almost no chance that we would get a reply even within a human lifetime. "</i><br /><br />Indeed. If ET civilisations are by chance so close as to make transmission worthwhile, there must be <i>millions</i> of such civilisations in our galaxy. If so, even if interstellar travel is too hard/impossible, the galaxy would be flooded with chatter and we'd be bathed in "Hey! Yo, new guys! Talk to us!" signals. (The reasoning is that even if the majority of ET civilisations are culturally shy/quiet/fearful, with <i>millions</i> of civilisations, there'd be enough at the very very chatty end of the bell-curve for that to dominate communication. By definition, the talkers create the culture of communication.)<br /><br />Since it's quiet, there's two possibilities: Life/intelligence/civilisation is rare enough to be functionally equivalent to non-existent, making Active SETI just stupid but harmless. <br /><br />Or ETIs are common... but are keeping quiet. In which case, we should perhaps take their advice until we know a lot more.<br /><br />And as you note, we don't have to wait forever, just a few centuries, a millennia at most, perhaps until we've detected nearby civilisations by other, passive, observations; then we can have the discussion again about contacting those civilisations directly. Is it so vital that it <i>must</i> be in our lifetimes? Are we <i>so</i> important?Paul451https://www.blogger.com/profile/12119086761190994938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-21187733836965948422015-02-13T12:58:32.307-08:002015-02-13T12:58:32.307-08:00@locum - it is hard to describe either side as hav...@locum - it is hard to describe either side as having a "scientific" opinion on the matter. I see DB's position as being precautionary. At this point, I do not see how or what reverses this stance, other than the vague 1000(?) years of observations to make a better determination.<br /><br />Within 10-20 years we should know whether life is common in the galaxy, and maybe if other civilization exist within a 100.<br /><br />If there are no other current civs, then active SETI is futile (as is much SETI looking for signals). If they are there and predatory, as David worries, I just do not see them waiting for signals before hurrying over. More likely they have probes in our own system monitoring us. If they have FTL travel, then where are they, if not, they may be on their way. <br /><br />David calls active SETI shouting "yoo hoo" into the dark. If there are predators out there, it is more likely they are close by, in a hide, and watching us with the equivalent of night vision glasses. Whether we signal or not seems rather beside the point to me, even though I understand his position.<br /><br /><br /><br /> Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-72619731222533897302015-02-13T11:59:54.365-08:002015-02-13T11:59:54.365-08:00Excellent article on the recent SETI conference me...<br />Excellent article on the recent SETI conference mentioned by Alex (above), especially the conference's scientific consensus that "it is time to try actively to contact intelligent life on other worlds", the main contrarian being our skeptical Dr. Brin who describes this overwhelming consensus as poorly conceived (anti-scientific) "arrogance" and an (elitist; anti-democratic) "railroading of the public", a position that only serves to highlight that our glorious leader lacks the internal consistency to reject other more progressively grandiose consensuses on principle.<br /><br />Even Alfred would agree that such an untenable position (this rejection of an overwhelming scientific consensus ) only confirms our host exhibits all of the delusional hallmarks of the illusory superiority, Dunning-Kruger and optimism bias previously mentioned, the only other unthinkable option being that there exists a conceptual difference between what passes for 'scientific fact' and what passes for 'scientific opinion', especially when such an non-consensual distinction is simply inconceivable !!<br /><br /><br />Bestlocumranchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-42447673590980320232015-02-13T10:32:07.819-08:002015-02-13T10:32:07.819-08:00@Paul451 Sometimes ignorance is bliss. My hist...@Paul451 Sometimes ignorance is bliss. My historian wife can rarely watch historical dramas as she sees so much that is wrong. She is having trouble with the BBC's "Wolf Hall" partly because of Damian Lewis' interpretation of Harry 8.<br /><br />I've no doubt that most westerns are inaccurate for similar reasons, apart from shooting more than 6 bullets from a 6 chambered revolver!<br /><br />The more knowledge you have, the more constrained a movie needs to be to stay within those bounds. That will inevitably lead to plot and script issues conflicting with reality.<br /><br />BTW, I like your alternative scenario to set up the movie. So in this case, I can see that dropping real hardware for fictional would satisfy some people, at the cost of others who might prefer the references to that hardware.<br /><br /><br /><br />Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-90251845934964946152015-02-13T09:51:52.614-08:002015-02-13T09:51:52.614-08:00Anonymous,
