tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post113813566245574263..comments2024-03-28T06:22:23.961-07:00Comments on CONTRARY BRIN: The Ritual of the Streetcorner -- Brin's exercise in humility.David Brinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138388755694538772006-01-27T11:05:00.000-08:002006-01-27T11:05:00.000-08:00Rik: in fact, Diamond's premise is not that we are...Rik: in fact, Diamond's premise is not that we are the same as Easter Island, for precisely the things you talk about: we have a much deeper view of history, we can look at examples of where civilizations have failed and ones that haven't.<BR/><BR/>Whether or not we agree with his solutions is besides the point. He wants us to recognize there are problems with how our civilization operates and grapple with it -- otherwise, we may very well end up like Easter Island.<BR/><BR/>He actually (I've seen him speak a couple of times) is an optimist.Adrian Cotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10187651423761530436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138258412267562242006-01-25T22:53:00.000-08:002006-01-25T22:53:00.000-08:00If you challenge me to be contrary, be assured you...If you challenge me to be contrary, be assured your chances are good.<BR/><BR/>I was contrary to Diamond in my review. He DOES need to do a 360... several times.<BR/><BR/>And yet, he is more valuable than any of us here. He reaches millions, and gets them to think historically, to see the vast panoply of human errors and to apply CITOKATE upon what we may stupidly do to the Earth.David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138230512139906142006-01-25T15:08:00.000-08:002006-01-25T15:08:00.000-08:00Re Jared Diamond's book COLLAPSE, see my review at...Re Jared Diamond's book COLLAPSE, see my review at http://www.davidbrin.com/ <BR/><BR/>I highly recommend it... while suggesting it is biased and incomplete. Diamond is supplying plenty of needed CITOKATE. What he does not supply is any confidence in modern humanity's new suite of problem-solving tools. He seems to prescriberetro solutions, like Ticopia and Tokugawa Japan... <BR/><BR/>...over my dead body.<BR/><BR/>He is very valuable... and far too curmugeonly to understand that moving forward is the only answer. Adolescants solve the problems of adolescence by becoming adults. They do not do so by picking a rigid version of childhood to return to.<BR/><BR/>Indeed, his book should have been titled GROW UP!David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138226494948891152006-01-25T14:01:00.000-08:002006-01-25T14:01:00.000-08:00I think Dr. Brin has reached what some would call ...I think Dr. Brin has reached what some would call enlightenment- a state we should all aim for. Though I have been both a skeptic and a cynic at times in my life, I am really closer to a realist. I try to do what Dr. Brin does- "the 360" - from time to time. I find it keeps me centered when the world seems too crazy to believe. Yes, there was Sept. 11th; yes, there is the Iraq "war"; yes, there was Katrina. But, by golly, we are out of the Dark Ages, and there is a lot to be said for that! The mere fact that the world is still not perfect proves that we have room for improvement, for continued "evolution," let's say. So who's going to lead the charge?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138225935660668312006-01-25T13:52:00.000-08:002006-01-25T13:52:00.000-08:00>CrichtonSecond the recommendation of http://www.r...>Crichton<BR/><BR/>Second the recommendation of <BR/><BR/>http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=74<BR/><BR/>(Note, that link is to an unusual discussion on the site, which otherwise tries to stay focused on discussing nonfiction.Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138224440797825292006-01-25T13:27:00.000-08:002006-01-25T13:27:00.000-08:00Cynics should note that irritants receive more exp...Cynics should note that irritants receive more explicit attention than balms.<BR/>In the same way, dumb neighbours stick in the mind more than good ones.<BR/><BR/>Here's that excerpt I spoke of:<BR/>From 'A Force More Powerful' (Peter Ackerman & Jack Duvall)<BR/>It refers to the situation in Krakow just prior to the papal visit in 1979:<BR/><I>"In the days before the Pope came, there were chilling rumours about what would supposedly happen: Millions of peasants would swamp the city, sleeping anywhere, leaving behind 'disease, excrement and corpses'. Thousands would be crushed in the huge crowds. But when one writer ventured onto the streets, he found 'a different way of walking, a change in style and rhythm...the crowd undulated slowly, people moved without bumping into each other, made way for each other.... Civilians kept order;there was not a policeman in sight' A crowd had beheld itself and been strengthened by feeling its own presence."</I><BR/><BR/>My observation: 'Manners maketh (civilised) man.'<BR/><BR/>And Heinlein (drawing from Confucius?) often commented it was their absence that marked a civilisation's death knell. I have no idea what Diamond says on that in 'Collapse'.Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138223116698842722006-01-25T13:05:00.000-08:002006-01-25T13:05:00.000-08:00”My neighbors simply... cannot be as stupid as the...”My neighbors simply... cannot be as stupid as they look.”<BR/><BR/>To which I must add...<BR/>"They couldn't POSSIBLY be..."<BR/><BR/>The problem with being a cynic is that you are too often right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138217806098916282006-01-25T11:36:00.000-08:002006-01-25T11:36:00.000-08:00Stefan could you please do me a favor and click on...Stefan could you please do me a favor and click on the “other” button for identity, instead of putting your name in the middle or end of your post. You post good stuff but I hate having to hunt down every anonymous post to see if it is you. Or at least put your name at the beginning.<BR/><BR/>Br. DougAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138217352791472902006-01-25T11:29:00.000-08:002006-01-25T11:29:00.000-08:00Hey Brin I am really enjoying the posts you have b...Hey Brin I am really enjoying the posts you have been putting out, but I worry you may get burned out. Don’t forget about the next great novel or sequel to the transparent society.<BR/><BR/> I was recently given hope by reading about the Island of Ticopia In Jarrod Diamonds book Collapse. They had a successful zero population growth policy that has for thousands of years prevented an ecological disaster like that on Easter Island. So learning from mistakes and thinking about the future can work and make a livable society. Even in Stone Age pre-enlightenment societies. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Br.DougAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138212260102897212006-01-25T10:04:00.000-08:002006-01-25T10:04:00.000-08:00You know.. I do not comprehend the strange idea so...You know.. I do not comprehend the strange idea some have that nature is more stable than well... nature as we have reshaped it. First off, a forest and a city are still both part of the natural world. We just build more complex beaver damns and bird nests. Some species even manage, due to high levels of specialization, to out do us in specific, but more limited cases. Describing a city is outside nature is almost metaphysical.<BR/><BR/>The other problem with this is the supposed balance in "nature". Not quite. Its balanced in the same way one of those Jenga games is balanced or a house of cards. The only extra rule that keeps it from falling down is this one, "If something critical is removed, there is usually enough time for something else to come along and prop up the rest, before it all crashes down." Some ecosystems have many species that overlap, so losing one doesn't cause the whole system to collapse. The others just move into the gaps. In others... One single critical species is the keystone, like the coral reefs, without which virtually everything becomes vulnerable and dies. Cities and civilizations have the same flaws as anything else in nature, including the unfortunate tendency of things to start falling apart if 99 out of every 100 people decide to become telemarketers, instead of plumbers, and the remaining plumbers are not sufficient to fill the gap that leaves. Ecosystems are ecosystems, even if they are based on dollars and wires or grass and watering holes. When you start ignoring this fact, you invariably start to look at the system itself as the enemy, instead of the immediate problem. Ironically, the reason why we built aquaducts, buildings, libraries, roads, etc., was precisely because we found "nature" unpredictable, prone to causing us serious inconvenience and generally hostile. It is damn funny imho, when some one comes a long and says, "Man. Look at this mess we created, its unpredictable, prone to causing us serious inconvenience and in some cases generally hostile to survival!"<BR/><BR/>But its a bloody good joke, hoever unintended.Kagehihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09037921279395746555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138207242440649052006-01-25T08:40:00.000-08:002006-01-25T08:40:00.000-08:00”My neighbors simply... cannot be as stupid as the...<I>”My neighbors simply... cannot be as stupid as they look.”