"I kind of thought that most gripe...Anonymous,<br /><i>"I kind of thought that most gripes people had about "Interstellar" is like having someone complaining you only gave them a $1,000 of Silver instead of a $1,000 of Gold."</i><br /><br />No, it's having paid for gold coins and being handed chocolate in gold-coloured foil. (And, often, even that "chocolate" is just "chocolate-flavoured".)<br /><br />Gravity wasn't as bad as Interstellar, but the WTF moments are still just laziness (or director's ego), such as using the Shuttle and the impossible Hubble/ISS orbital mechanics. The director wanted Hubble <i>and</i> a Shuttle orbiter <i>and</i> ISS, so screw reality. But it wasn't actually necessary to the story. Why not have a fictional satellite and a post-Shuttle mission similar to the Intelsat VI rescue? For example, an expensive Earth-science satellite meant for GSO ends up stuck in LEO due to damage to upper-stage from debris... ooo, foreshadowing. It's near enough to ISS a few months later to risk an improvised mission using a Soyuz capsule to ferry across 3 ISS astronauts (2 US and 1 Russian, plot-justified as guy with most EVA time (Clooney), EVA-newb but best systems-engineer (Bullock), Soyuz pilot with EVA experience (Basher Savage?)) to attach a new just-launched kick-stage...<br /><br />But no... It <i>had</i> to be Hubble, it <i>had</i> to be a Shuttle orbiter, it <i>had</i> to be ISS. Director's Ego.<br /><br />The problem is that once the director puffs up how "realistic" the film is going to be and then right at the start throws that kind of lazy-nonsense at me, he breaks my suspension of disbelief, making me more likely to pick up every other mistake. And for nothing. Completely avoidable.<br /><br />But Interstellar was vastly worse, because it <i>kept</i> pushing lazy-stupid things. Every time I could say, "Okay Paul just watch the film", bam! Another one. Bad dialogue, dumb characters, idiotic scenes, cliches upon cliches... Ditto Avatar. It never stopped being stupid for long enough for me to fall back into a "watcher's trance".Paul451https://www.blogger.com/profile/12119086761190994938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-41067349462781401502015-02-13T09:17:35.401-08:002015-02-13T09:17:35.401-08:00BBC piece on the event Dr. Brin spoke at in San Jo...BBC piece on the event Dr. Brin spoke at in San Jose.<br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-31442952<br /><br />Given Seth Shostak's viewpoint, I wonder if he is seeing the writing on the wall for passive SETI and is looking for a new project in active SETI to sustain funding and interest. <br /><br />If there are alien civs out there that are apparently silent perhaps because they have some better way to communicate, the obvious solution is to park a probe in solar systems to detect technological civs and then report back, even communicate with those emerging civs. (Yes, this is a version of the 2001 monolith idea).<br /><br />Sending signals out into space is almost futile given the likely distance to the nearest civs as there is almost no chance that we would get a reply even within a human lifetime. It would be a long term project, and would likely end up being almost religious in nature.<br /><br /><br /><br />Alex Tolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01556422553154817988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-12004944541042285262015-02-13T03:14:04.408-08:002015-02-13T03:14:04.408-08:00This is SF we're talking about here. When we g...This is SF we're talking about here. When we grumble about suspending belief on something, it's not that we can't do it so much as we can't see why we *have* do it.<br /><br />I can't comment on Coherence, but the Long Earth series are based on a ridiculous fancy: cheap and easy inter-dimensional travel via potato. However, once Pratchett and Baxter persuade you to swallow that loopy proposition, they are quite meticulous about describing the possible consequences.Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-14948427422695518202015-02-12T21:34:21.424-08:002015-02-12T21:34:21.424-08:00If you're willing to suspend disbelief for the...If you're willing to suspend disbelief for the initial concept, then check out the low budget movie <i>Coherence</i>. It's high-concept along the lines of <i>Primer</i>.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11670618065966301500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-51581253927404062052015-02-12T21:14:53.218-08:002015-02-12T21:14:53.218-08:00Well, Bullock's character did nearly die of wa...Well, Bullock's character did nearly die of water, cold or otherwise.<br /><br />My niggle was the spectacle of *all* humanity's space hardware getting destroyed or de-orbited.