</I><BR/><BR/>I find myself having to repeat that all too often. The weird thing I've encountered is that sometimes they misinterpret this basic respect as a sign of weakness.<BR/><BR/><I>Oh, yes, some of our neighbors are fools, after all.</I><BR/><BR/>We all get to play the role of fool at various times; it has nothing to do with intelligence.<BR/><BR/>It is nice, however, that we live in a place where the damage that can be done by one fool *is* somewhat limited.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138204635619284962006-01-25T07:57:00.000-08:002006-01-25T07:57:00.000-08:00David,I've been saying the same thing for a couple...David,<BR/><BR/>I've been saying the same thing for a couple of years. I am a cynic and I am a sceptic - but I'm cynical even about cynicism and sceptical even about scepticism.<BR/><BR/>I think that the basic problem is that progress feels like the labours of Sysyphus - that rock moves achingly slowly (and a culture of instant gratification in both Britain and America really doesn't help) and we can't see round it to what's ahead. Also, when the rock slips backwards, that's big news and crushes people - and so is more noticable than the daily grind of pushing it up the hill.<BR/><BR/>It's only when you take a step back and look back over your shoulder that you realise just how far the rock has been pushed.<BR/><BR/>(Just to illustrate:<BR/>100 years ago, we had Apartheid, Jim Crow and were fighting over the right of women to vote.<BR/>200 years ago we had mass slavery<BR/>(I don't know much about the early 18th Century)<BR/>400 years ago we had the Holy Inquisition running rampant.<BR/>500 years ago, one of the world's most powerful empires (the Ottoman) was using captured and indoctrinated child slaves to run its armies (the Janisseries).<BR/><BR/>Finally, I think you place too much weight on The Enlightenment - yes, it was a big step. It just looks like the biggest because it was probably the most recent big philosophical step.<BR/><BR/>(And I don't usually praise civilisation until someone questions its value in the same way I don't praise drinking water unless some idiot questions its value.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138200977951209952006-01-25T06:56:00.000-08:002006-01-25T06:56:00.000-08:00Great post! I'm counting it among the Good Things...Great post! I'm counting it among the Good Things to have come along for me this morning. (Others include Tony at the coffee shop knowing my order, even though I don't go by there very often, and my daughter being in a good mood this morning.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138180550689066152006-01-25T01:15:00.000-08:002006-01-25T01:15:00.000-08:00David - great post! Classic yes- but!David - great post! Classic yes- but!reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06594313655855683716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138170508461162892006-01-24T22:28:00.000-08:002006-01-24T22:28:00.000-08:00A "compare and contrast" list of quotes about free...A "compare and contrast" list of quotes about freedom.<BR/><BR/>I'm posting this somewhat reluctantly, because I don't know all the sources. It is possible that some of the quotes near the bottom are out of context.<BR/><BR/>But still . . . even the ones up top are stirring.<BR/><BR/>Stefan<BR/><BR/>(Original found posted anonymously on "Firedoglake")<BR/><BR/>"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."<BR/>--Benjamin Franklin<BR/><BR/>"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."<BR/>--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.<BR/><BR/>"Be isolated, be ignored, be attacked, be in doubt, be frightened, but do not be silenced."<BR/>--Bertrand Russell<BR/><BR/>"When the people fear the government you have tyranny... when the government fears the people you have liberty."<BR/>--Thomas Jefferson<BR/><BR/>"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."<BR/>--Abraham Lincoln<BR/><BR/>"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."<BR/>--Theodore Roosevelt<BR/><BR/>"Whenever 'A' attempts by law to impose his moral standards upon 'B', 'A' is most likely a scoundrel."<BR/>--H.L. Mencken<BR/><BR/>"Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."<BR/>--Mayor Rudolph Giuliani<BR/><BR/>"Today American's would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."<BR/>--Henry Kissinger<BR/><BR/>"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy, but that could change."<BR/>--Dan Quayle<BR/><BR/>"There ought to be limits on freedom."<BR/>--George W. Bush<BR/><BR/>"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."<BR/>--George W. Bush<BR/><BR/>"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it."<BR/>--George W. Bush<BR/><BR/>"The government will make use of these powers only insofar as they are essential for carrying out vitally necessary measures...The number of cases in which an internal necessity exists for having recourse to such a law is in itself a limited one."<BR/>--Adolf Hitler<BR/><BR/>"I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."<BR/>--George H. W. Bush<BR/><BR/>"Oh, how I hate the phrase we have—a 'living document,’ we now have a Constitution that means whatever we want it to mean. The Constitution is not a living organism, for Pete's sake... We can take away rights just as we can grant new ones. Don't think that it's a one-way street."<BR/> --Antonin ScaliaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138169860539120522006-01-24T22:17:00.000-08:002006-01-24T22:17:00.000-08:00Dave:There are several out there. The ones I have ...Dave:<BR/><BR/>There are several out there. The ones I have at hand:<BR/><BR/>A good analysis of Crichton's reasoning by some actual climate scientists:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=74" REL="nofollow">http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=74</A><BR/><BR/>Chris Mooney's column points out that many of the scientists whose papers Crichton quotes as supporting his claims believe he is misinterpreting them!<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2005/02/06/checking_crichtons_footnotes/" REL="nofollow">http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2005/02/06/checking_crichtons_footnotes/</A><BR/><BR/><BR/>StefanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138168977229242902006-01-24T22:02:00.000-08:002006-01-24T22:02:00.000-08:00My wife is reading Crichton's STATE OF FEAR. Can ...My wife is reading Crichton's STATE OF FEAR. Can anyone offer a link to the best debunking site, for this piece of polemical self-indulgence?David Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138167691302138092006-01-24T21:41:00.000-08:002006-01-24T21:41:00.000-08:00Dr. Brin,Lovely response right above!I think the o...Dr. Brin,<BR/><BR/>Lovely response right above!<BR/><BR/>I think the only way out of the cynic mess is self-contemplation as you just did. Don't trust yourself about your own motivations! That way one sees the joke. If we can keep remembering that there is a joke, I think we notch down our indignation-addiction.<BR/><BR/>Scary bit about the brain scans! Perhaps this is the anodyne?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138159277733424632006-01-24T19:21:00.000-08:002006-01-24T19:21:00.000-08:00Michael, if only there were “nothing to be gained ...Michael, if only there were “nothing to be gained from cynicism.” <BR/><BR/>Alas, if so, why would it be the default position held by nearly every single person? Almost without exception? Even do-goody activists drip cynical interptretations of society, their enemies, and the gullibility of a dismally clueless public. Do you ever hear the word “civilization” spoken of in glowing terms? <BR/><BR/>Ever?<BR/><BR/>And, yes, please note! The very paragraph that I just wrote is... well... cynical!!!!<BR/><BR/>So, what is this sick-sweet trap that suckers in nearly all of us, differing only over degree, or details of dogma, or perhaps a bit of style?<BR/><BR/>Certainly cynicism was cooler on the shoolyard and playground. Fizzing enthusiasm was punished by sneers and curled lips and mockery. It begins there. (Though today, there is much less use of fists. So sayeth the rebel optimist.)<BR/><BR/>Then there is exceptionalism. Notice my maneuver. Am I a “ferocious optimist” out of pure conviction? Or because that niche is far less occupied? Giving me a wondrously well-supported excuse to heap a style of scorn that’s all my own, on all competing intellectuals, for their boring and unhelpful and insipid, me-too trait of cynicism? <BR/><BR/>Am I just doing what they do, only a bit more cleverly? <BR/><BR/>Instead of contempt for the masses, I exhibit <I>contempt for those who display contempt for the masses!</I> <BR/><BR/>Pretty clever, but is it honest?<BR/><BR/>Well, THIS message, analyzing my own trip, and clearly having fun doing so... maybe THIS is honest, hm? Have I risen above dismally predictable human nature <I>now?</I><BR/><BR/>Or is this yet another layer of preening? Showing off my “fitness” the way a peacock does, by dropping defenses and displaying gaudy handicaps (in this case “honest self-appraisal)? In other words, might even my honesty be part of the same old game?<BR/><BR/>No, there are no gurus or wise men. Sometimes wise guys. Sometimes even a few mature grownups, like George Marshall. But evidence indicates that we are all fools, with the wisest being those who realize it.