<br />(Scratch that dream, humanity)Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-41324927928833803552015-02-12T19:05:15.246-08:002015-02-12T19:05:15.246-08:00The thing that bugged me about Gravity was the orb...The thing that bugged me about Gravity was the orbit inclinations were wrong. Once I was forced to suspend my skepticism over that, the rest of the story went smooth enough.<br /><br />Try bailing out from the ISS orbit and there is a decent chance you get dumped in some really, really cold water. I only managed to half suspend my analytical side and half expected Bullock's character to pop the hatch and the end... and die of hypothermia real quick. 8)Alfred Differhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170159981105973192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-49109974123262343412015-02-12T11:27:09.539-08:002015-02-12T11:27:09.539-08:00I liked Big Hero 6, but I kind of laughed at Bayma...I liked Big Hero 6, but I kind of laughed at Baymax's faulty medical ethics programming. Sure, Tadochi remembered to program in the whole "do no harm" line, but neglected all the elements of privacy. No consent given and he performs diagnostics on the villain, and then gives the information to someone without a medical need to know.<br /><br />Forgivable, I suppose, for a robot still in beta testing.sociotardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11697154298087412934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-13630679389004293782015-02-12T08:59:50.745-08:002015-02-12T08:59:50.745-08:00I kind of thought that most gripes people had abou...I kind of thought that most gripes people had about "Interstellar" is like having someone complaining you only gave them a $1,000 of Silver instead of a $1,000 of Gold. <br /><br />It is my suspicion that Gravity must be in the same boat. <br /><br />I agree that people should have a thicker skin when it comes to minor imperfections in what is mostly the thing we want. More numerous and positive science fiction. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-11678412357422051922015-02-12T04:59:18.743-08:002015-02-12T04:59:18.743-08:00The part about Ascension that breaks my immersion ...The part about Ascension that breaks my immersion is the gravity stuff: a crew composed of engineers and physics good enough to invent a lot of new technologies should be able to notice that they're all standing in an exactly 1 G field instead of relying on rotational pseudo gravity.<br />And if they said that the 1 G field came from continuous acceleration, if my relativistic calculations are right, after subjective 50 years 1 G acceleration they should have travelled over 100.000.000.000 LY.<br />They could at least have patched this with some throwaway comment about a supposed "gravity generator" (that would have been fictional even inside the narrative) or something.fuzzyillogicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-62361648888348050302015-02-12T01:11:44.587-08:002015-02-12T01:11:44.587-08:00I don't really think of Avatar as just a "...I don't really think of Avatar as just a "Dance with smurphy cats" movie. <br />If we sum up the movie as so:<br />-Species A comes to species B's world to extract resources it somehow can't get anywhere else.<br />-Species A is space faring and therefore higher tech than B.<br />-In order to minimize resistance from the natives, they send infiltrators looking like the locals to study them and perhaps make agreements with the leadership.<br />-The infiltrator forgets about their duties and goes native. Often, romance with one of the natives happens.<br />-Reality comes back to bite the infiltrator when the fleet comes in and begins all out attack.<br />-Explosions ensue.<br />-Eventually, the lower tech natives defeat the invaders through ingenious tactics and with the help of the defecting infiltrator.<br /><br />That's basically the plot to half the alien invasion movies that have been released. The only difference is the roles of humans and aliens have been reversed. Looking at it this way, it's a rather interesting reinterpretation of an old classic plot. Think of it like that and the movie watches quite differently.<br />Midboss57noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-74296216131447920472015-02-11T23:50:17.006-08:002015-02-11T23:50:17.006-08:00Vastman, I heard an account (apparently from Camer...Vastman, I heard an account (apparently from Cameron himself) where he showed Avatar to a community of Amazonians and asked for feedback. One of the elder women told him there was too much fighting. 'In real life', she said, 'we use law!'.<br /><br />He did seem to take it on board, so we'll see,Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-2870509958584866832015-02-11T21:06:00.858-08:002015-02-11T21:06:00.858-08:00I'm gonna be quasi out of the loop for about a...I'm gonna be quasi out of the loop for about a week.<br /><br />But nice to see our strawman artist is keeping up his craft. Even tho I am waaaaaaaaaay over here. ;-)David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-35731593669898094362015-02-11T19:54:42.197-08:002015-02-11T19:54:42.197-08:00Laurent... are you for real?
Wow!
FYI, James has...Laurent... are you for real?<br />Wow! <br />FYI, James has spent a lot of time with rainforest tribal peoples, being exploited and watching their "earth" being destroyed by fossil fuels/dams/development... Avatar is his attempt to get us to connect with the living planet and to see what "other" are doing to her.<br /><br />He did this in a way different manner than Brin did in Existance and Earth (both of which I absolutely love and have listened to several times.<br /><br />Cameron extrapolated a contrast...He eloquently extrapolated how the mycelium webs of life in the rainforest translocate nutrients from one region to another... and brought it to life, hoping to touch our spirit.<br /><br />He also addressed the connection with all living things...The navi's ability to speak with and connect with other creatures... I hope we can evolve to this level. The more we learn about the animal/insect/living system, the more we are realizing there is communication way beyond the communication between redneck humans. James was extrapolating this connection and I think he did this beautifully.<br /><br />The lesson, if I may be so bold... is that if we "knew" what we were doing, we wouldn't do it...<br /><br />Obviously, he didn't succeed in communicating with you!vastmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10627981521392925704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-14785556795520407312015-02-11T19:32:15.157-08:002015-02-11T19:32:15.157-08:00"why the Na'vi have four limbs, not six? ..."<i>why the Na'vi have four limbs, not six? Why *do* they seem so like an idyllic tribe of Indians?</i>"<br /><br />My personal take is that the Na'Vi (hey! Listen!) are basically Eloi: their ancestors terraformed Pandora, built a giant biological computer which acts as its biosphere caretaker, and their artificial Eden was so successful that they pretty much reverted back to hunter gatherers.Laurent Weppenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-65323612182211404122015-02-11T19:25:09.788-08:002015-02-11T19:25:09.788-08:00Whatcha got against Alien III? I actually love tha...Whatcha got against Alien III? I actually love that movie. The heroes are a bunch of rejects, "despised & rejected of men," with no real tech, brilliance, or ubermensch characteristics (except maybe Ripley), who nevertheless develop the character and courage to team up, stand up, and fight back in what looks like a hopeless cause. And Ripley's self sacrifice at the end, practically christ-like. Love that film.Orvalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08555662894379930689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-73235277745812393152015-02-11T17:41:04.703-08:002015-02-11T17:41:04.703-08:00Now if only someone could make a decent mini serie...Now if only someone could make a decent mini series of "Dune" - give it the full "Game of Thrones" treatment. A dozen episodes each for Dune, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune.<br /><br />P.S. Peter Dinklage could play Bijaz.DPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07087941506162882852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-30417607232992017562015-02-11T17:22:01.281-08:002015-02-11T17:22:01.281-08:00I'm with Paul451. There are only so many menta...I'm with Paul451. There are only so many mental gymnastics I can do to hold on to a disintegrating plot. I'd sooner watch a different sort of movie entirely, and read my SF, if the idiot movie makers are intent on retaining mindless error. I mean Gravity? Really? Would you watch a non-SF drama that had all the following: a three hour motorboat trip from Seattle to New York, a small revolver that fires 35 shots, a bank vault whose door can be consumed by fire and turned to ashes in 30 seconds by 5 gallons of gasoline, a 12 foot snake that can digest a full grown lion in one hour? Some of these crappy SF movies remind me of all that.Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.com