<BR/><BR/>The beautiful thing, the thing that sometimes can be wise, is civilization.<BR/><BR/>--<BR/>PriMal, thanks! That MSNBC article fits nicely into the case I am making at: <BR/>http://www.davidbrin.com/addiction.htmlDavid Brinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14465315130418506525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138159054386877292006-01-24T19:17:00.000-08:002006-01-24T19:17:00.000-08:00According to Jared Diamond's Collapse, civilizatio...According to Jared Diamond's Collapse, civilizations usually fail at the height of their achievements and power. I am not saying that your outlook is wrong. I daresay that it may be right, but it is just one perspective among many. Yes, everything is working, but Hurricane Katrina and the East Coast blackout show that our underlying technological infrastructures are being allowed to decay. When the government fails to spend a measley $300 million to prevent $30 billion dollar messes, something is seriously wrong. All levels of government failed in New Orleans, not just the Federal. But then, it comes down to individuals. Everyone is generally doing his or her best to survive and eke out a living in this world. Most are too busy to bother about the big picture. They concern themselves with the immediate problem at hand. So then, you are caught in a quandry. Should I try to educate people about this or that problem that over time may become serious and hurt everyone? This sometimes is what leads to the downfall of a society - a number of small problems that gradually get worse, but the rate of change is below the radar screens of the society's leaders. One day they wake up and there are these insurmountable issues they missed that leads to their demise. This is documented history and fact. This is one way island civilizations die. The Earth has now become an island. Have we grown any wiser and learned from the Easter Islander's mistakes, or the mistakes of the Greenlanders?<BR/><BR/>Johnjbmoorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09751110750712243573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138158537943999422006-01-24T19:08:00.000-08:002006-01-24T19:08:00.000-08:00It is so wonderful to calmly ponder my carefully c...It is so wonderful to calmly ponder my carefully chosen street corner, with beautiful trees, working stop signs, nice cars, infrastructure, life, vibrance, and the shining sun. But is it my street corner that matters at all? Why not visit the street corner on top of the world, where from it all street corners are visible?<BR/><BR/>We talk about ID vs. Creationism, but we must flee back to our street corner. Our lives are constructed so frailly upon the machinations that give us the street corner in the first place. Of course I can appreciate anew everything that goes into the system, but I hardly need a street corner. How about a return to the nearby forest? I see a harmony there beyond any I could fathom on any street corner. Further, I see longevity that will outlive us.<BR/><BR/>Where are we taking our lessons from? We return to our street corner to fool ourselves once again to believing that it is all necessarily thus, that without all this we would indeed be thrust into chaos, unable to discuss what are so honored to discuss.<BR/><BR/>It is as if we form our own little cabal to defeat the obvious cabalists who want to rue the day with their ineffectual ruminations about an intelligent creator. When will the masses realize the irrelevance of such postulation, that we do not recieve our notions from without, but are responsible for them? To throw our hands up and say "uncle", that <I>someone</I> threw a curveball a little too difficult for us to <I>ever</I> discover so we should give up now and make our own version up that just happens to coincide nicely with certain religious dogma.<BR/><BR/>I agree, however profoundly upset I am to be arguing thus, that the issue is indeed one of method, that we should find the best possible course of action to counter the ludicrous accusations and formulations of IDers. The stinking comes from all the underhandedness, that we must think in order to undermine a group who is attempting to undermine us. We are stuck at a fairly low level, at which point the high road looks like haughtiness (as described before in the "we know better than you so you should listen to us" argument). In fact, the scientists are exactly right, and stating so in the most explicit and easy to identify terms has been rendered useless.<BR/><BR/>So my big question is: How do we destroy ID?<BR/><BR/>I may sound drastic, but something built in order to specifically undermine science without proposing a viable alternative cannot peacefully coexist with science, by definition. It must be eradicated, and we should be asking ourselves how.<BR/><BR/>To come full circle, I elucidated the first thoughts here to show the ever-complicated roots of cynicism. I can look anywhere to find the justification for anything. I need not rely on my street corner, and valuing it above nature is IMHO fairly foolish, and stinks a little of a sort of self-righteous indignation that everything must be so callously anthropomorphized.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138155089835837172006-01-24T18:11:00.000-08:002006-01-24T18:11:00.000-08:00@Kagehi --Responding to your progressions in the l...@Kagehi --<BR/><BR/>Responding to your progressions in the last comments section. I confess I was simply unaware of sites such as those you describe, which shut out those who challenge ideas or approach them with a new thought.<BR/><BR/>Although, I confess as well that it isn't at all surprising that the Internet contains insular groups. And, it still leaves me wondering if a friendly "let's prove you right" approach, without any sort of criticism at all about why the ideas are wrong, would help them get behind the doing of the *science*.Rob Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13115249244056328076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138153826106348772006-01-24T17:50:00.000-08:002006-01-24T17:50:00.000-08:00David,This is a great pick-me-up for anytime I'm f...David,<BR/><BR/>This is a great pick-me-up for anytime I'm feeling discouraged and indulging my inner misanthrope. It's always sobering to remember how bad things were for most people in the past, and how fragile yet resilient our civilization is. I think you should put this somewhere on your website so people can print it out.<BR/><BR/>By the way, did you get the email I sent you yesterday? I took a shot at rewriting part 2 of your ID essay. If you didn't get it, let me know and I'll resend it.<BR/><BR/>CharlesBig Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02475844932543383723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138152847465187402006-01-24T17:34:00.000-08:002006-01-24T17:34:00.000-08:00Quoth Brin:Go to a street corner, preferably one w...Quoth Brin:<BR/><I>Go to a street corner, preferably one with a very busy four (or twelve!) way stop signage, where people must negotiate traffic rules every second, with little hand-flicks and nods.</I><BR/><BR/>I've been meaning to refer you to an excerpt from the book 'A Force More Powerful' (which, unfortunately, I don't have to hand just now. I'll add it later, if anyone's interested). <BR/><BR/>It's an anecdote of what happened during Pope John Paul II's first visit to Poland (as pontiff!). The authorities of the day were... I suppose 'sulking' is the most polite description. Not quite game enough to restrict travel, they nonetheless tried to reduce the size of the audience by claiming that the mass influx of people to Warsaw would cause chaos and tragedy.<BR/><BR/>To press home their point, the police were called off the streets. (or was it the traffic lights suffering from a mysterious failure?)<BR/><BR/>Bereft of controls, guess what happened?<BR/><BR/>*Not* chaos! Instead, people 'found a new way of moving'. It arose quite spontaneously. And things chugged along just fine.<BR/><BR/>Not so dumb. (Not Poles, at least;-)<BR/><BR/>----<BR/>Off topic:<BR/><BR/>I had to have a slow, ironic laugh at dear George's comments on Iran (speaking at <A HREF="http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/bush-goes-on-the-offensive-over-wiretaps/2006/01/24/1138066793165.html" REL="nofollow">KSU</A>):<BR/><I>"And I'm concerned about a <B>non-transparent society's</B> desire to develop a nuclear weapon. The world cannot be put in a position where we can be blackmailed by a nuclear weapon."</I><BR/><BR/>What was that about the burgeoning secrecy rate in the US? O' lordy! (naive question: When has Iran stated it's intention to build a nuclear weapon? )<BR/><BR/>(and, to respond to General Michael Hayden's comment: "Had this [secret wiretap] program *not* been in effect prior to 9/11, you would have still been able to detect some of the 9/11 al-Qaeda operatives in the United States.")<BR/><BR/>@priMal: Good find!Tony Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14578160528746657971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587336.post-1138151937351919602006-01-24T17:18:00.000-08:002006-01-24T17:18:00.000-08:00Are we all hard-wired for indignation-high?-priMal...Are we all hard-wired for indignation-high?<BR/><BR/>-priMalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com